|
Post by ewingitrust on Aug 2, 2017 11:19:35 GMT -5
It is August. Some want to gripe about anything. Ronny Thompson? lol. Talk about a reach. Its one game. One game. People griped about the staff because they are so impatient. Ewing exhibited patience and diligence. He hires a solid staff. People griped about the recruiting class, not fast enough, we need a staff in place. Can't land anybody. Ewing lands a solid recruiting class with barely anytime to recruit when he got hired. Ewing decides to pull out of this game, with a new system, new staff, some new recruits and players playing in a new system. He wants to get his guys ready. You don't feed steak to a baby. Maybe coaching Ewing feels getting pasted by MSU won't do us any good. Baby steps. Ironically, Coach Izzo, known for grueling schedules, had second thoughts and apologized to his team last year for having such a grueling schedule. Thought his team didn't have enough time to practice and develop. Now, maybe that wasn't a reason for pulling out because we don't know the full schedule. We will eventually. Maybe we will have some tougher games mixed in with some cupcakes. We don't know Baby Steps. Patience. Trust Coach Ewing. Seems like people want find fault with anything Coach Ewing decides. Outside of maybe the Ronny Thompson hire, Coach Ewing has done an admirable job up to this point considering the circumstances. Go Hoyas! Great Post the_way! The Ronny Thompson hire doesn't bother me, but I agree wholeheartedly with everything else you stated. GO HOYAS! I think you spoke for alot of us with that post.
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Aug 2, 2017 11:26:21 GMT -5
Actually, it's not. It would have been three games. MSU was just the first round matchup. Well, one tournament. Coach has his reasons. He has made sound decisions thus far, and we just have to trust the coach on this one.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Aug 2, 2017 11:30:38 GMT -5
This is a good way to look at it but think of the gnashing of teeth around here when after that first few weeks of OOC (when Portland would be) we were 1-3 vs a 3-0 record. Not that I am saying it's a valid reason but even if we would end the OOC with a winning record either way, spirits and morale would be much higher with the 3-0 start then the 1-3 start. Personally, I'd be fine with the 1-3 start because I'd be expecting it but damn would this place be unbearable. This place is always unbearable. People were calling for the coach's head when we got a 4 seed in the tournament in 2015. That's not a justification.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Aug 2, 2017 11:33:42 GMT -5
This is a good way to look at it but think of the gnashing of teeth around here when after that first few weeks of OOC (when Portland would be) we were 1-3 vs a 3-0 record. Not that I am saying it's a valid reason but even if we would end the OOC with a winning record either way, spirits and morale would be much higher with the 3-0 start then the 1-3 start. Personally, I'd be fine with the 1-3 start because I'd be expecting it but damn would this place be unbearable. This place is always unbearable. People were calling for the coach's head when we got a 4 seed in the tournament in 2015. That's not a justification. I would also imagine team morale (with fans booing and chanting fire the coach) was significantly down as well. That is a justification. Simply put, the program needs to stop losing. Right now the only way to make that happen is decrease the level of competition early.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 2, 2017 11:41:59 GMT -5
This is a good way to look at it but think of the gnashing of teeth around here when after that first few weeks of OOC (when Portland would be) we were 1-3 vs a 3-0 record. Not that I am saying it's a valid reason but even if we would end the OOC with a winning record either way, spirits and morale would be much higher with the 3-0 start then the 1-3 start. Personally, I'd be fine with the 1-3 start because I'd be expecting it but damn would this place be unbearable. This place is always unbearable. People were calling for the coach's head when we got a 4 seed in the tournament in 2015. That's not a justification. The odds of us losing 3 games in a row this year are very high, so even if it doesn't happen in the OOC, it's likely to happen anyway. It's totally unreasonable for fans to not be prepared for this; but I know people will complain anyway.
