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Post by jld54 on Aug 20, 2017 21:24:44 GMT -5
At best this is a poorly sourced article with as you say no real hook/substance and is a spin piece pushing a narrative. Just like the current fake news "unnamed sources" reporting.
And with all due respect Michael Graham is hardly a credible source. He blew the chance that GU and JT2 gave him and left after one year after admittedly blowing off his academics.
I understand that PE needs to sell himself and the program, but the evidence to date strongly suggests that he is doing this as he has brought in some good players under very tying circumstances. Bottom line is winning in an honest manner, graduating players and hopefully some top guys into the pros.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 20, 2017 21:48:34 GMT -5
At best this is a poorly sourced article with as you say no real hook/substance and is a spin piece pushing a narrative. An article that gets quotes from Ewing, Lee Reed, 2 NBA coaches, Reggie Williams, Michael Graham, Don Reid, Trey Mines, Keith Williams and tried to get quotes from JT2 is not "poorly sourced". Thompson Center has design flaws?
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Post by jld54 on Aug 20, 2017 22:01:42 GMT -5
The entire thrust of the article is to suggest that PE has no interest in recruiting, hence he is failing at an essential part of his job.
But the actual evidence is that he is working hard and has already had some success in getting 4 guys in plus keeping Walker in the fold under very trying circumstances. The contra claim is based on an unnamed "person familiar with the thinking" of an unnamed recruit. The recruit's alleged statement is belied by the publically known facts of Ewing's statement of his plan for the offense. That is poorly sourced in my book.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Aug 20, 2017 23:11:47 GMT -5
Jld, I think the Post is an excellent newspaper and does not provide "fake news." I also think the article has plenty of quotes, and unnamed sources are not necessarily without value. The clearly stated proposition that Patrick is not working with the AAU guys may or may not be true....but a major AAU coach in the DMV is quoted on the record. If you have information to the contrary I would love to hear it (seriously I would!!!) I am rooting hard for Patrick, as we all are. I hope he becomes a great recruiter and develops a strong DMV pipeline of talent. BUt the article , unfortunately, raises certain issues. Time will tell how serious they are . NONE of us know the answers right now.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 21, 2017 7:56:17 GMT -5
Seems to me you're being a bit sensitive here, the article isn’t well written and it’s not flattering to PE but I don’t think it’s a hit piece.. Especially when it’s PE’s own words that raise eyebrows.. Saying you want to play an NBA style isn't an offensive philosophy or system in my view.. There isn't one prevailing system being run in the NBA.. You rant on the writer talking about flying but PE is quoted saying this about flying.. “The biggest challenge,” he says now. “Flying all over the place, goddamn!” Also what about the named sources in the article like Reggie Williams, Jeff Van Gundy, Steve Clifford & local guy Keith Williams? All of their quotes basically say PE needs to sell himself /Gtown in order for him to be successful.. Should we discount what they had to say too? Not sure why you brought Waters up but PE has done well recruiting wise thus far especially in shoring up the 2017 class however I think it’s legit to wonder how it’ll work out long-term.. This article doesn’t paint a pretty picture.. I thought the "kiss the ring" premise is something PE should have kept to himself because it could be viewed as dismissive.. Like it or not the world of aau plays a big part in recruiting and the DMV is the NUMBER 1 recruiting area in the country, if some of what was written in the article is true he may have made his job harder.. The issue with the well regarded names sources is the way in which they were used, as if they were supporting evidence the Ewing wasn't currently selling or trying to sell the program. The sources mentioned weren't making comments on Ewings last four months as coach, just noting in general that that's what's necessary. Comments many, if not all, had made the week he was hired. Presenting old information as new in the case was done seemingly intentionally to paint a picture of all these people questioning what he has done as coach so far, which doesn't seem to be the case. Even the kiss the ring comment was placed awkwardly where it could be used in reference to just JT Jr and MJ or imply the recruiting scene as well. People will read into what they like which could potentially be unfair. I wouldn't say this was a hit piece but it certainly was a story that had no real hook and used either flimsy or old information to spin a specific narrative to make it a story. Which quotes were made at the time PE was hired Sleepy? I couldn't find any of them in the articles thread that was started after the hire was made.. To me you can't say "if not all" either because why would Keith Williams say PE was "unapproachable" right after he was hired? To me it's a big stretch to think the kiss the ring comment was meant for JT2 or especially Jordan when Ewing asks "did I ever kiss Michael's ring? For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm..
