smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by smokeyjack on Apr 29, 2019 15:04:18 GMT -5
I always viewed him as a small ball 5, a floor spacer type, which is how most of the good teams play now... Agree with you Etomic! Could have given the team better flexibility vs teams that play small and like to attack slower Bigs, like how SMU took advantage of Govan and Mourning with their quicker, mobile, versatile Bigs. Could of also developed into the small ball Big that allows you to switch defensively 1-5. With Carter's transfer, the team potentially lost a lot of skill and roster versatility... Totally disagree. If you watch tape of Q, Tim or Alexander (who while two inches shorter than Carter is much more physically built and explosive), I’ll take any of the three over Carter athletically and relative to quickness...regardless of where you slot them on the floor. Don’t know what you thought you saw from Carter, but he was absolutely not quick. He was a slow, small 4 who could shoot or a really slow 3. He wasn’t physical enough as a rebounder or defender to ever be your principal big or 5. He looked exactly like the type of one-dimensional bench player we seem to be moving beyond. Versatile is literally the last word that came to mind when I watched him. He could shoot. Period. I didn’t see anything else there. And, sure, maybe he grows into this or that. But I’d say he was in the 10-11 on depth chart based on skill set, evidence to date, size, etc. I hope Carter thrives elsewhere, but he was a noticeably terrible defender on a really bad defensive team last season. That was a huge red flag and in no way suggested he was an eventual small ball lone big. You have tons of legit versatility blossoming in that dept with LeBlanc, so let’s not overdramatize the loss of a kid who knew he wasn’t going to play here.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 29, 2019 15:09:48 GMT -5
You must have been watching a different Hoyas team or only checked in 1 out of every 3 games. Nope, I watch every game at least 3 times. Please give examples of when Pat ran a play specifically to get our 5 a 3-pt shot. Even our pick and pops were typically in the 3-pt range and our guards tend not to look for the picker. Also, glad to have you back on the board after your 6 years hiatus but maybe you should check your attitude against other posters. We all have our own opinions and as of now, yours smells like ass. Okay everyone’s entitled to an opinion but it seems you’re ignoring reality. I don’t really care what mine smells like, all i care about it how it bears out. It’s easier to make things sound good than to make them sound right. I get a lot of you see this board as a popularity contest (posting more often doesn’t make your opinion any more valid) and it’s more fan-level discussion, but a lot of people always seem to forget you can be a fan and have intimate knowledge about what we’re talking about. We can agree to disagree all you want and I’m sorry you got offended (I can’t control how you react, that was my honest interpretation of your comment. Did I tell you you’re opinion stunk? Okay so who is the one with the attitude?) but I tend to rely on evidence. There is soo much film available to refute the point you made, so much so that it would be a poor use of time for me to provide examples when they’re readily available for you to find yourself. But of course, you won’t be able to find them if you’re not looking for them.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Apr 29, 2019 15:11:37 GMT -5
Agreed....and he was also offered by LSU, Oklahoma and Texas if I remember correctly, so I wouldn't use the fact that he didn't "make it" or "fit" at Georgetown to throw shade on the kid. Disappointed that we never got to see his potential--seems to be the type of big that is necessary to have on the roster in this era of college basketball. Can't imagine any coach's philosophy is to not want a big who can stretch the floor. Seemed to have a nice stroke in open practice last fall. Was a high academic kid, too. Wish him good luck. Also, shooting is more mental than physical at this level. It’s great that his shot looked the part, but we’ve had plenty of fake shooters over the years here. Also, we have other options for frontcourt floor stretchers. They also all seem to be better equipped to bang in he post. This I totally agree with... I liked Carter's potential as much as the next guy but I love when someone "looks" like a good shooter and don't put up the numbers. Yes Carter only had 9 3pointers all season but he shot 33% but hey the shot looked smooth... Sorry I will take Leblanc's ugly 5 for 7 last year every day....