|
|
iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
|
Post by iowa80 on Aug 2, 2017 11:44:06 GMT -5
Actually, it's not. It would have been three games. MSU was just the first round matchup. Well, one tournament. Coach has his reasons. He has made sound decisions thus far, and we just have to trust the coach on this one. I'm not real clear on what we're trusting here. We trust the coach on selecting his assistants. We trust the coach on his recruiting targets. We trust the coach on optimal use of personnel. All true. Are we trusting the coach's assessment of his own players and thinking not getting walloped is preferable to rather noticeably backing out of highly visible tournament? Are we trusting the coach to know that this won't say anything to his players about his assessment of them or their degree of preparation? I think that's probably in the ballpark. But, as fans, there's nothing wrong with being disappointed and expressing that disappointment.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,966
|
Post by EtomicB on Aug 2, 2017 11:50:46 GMT -5
So you're saying that you think we sat on something since mid-April and let fans buy tickets but didn't tell the organizers or fans? If ESPN or PK80 knew we'd be out, they'd announce it the next day. Yes I'm saying they might have known this is a strong possibility or it was Ewing's intentions. Like I said in a previous post, we don't have a clue how long the powers that be at Georgetown have been negotiating with Nike/ESPN, possibly DePaul and others has been going on. With so many involved, these had to be very complex negotiations to get out of this tournament. Based on Reed's statement, ESPN might have been the party that made this exit from the PK80 harder to navigate and future promises probably has to be made. Ewing didn't wake up yesterday and say "you know what, I don't want to play in that tournament anymore". I still don't see why you wouldn't want to play in the tourney, its basketball.. You make some well reasoned points but in the end the powers that be decided to duck out on playing basketball, it's hard for me to get past that.. For the record I support PE & want him to do well but there were/are a lot of issues with the program that need to be addressed.. Talking about those issues isn't a slight to PE..
|
|
the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
|
Post by the_way on Aug 2, 2017 11:56:37 GMT -5
Well, one tournament. Coach has his reasons. He has made sound decisions thus far, and we just have to trust the coach on this one. I'm not clear on what we're trusting here. We trust the coach on selecting his assistants. We trust the coach on his recruiting targets. We trust the coach on optimal use of personnel. All true. Are we trusting the coach's assessment of his own players and thinking not getting walloped is preferable to rather noticeably backing out of highly visible tournament? Are we trusting the coach to know that this won't say anything to his players about his assessment of them or their degree of preparation? We don't know why he pulled out and what game or tournament has been substituted for it. It is difficult to draw any conclusions since all we received was a statement. Curious to see what the OOC schedule will look like, and what teams and/or tournaments we play.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Aug 2, 2017 11:56:39 GMT -5
Yes I'm saying they might have known this is a strong possibility or it was Ewing's intentions. Like I said in a previous post, we don't have a clue how long the powers that be at Georgetown have been negotiating with Nike/ESPN, possibly DePaul and others has been going on. With so many involved, these had to be very complex negotiations to get out of this tournament. Based on Reed's statement, ESPN might have been the party that made this exit from the PK80 harder to navigate and future promises probably has to be made. Ewing didn't wake up yesterday and say "you know what, I don't want to play in that tournament anymore". I still don't see why you wouldn't want to play in the tourney, its basketball.. You make some well reasoned points but in the end the powers that be decided to duck out on playing basketball, it's hard for me to get past that.. For the record I support PE & want him to do well but there were/are a lot of issues with the program that need to be addressed.. Talking about those issues isn't a slight to PE.. There is a difference between wanting to play the best night in night out and knowing whats best for building a team and putting them in the best position to grow and improve. I can understand as a fan being disappointed in not being able to watch your team play in this tournament. But I also understand that playing in this tournament might not be whats best for the teams growth/improvement.
|
|
hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
|
Post by hoyainla on Aug 2, 2017 12:10:56 GMT -5
Ewing said he was putting the brand 'on the shelf' when he was interviewed on this podcast recently. So that podcast was July 18th. Since then they've released an Anthony Mason shoe: I don't know if it's true or not, but can anyone see us voluntarily making the choice to leave this tournament on August 1st if Georgetown valued it's relationship with Nike? This is either a very stupid move based on pride - or it's something else. I found it really weird that the public statement tried to puff up a non-existent relationship with ESPN but didn't mention Nike at all. The more I have thought about this I think there may be something to the Ewing Athletics/Nike part of this. This is obviously all speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if we become the first Ewing Athletics brand. Unless I missed us resigning the agreement do we even have a deal with Nike right now? I know there is a lot of talk of the basketball part of this but it really doesn't make any sense. This not wanting to get stomped BS isn't how things happen in deals like this. Outside of the MSU game there is a good chance we could win the other games.