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Aug 21, 2017 9:39:19 GMT -5
The issue with the well regarded names sources is the way in which they were used, as if they were supporting evidence the Ewing wasn't currently selling or trying to sell the program. The sources mentioned weren't making comments on Ewings last four months as coach, just noting in general that that's what's necessary. Comments many, if not all, had made the week he was hired. Presenting old information as new in the case was done seemingly intentionally to paint a picture of all these people questioning what he has done as coach so far, which doesn't seem to be the case. Even the kiss the ring comment was placed awkwardly where it could be used in reference to just JT Jr and MJ or imply the recruiting scene as well. People will read into what they like which could potentially be unfair. I wouldn't say this was a hit piece but it certainly was a story that had no real hook and used either flimsy or old information to spin a specific narrative to make it a story. Which quotes were made at the time PE was hired Sleepy? I couldn't find any of them in the articles thread that was started after the hire was made.. To me you can't say "if not all" either because why would Keith Williams say PE was "unapproachable" right after he was hired? To me it's a big stretch to think the kiss the ring comment was meant for JT2 or especially Jordan when Ewing asks "did I ever kiss Michael's ring? For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.. Are you saying that Reggie Williams, Michael Graham, Steve Clifford, and Jeff Van Gundy have both been privy and interested enough in the program the last 4 months that their concerns are new and based on his time as a coach? As for Keith Williams, you are cherry picking his quote as he followed up with he has loosened up in the months since. " For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.." Based on how it was written, it did that for everyone, no matter what that person was thinking. And that is my issue.
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Post by jld54 on Aug 21, 2017 9:41:37 GMT -5
"For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.."
In addition to keeping Walker and bringing in 4 more guys in or after the late signing period, PE has also assembled a staff from scratch, has given several media interviews, and -- like it or not -- has made decisions re: next year's schedule. He has also been seen on GU social media meeting with students on campus. And I am sure that he has doing a lot behind the scenes, as any NCAA D1 coach does.
So, please tell us what else should have been accomplished in the past 4 months? People seems to have a very short memory. Five months ago we were the laughing stock of the BE, losing twice to SJU in a week and losing to DePaul in a horrific fashion. We then lost a top 30 recruit in Waters, who abandoned the program via social media announcement.
Again, I will wait to see how the team does, how he recruits, etc., before passing judgment.
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Post by centercourt400s on Aug 21, 2017 9:59:25 GMT -5
At best this is a poorly sourced article with as you say no real hook/substance and is a spin piece pushing a narrative. Just like the current fake news "unnamed sources" reporting. I think a definition of "fake news" is in order here. A good one I found is "Fake news refers to false information or propaganda published under the guise of being authentic news." Simple and to the point. The article is not false, as evidenced by the fact that none of the principles have disputed it in any way that we know of, and by the way it fits with the general circumstances regarding Ewing's hiring that many fans are aware of. Thus it is not an example of "fake news" despite the use of some unnamed sources and hearsay. I'm confident that the statements made by the unnamed sources were in fact said. The problem I have is when readers take those statements as proof of Ewing either not having an offensive plan or not telling anyone about it. Evidence from other recruit's on the record statements exists that Ewing has talked about his offensive plans with recruits, and the early results back this up. So who is more credible here, Ewing, or an unnamed teenager as reported by an unnamed source?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 21, 2017 10:05:00 GMT -5
Which quotes were made at the time PE was hired Sleepy? I couldn't find any of them in the articles thread that was started after the hire was made.. To me you can't say "if not all" either because why would Keith Williams say PE was "unapproachable" right after he was hired? To me it's a big stretch to think the kiss the ring comment was meant for JT2 or especially Jordan when Ewing asks "did I ever kiss Michael's ring? For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.. Are you saying that Reggie Williams, Michael Graham, Steve Clifford, and Jeff Van Gundy have both been privy and interested enough in the program the last 4 months that their concerns are new and based on his time as a coach? As for Keith Williams, you are cherry picking his quote as he followed up with he has loosened up in the months since. " For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.." Based on how it was written, it did that for everyone, no matter what that person was thinking. And that is my issue. I'm not saying anything, I asked you to provide proof that the quotes attributed in the article to the people above are old.. Didn't cherry pick the K. Williams quote, I used that portion to show you that it couldn't have been an old quote as you claimed it could be in your previous post..