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 29, 2019 15:15:03 GMT -5
Also, shooting is more mental than physical at this level. It’s great that his shot looked the part, but we’ve had plenty of fake shooters over the years here. Also, we have other options for frontcourt floor stretchers. They also all seem to be better equipped to bang in he post. This I totally agree with... I liked Carter's potential as much as the next guy but I love when someone "looks" like a good shooter and don't put up the numbers. Yes Carter only had 9 3pointers all season but he shot 33% but hey the shot looked smooth... Sorry I will take Leblanc's ugly 5 for 7 last year every day.... I am afraid those sample sizes are going to bite you in the a** in both cases.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 29, 2019 15:15:39 GMT -5
Nope, I watch every game at least 3 times. Please give examples of when Pat ran a play specifically to get our 5 a 3-pt shot. Even our pick and pops were typically in the 3-pt range and our guards tend not to look for the picker. Also, glad to have you back on the board after your 6 years hiatus but maybe you should check your attitude against other posters. We all have our own opinions and as of now, yours smells like ass. Okay everyone’s entitled to an opinion but it seems you’re ignoring reality. I don’t really care what mine smells like, all i care about it how it beats out. I get a lot of you see this board as a popularity contest (posting more often doesn’t make your opinion any more valid) and it’s more fan-level discussion, but a lot of people always seem to forget you can be a fan and have intimate knowledge about what we’re talking about. We can agree to disagree all you want and I’m sorry you got offended but I tend to rely on evidence. There is soo much film available to refute the point you made, so much so that it would be a poor use of time for me to provide examples when they’re readily available for you to find yourself. But of course, you won’t be able to find gem if you’re not looking for gem. Trust me, this place isn't a popularity contest based on sheer number of posts. Otherwise TJI, Glide, and a lot others would be running this place. Also, maybe you should check your preconceived notions at the door and you'd see that there are a lot of VERY knowledgeable posters on this board (and no, I am not talking about myself). I was planning on rewatching some of the BE games this week so I'll keep an eye out for designed plays to get our 5 a 3. Not sure about you but finding designed play is not a "gem". Usually the burden of proof is on the accuser though. If you want to rely on evidence, what do you think Pat wants from his centers on offense?
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Apr 29, 2019 15:22:54 GMT -5
I wish the guy well. I wanted to see more of him last year. I thought he could have contributed more if given game minutes early in the season. He was in my opinion at least as good skillwise as Mourning but coach needed to play Mourning for reasons, I believe. Never the less. It opens up a spot and he will have 3 years to develop himself somewhere.
Competition will be stiff on the team for minutes!!
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 29, 2019 15:25:38 GMT -5
Okay everyone’s entitled to an opinion but it seems you’re ignoring reality. I don’t really care what mine smells like, all i care about it how it beats out. I get a lot of you see this board as a popularity contest (posting more often doesn’t make your opinion any more valid) and it’s more fan-level discussion, but a lot of people always seem to forget you can be a fan and have intimate knowledge about what we’re talking about. We can agree to disagree all you want and I’m sorry you got offended but I tend to rely on evidence. There is soo much film available to refute the point you made, so much so that it would be a poor use of time for me to provide examples when they’re readily available for you to find yourself. But of course, you won’t be able to find gem if you’re not looking for gem. Trust me, this place isn't a popularity contest based on sheer number of posts. Otherwise TJI, Glide, and a lot others would be running this place. Also, maybe you should check your preconceived notions at the door and you'd see that there are a lot of VERY knowledgeable posters on this board (and no, I am not talking about myself). I was planning on rewatching some of the BE games this week so I'll keep an eye out for designed plays to get our 5 a 3. Not sure about you but finding designed