|
|
|
Post by practice on Aug 2, 2017 12:16:57 GMT -5
This is so clearly an effort by Coach Ewing to let the team develop a little before playing tough competition. What's wrong with that? Does nobody remember the tailspin last year's team took after Hawaii? That team (with Copeland at the time) had a number of upperclassmen. This is a great move. It's his first year ... and he has a roster with, at best, a lot of question marks. He's also reportedly trying to implement new offensive and defensive philosophies. The Big East sent 6 out of 10 teams to the tournament last year. If the team grows a little during the OOC and then performs better than expected during the Big East then this move will be praised. If the team stinks the whole season, this tempest in the teapot will be long forgotten after a slog of a season. The naysayers and crybabies on this site are pathetic.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Aug 2, 2017 12:20:11 GMT -5
I had actually not been familiar with the idea of the exempt tournament. Here's my understanding how it works. If you do NOT do an exempt tournament, you can have 29 games. Given that we have 18 Big East games, that allows for 11 OOC games. If you do an exempt tournament, you can schedule 27 games PLUS the tournament (which can be 2-4 games). So that's 9 OOC games, plus 2-4 exempt tournament games. This is why the Battle for Atlantis and Maui Invitational have the "mainland" games - it allows scheduling an additional game you wouldn't otherwise get. So, in summary, had we done the Portland tournament, we could have scheduled: 9 OOC games, plus the 3 in Portland. So, by not doing the tournament, by necessity we play one less game. Not a huge deal, but I'd rather have more games than less. But, let's look at two scenarios: Scenario 1 = We play in Portland - Let's say we got totally destroyed in Portland, losing 3 games. And let's say Syracuse killed us too (nooo). It seems like the rest of the schedule will be cupcakes (as it should be in that circumstance), so safe to assume we probably win all of them or most. So in that scenario, we go 8-4, let's say. Scenario 2 - All Cupcakes + Syracuse - Let's say we play mostly cupcakes and Syracuse, losing to Syracuse. In that scenario, we are 10-1 or 9-2 if we lose to a cupcake. Is there really a big difference between these two scenarios? I don't think so. In the latter scenario, going 10-1 or 9-2 is essentially meaningless because of the horrible opponents. Given all that, I would always choose the tougher opponents over the second scenario (plus it helps conference RPI/SoS). One thing I will say for certain: scheduling a sub-Division 1 team for anything but a pre-season exhibition would be absolutely unacceptable. You're also looking at the OOC schedule as a whole. If the PK80 tournament was in late December, maybe Ewing would have stayed in it. But with it being so early in the season, it doesn't give him much time to work things out with the team. As I mentioned earlier, there would only be time for 2-3 games before having to fly out to Portland. Last year, the season was on the brink after Maui when the team was 2-4.
|
|
iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
|
Post by iowa80 on Aug 2, 2017 12:24:16 GMT -5
This is so clearly an effort by Coach Ewing to let the team develop a little before playing tough competition. What's wrong with that? Does nobody remember the tailspin last year's team took after Hawaii? That team (with Copeland at the time) had a number of upperclassmen. This is a great move. It's his first year ... and he has a roster with, at best, a lot of question marks. He's also reportedly trying to implement new offensive and defensive philosophies. The Big East sent 6 out of 10 teams to the tournament last year. If the team grows a little during the OOC and then performs better than expected during the Big East then this move will be praised. If the team stinks the whole season, this tempest in the teapot will be long forgotten after a slog of a season. The naysayers and crybabies on this site are pathetic. Pathetic naysayer here. Yes, I think we all understand that "letting the team develop a little" is the all-purpose rationalization for this move. However, it's unfortunate that this grand development plan sends other messages that, at least to some of us, are worse than sticking by a commitment and taking a beating (if, in fact , we would have).