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Post by veilside21 on Aug 21, 2017 10:12:10 GMT -5
dont understand the hate on PE for the recruitment part, we just got pickett out of nowhere and we still have doubts just because we dont have early commits compared to other schools doesnt mean he isnt doing a great job at it . other schools have built a relationship to the players they got some maybe about 3 or5 years ago. PE just stepped into this league and we expect him to be a recruiting genius.
Honestly having one and done is a thing but look at gonzaga once you start winning people will come to play for you.
I will wait until PE shows a year or 2 of coaching before i judge him
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 21, 2017 10:33:19 GMT -5
"For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.." In addition to keeping Walker and bringing in 4 more guys in or after the late signing period, PE has also assembled a staff from scratch, has given several media interviews, and -- like it or not -- has made decisions re: next year's schedule. He has also been seen on GU social media meeting with students on campus. And I am sure that he has doing a lot behind the scenes, as any NCAA D1 coach does. So, please tell us what else should have been accomplished in the past 4 months? People seems to have a very short memory. Five months ago we were the laughing stock of the BE, losing twice to SJU in a week and losing to DePaul in a horrific fashion. We then lost a top 30 recruit in Waters, who abandoned the program via social media announcement. Again, I will wait to see how the team does, how he recruits, etc., before passing judgment. I believe he should have organized a basketball camp, even if it were kids 8th grade or younger.. Invite all the local aau programs to attend, that would have been a nice olive branch to the local area.. Mullins did this at St. Johns.. Folks can read the Strength&Conditioning thread to see my views in this regard.. You point out that he hired a staff but the truth is the complete staff has yet to be announced.. The fact that he still isn't active on social media after acknowledging that with this job he should be isn't a good look either imo.. This is highlighted even more when none of the staff are active on social media.. For comparison google Paul Weir who's the new coach at New Mexico, go to the news section of the feed and read the articles on him since he got hired in April..
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 21, 2017 10:45:01 GMT -5
The article is clearly filled with misinformation.
When the air conditioning makes it too cold, you don't turn DOWN the thermostat; you turn the temperature UP.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Aug 21, 2017 10:56:05 GMT -5
All this just shows how desperately we need the season to begin--assuming of course that we have enough healthy bodies and an actual schedule for the preconference.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 21, 2017 11:02:27 GMT -5
And with all due respect Michael Graham is hardly a credible source. He blew the chance that GU and JT2 gave him and left after one year after admittedly blowing off his academics. So, a decision he made 30+ yrs ago destroys his credibility even until today? Hmm...
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FrazierFanatic
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 21, 2017 11:28:41 GMT -5
And with all due respect Michael Graham is hardly a credible source. He blew the chance that GU and JT2 gave him and left after one year after admittedly blowing off his academics. So, a decision he made 30+ yrs ago destroys his credibility even until today? Hmm... I believe Michael may have made more recent mistakes as well🤔 In any event, I would certainly agree that both sides of the Patrick hiring argument can read the article to support their side. There is certainly more that he needs to do, whether social media, relationship building, not eating tuna sandwiches (you do NOT want that on your breath when meeting recruits and their families!) But he does say he is reaching out to local contacts, so I believe him. I think he believes he can differentiate between working with local coaches and programs vs. "kissing the rings" of handlers. Time will tell on that. Patrick's strength right now is not just his playing career. It is the unquestionable fact that he KNOWS not only exactly what it takes to get to the NBA, but also what it takes to be successful, and even to star, at that level. That can be a huge selling point with recruits, since most of them (usually misguidedly) believe they are going to the League. So communicating directly with them about those points is critical. The rest will come with time and experience.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Aug 21, 2017 12:22:18 GMT -5
Unfortunately, a lot of these kids are not going to want to hear what it really takes to get to and succeed in the league - it will not fit in with the line of bull they've been feed all through their AAU careers by their handlers, coaches, etc., as well as a lot of recruiters. They will take it as "he doesn't think I'm good enough to make it, so why bother with him - the coach last week told me I was the greatest thing since sliced bread". The right minded kid will take it the right way but it's the same dynamic as how kids respond to being academically challenged as opposed to barely having to go to class.