play is not a "gem". Usually the burden of proof is on the accuser though. If you want to rely on evidence, what do you think Pat wants from his centers on offense? Yeah again, post count doesn’t be make points more valid. They aren’t preconceived notions, I’ve been following this board since 2004... And that was a typo (“them”). Off the top of my head we even did it a few times in Govan’s last game (Harvard) and most every game he played at MSG, just to point out a few. And usually yeah the burden is on the accuser, but I’m not accusing you I’m telling you you’re mistaken. If you actually watch most games like you said I’m not sure how you haven’t seen the play in our playbook. We don’t need to run it 5x every game it to be a feature of a stretch-5 offensive set. There is really no evidence that will indicate definitively what Pat wants from his centers on defense (outside of his own admission), but it sounds like he’s going to be expecting them to do it all just like he did. I’d bet he’s partial towards bigs who can do the things he was able to. But to answer your question I think the most important thing is to have a motor, period. At this level, playing with energy and intensity is a great equalizer. It also seems he’d like his bigs to be more mobile than in the past but one recruiting class isn’t enough to amount to evidence of anything. I’d also point out that Pat probably has certain qualities he ideally wants in those bigs, but his vision for actually attracting what he wants can be slightly different, in practice.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2019 15:26:50 GMT -5
This was not at all what Wponds stated in his post, no one is questioning PE's vision for his bigs... Here's his post... Literally, what? “Trying to do with his bigs” and “vision for his bigs” are essentially the same thing. You’re the one who questioned it. Oh, I guess you want me to actually believe you were genuinely asking the question rather than shifting the burden of proof... I never questioned it, I just asked Wponds what he thought PE's vision was for the bigs on the team... I genuinely wanted to know his opinion...
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 29, 2019 15:28:02 GMT -5
I never questioned it, I just asked Wponds what he thought PE's vision was for the bigs on the team... I genuinely wanted to know his opinion... Okay, fine maybe I was being too cynical. I guess I misinterpreted it because as you pointed out, we have 3 bigs coming in in very similar molds. I took that as what he meant.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 29, 2019 15:35:53 GMT -5
I liked what I saw of him in his little bit he played while Tre was out. Disappointing if true, but can understand if he felt recruited over.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 29, 2019 15:45:39 GMT -5
Just recruited over between Alexander and Gardner. You can’t have 4 wings on the floor. Kid wants to play and likely knew that wasn’t really going to happen at GU. He was No. 12 on my pecking order of current 14 and two below him were frosh, so totally makes sense. Neither Alexander or Gardner plays Carter's position in my view... Having a pecking order set before May seems crazy to me ... I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2019 15:57:38 GMT -5
Neither Alexander or Gardner plays Carter's position in my view... Having a pecking order set before May seems crazy to me ... I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations. I think it'll be a mistake to play Wahab at the 4, do you really think he's ready to guard players like Diallo from PC or Samuel from Nova or the many smaller line-ups teams will play next season? If he's playing the 4 one of his strengths in rim protection(which I think is overrated) gets negated...
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Apr 29, 2019 16:01:44 GMT -5
To be frank, I did not see enough out of Grayson to feel badly about this departure. Of the 8 returning players on the roster, I would have selected Grayson if I was forced to cut one from the team.
It's too bad, but as discussed in the projected minutes thread, there simply isn't any quality minutes to go around past the top 9 players. For example, there were entire conference games when Blair and Carter did not see the floor last season, and they were battling to be the presumptive 10th guy off the bench.
It's probably a mutual decision and best for Grayson's development that he move on - he'll get a lot more pride and gratification moving to a team where he can play a bigger, more integral role.