|
|
GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
|
Post by GUJook97 on Aug 2, 2017 12:49:40 GMT -5
It is August. Some want to gripe about anything. Ronny Thompson? lol. Talk about a reach. Its one game. One game. People griped about the staff because they are so impatient. Ewing exhibited patience and diligence. He hires a solid staff. People griped about the recruiting class, not fast enough, we need a staff in place. Can't land anybody. Ewing lands a solid recruiting class with barely anytime to recruit when he got hired. Ewing decides to pull out of this game, with a new system, new staff, some new recruits and players playing in a new system. He wants to get his guys ready. You don't feed steak to a baby. Maybe Coach Ewing feels getting pasted by MSU won't do us any good. Baby steps. Ironically, Coach Izzo, known for grueling schedules, had second thoughts and apologized to his team last year for having such a grueling schedule. Thought his team didn't have enough time to practice and develop. Now, maybe that wasn't a reason for pulling out because we don't know the full schedule. We will eventually. Maybe we will have some tougher games mixed in with some cupcakes. We don't know Baby Steps. Patience. Trust Coach Ewing. Seems like people want find fault with anything Coach Ewing decides. Outside of maybe the Ronny Thompson hire, Coach Ewing has done an admirable job up to this point considering the circumstances. Go Hoyas! LOL. I love ya, man, but you spent 10 years saying the same thing about III. It doesnt have to be so existential. It's a CBB program. I havent lost faith in the institution of Ewing. I just think it's dumb not to playing challenging competition. I think it's dumb for any team in any circumstance. This is not similar to recruiting and coaches issues. Of course that is much different in terms of patience.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Aug 2, 2017 12:54:06 GMT -5
That being able to be with your family and enjoy Thanksgiving at home while watching Redskins-Giants is a little bit more important then missing thanksgiving stuck in Portland playing a game nobody will be watching (competing with NFL, NBA) just to appease a couple grown men who are eating cheetos on their couch at home. So I am presuming we won't be playing in any tournaments over Thanksgiving in the future, since it would send the wrong message? I think if it's a place where people actually want to go like Maui, Bahamas or Puerto Rico than it's worth it to give up Thanksgiving. Even Orlando or LA might be okay. But we're taking about Portland. . . Portland.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Aug 2, 2017 13:06:07 GMT -5
Is it weird that I can't find any Georgetown products at nike.com? I get results for UNC, Duke, Stanford, Oregon, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Texas but nothing for Gonzaga, Butler, DePaul, Georgetown.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Aug 2, 2017 13:10:08 GMT -5
I still don't see why you wouldn't want to play in the tourney, its basketball.. You make some well reasoned points but in the end the powers that be decided to duck out on playing basketball, it's hard for me to get past that.. For the record I support PE & want him to do well but there were/are a lot of issues with the program that need to be addressed.. Talking about those issues isn't a slight to PE.. There is a difference between wanting to play the best night in night out and knowing whats best for building a team and putting them in the best position to grow and improve. I can understand as a fan being disappointed in not being able to watch your team play in this tournament. But I also understand that playing in this tournament might not be whats best for the teams growth/improvement. I think of you actually are thinking about having a shot at March Madness then this is the best strategy because any hope of that relies on the freshman developing by Big East play while having a decent record going into it. We don't want to be in a situation like the last couple years where our OOC record wasn't horrible forcing us to win every big east game. Just think about it the bar Is pretty low so maoomng je ncaa tourney regardless of how you got there's woulf be a huge success.
|
|
bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,095
|
Post by bigskyhoya on Aug 2, 2017 13:11:19 GMT -5
I am disappointed, personally, because I was planning to attend a once in a lifetime tournament. And Portland is a very cool city. That being said, I am not concerned about the message the cancellation sends. This program is being rebuilt from the ground up, and this year's team has many new parts to blend. We are not ready for prime time--which should not be breaking news--and Coach wants to build slowly. Baby steps are ok with me.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
|
Post by TC on Aug 2, 2017 13:14:44 GMT -5
|
|
hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
|
Post by hoyainla on Aug 2, 2017 13:30:37 GMT -5
Thanks for finding that article as I didn't think we had a Nike contract as I mentioned above but everyone just bounced over because they want to discuss the basketball aspect of this. As I said above I would be SHOCKED if this choice was made for basketball reasons.
|
|