The good side of doing it this way is it weeds out a lot of the kids who are not willing to commit to doing the work.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Aug 21, 2017 12:24:38 GMT -5
I believe he should have organized a basketball camp, even if it were kids 8th grade or younger.. Invite all the local aau programs to attend, that would have been a nice olive branch to the local area.. Mullins did this at St. Johns.. I see that Chris Mullin hosted a camp in 2016. Did he host one in 2015 the year he was hired? You point out that he hired a staff but the truth is the complete staff has yet to be announced.. www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062617aaa.html
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Aug 21, 2017 13:07:26 GMT -5
Are you saying that Reggie Williams, Michael Graham, Steve Clifford, and Jeff Van Gundy have both been privy and interested enough in the program the last 4 months that their concerns are new and based on his time as a coach? As for Keith Williams, you are cherry picking his quote as he followed up with he has loosened up in the months since. " For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.." Based on how it was written, it did that for everyone, no matter what that person was thinking. And that is my issue. I'm not saying anything, I asked you to provide proof that the quotes attributed in the article to the people above are old.. Didn't cherry pick the K. Williams quote, I used that portion to show you that it couldn't have been an old quote as you claimed it could be in your previous post.. I didn't mean to imply those specific quotes were old, just that the content of them were discussed ad nauseam when he was first hired, not based on any actual actions or behavior as coach at Georgetown, as they were presented.
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Post by jld54 on Aug 21, 2017 13:11:10 GMT -5
I am glad that PE devoted his initial efforts to replenishing a depleted roster with good players and to putting a staff together. Arranging a summer camp would be very low on the "to do" list, at least at the start.
And admitting that PE hired a staff, but claiming it wasn't announced yet (when in fact it was announced formally several weeks ago) shows a bit of a hypercritical attitude.
It seems that, as in everything these days, there is highly polarized view of GU hoops and PE. I am neither a true believer or a hater -- just a 45+ year Hoya fan willing to see how it shakes out.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Aug 21, 2017 13:13:52 GMT -5
"For me the article helped to confirm what I was already thinking which is that outside of recruiting, not much else has been accomplished since PE has been at the helm.." In addition to keeping Walker and bringing in 4 more guys in or after the late signing period, PE has also assembled a staff from scratch, has given several media interviews, and -- like it or not -- has made decisions re: next year's schedule. He has also been seen on GU social media meeting with students on campus. And I am sure that he has doing a lot behind the scenes, as any NCAA D1 coach does. So, please tell us what else should have been accomplished in the past 4 months? People seems to have a very short memory. Five months ago we were the laughing stock of the BE, losing twice to SJU in a week and losing to DePaul in a horrific fashion. We then lost a top 30 recruit in Waters, who abandoned the program via social media announcement. Again, I will wait to see how the team does, how he recruits, etc., before passing judgment. I believe he should have organized a basketball camp, even if it were kids 8th grade or younger.. Invite all the local aau programs to attend, that would have been a nice olive branch to the local area.. Mullins did this at St. Johns.. Folks can read the Strength&Conditioning thread to see my views in this regard.. You point out that he hired a staff but the truth is the complete staff has yet to be announced.. The fact that he still isn't active on social media after acknowledging that with this job he should be isn't a good look either imo.. This is highlighted even more when none of the staff are active on social media.. For comparison google Paul Weir who's the new coach at New Mexico, go to the news section of the feed and read the articles on him since he got hired in April.. He was hired in April, was he not? You wanted him to spend the first few month of his job as coach of this program on organizing a basketball camp, getting sell through internally, finding someone to run it and set it up, and then promoting it locally? That really seems like a good use of time and resources to you? Didn't JTIII used to have a basketball camp on campus anyway? How did that turn out.
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