I wish him all the best - seemed like a great kid.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 29, 2019 16:06:16 GMT -5
Neither Alexander or Gardner plays Carter's position in my view... Having a pecking order set before May seems crazy to me ... I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations. It is a good point. Do we have any pure 4s? I guess we could discuss what a pure 4 is. A wing with more size who can post up effectively and rebound successfully vs. an athletic wing who can guard and shoot from the perimeter? Josh seems to me to be a combo 3/4. He did try some post up moves later in the year with some level of success. Josh certainly is athletic enough to guard multiple positions. I do remember how shocked I was when a forward for Seton Hall simply out-jumped him for a rebound.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Apr 29, 2019 16:08:13 GMT -5
I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations. I think it'll be a mistake to play Wahab at the 4, do you really think he's ready to guard players like Diallo from PC or Samuel from Nova or the many smaller line-ups teams will play next season? If he's playing the 4 one of his strengths in rim protection(which I think is overrated) gets negated... I don't disagree that Q would struggle covering some of those smaller "4" on the perimeter in the league. Against those line-ups I would think you could use Alexander and Jamorko for some minutes behind Josh at the 4. Against teams that want to play a bigger lineup, like Xavier did at times last year, Q might be an option at that 4 spot. If those occasions arise, other teams may have an issue covering him in the post and might give the Hoyas a nice high/low option with Q and Yurt. While I agree that more college teams play small lineups than ever now, Coach Ewing seems to like to try to take advantage of match ups when possible so I think you might see some different lineups this year.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Apr 29, 2019 16:09:37 GMT -5
I wish the young man well. What time he was with the Hoyas he represented himself and the team well.
Where ever he lands that team will be getting a fine young man and potentially a good player.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 29, 2019 16:14:03 GMT -5
I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations. I think it'll be a mistake to play Wahab at the 4, do you really think he's ready to guard players like Diallo from PC or Samuel from Nova or the many smaller line-ups teams will play next season? If he's playing the 4 one of his strengths in rim protection(which I think is overrated) gets negated... Wahab can't play the four. I'll repeat it for those in the back Wahab CAN'T PLAY THE FOUR. You are what position you can defend. Wahab would struggle with lateral quickness and perimeter awareness necessary to defend on the perimeter. He would get lost on cross screens, slip screens, flare screens, etc that you have to defend when defending skilled/stretch Fours. He got eaten alive by EJ Jarvis (Sidwell Friends) whose skill set and size is actually quite similar to Grayson Carter this past high school season. Etomic also brings up solid point that one of his strength is rim protection and that would all but be eliminated by having him try to defend the other teams four man. I love Wahab and think he will surprise a ton of folks this upcoming season but he's a Center and a Center only....
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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Apr 29, 2019 16:18:13 GMT -5
It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to envision the types of players who will play the 4 next year. Leblanc and Kaleb Johnson played almost all of the PF minutes last year down the stretch. Both are kids without great height, but with good mobility, toughness, positioning, and touch around the rim. Very easy to see Galen effectively filling the Kaleb role next year, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gardner some at that spot as well down the road. I agree that Wahab is not a 4 at this stage of his career.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 29, 2019 16:18:52 GMT -5
I wish Grayson the best and it is too bad it did not work out for him at Georgetown. Seemed to be a really good kid. It does leave the roster with a lot of "5's" (centers) and not too many 4's (power forwards) I always thought Grayson was best suited to play the 4. I expect Josh to start at the 4 this year and get a lot of minutes, but neither Alexander or Gardner are really 4's. They are more small forwards. I had thought Gardner was closer to 6'4" or 6'5", so he is more of a 2/3 combo. I guess if they feel Q can play some power forward as a freshman we will be Ok, but it probably does changes some rotations. It is a good point. Do we have any pure 4s? I guess we could discuss what a pure 4 is. A wing with more size who can post up effectively and rebound successfully vs. an athletic wing who can guard and shoot from the perimeter? Josh seems to me to be a combo 3/4. He did try some post up moves later in the year with some level of success. Josh certainly is athletic enough to guard multiple positions. I do remember how shocked I was when a forward for Seton Hall simply out-jumped him for a rebound. Grayson was the closest player to being a true Four man on the roster. He has some post game that he demonstrated in high school and could step out and shoot in PnP and flare screen situations. Because of roster construction, and needed physical development, he never got to demonstrate it this past season...
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 29, 2019 16:36:55 GMT -5
College basketball has gone like the pros- rosters are in constant need of upgrades. Coaches are paid handsomely to immediately win at all costs. Fifth years, transfers, JUCOs and foreigners are all there for the taking. Long live roster stability and the “student athlete”
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