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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 30, 2017 19:47:04 GMT -5
If you give Mac the ball from day one and he can direct an offense that doesn't turn the ball over 25 times against a low pressure defensive team like Marquette, then he will be a net positive over our current point guard situation. The bar for him really isn't set very high
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 30, 2017 19:55:25 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread but Waters is not better than Jalen Brunson.. Not to derail the thread, but Waters has a better chance at playing in the NBA than Jalen does, so I'm not sure I'd say that What does that have to with who's a better player now?
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 30, 2017 19:56:41 GMT -5
Not to derail the thread, but Waters has a better chance at playing in the NBA than Jalen does, so I'm not sure I'd say that What does that have to with who's a better player now? Nothing. Again, don't want to derail the thread, so back to talking about Mac
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 30, 2017 20:16:42 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 4:15:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 8:51:28 GMT -5
So ... the Hoyas (and they aren’t the only ones) were just torched by a “crafty, gutty” 5’10 not super athletic PG (maybe you argue combo) from a small town in Virginia who was ranked in the mid 100s coming out of high school. I get that Rowsey is a 5th year senior and has had time to develop his game, and that the Hoyas defense has a lot to be desired, but if McClung is committed to working on his game like the chatter suggests, and Ewing puts him in an offense with space, is it a stretch to think he could have success in a couple years?
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Dec 31, 2017 10:02:04 GMT -5
So ... the Hoyas (and they aren’t the only ones) were just torched by a “crafty, gutty” 5’10 not super athletic PG (maybe you argue combo) from a small town in Virginia who was ranked in the mid 100s coming out of high school. I get that Rowsey is a 5th year senior and has had time to develop his game, and that the Hoyas defense has a lot to be desired, but if McClung is committed to working on his game like the chatter suggests, and Ewing puts him in an offense with space, is it a stretch to think he could have success in a couple years? I like everyone else here hopes that his success will come sooner. But IMO we need another PG guard for next year, at minimum a good ball handler. Unfortunately, I foresee another grad-transfer that can come in and help out so that we can recruit another true PG in 2019.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 31, 2017 15:05:27 GMT -5
We need a quick fix, folks. Transfer route is the way I would go.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2017 16:55:20 GMT -5
We need a quick fix, folks. Transfer route is the way I would go. You can do both imo. We have 3 scholarships.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 31, 2017 17:48:53 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2018 10:52:25 GMT -5
Smoke Mountain Award Gate City’s Mac McClung Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Or in this case, the fire marshal. Big crowds have poured into Viking Hall on plenty of other occasions for the Arby’s Classic, but nothing before quite replicated the opening-day experience of this year’s tournament when the fire marshal was forced to shut down the arena scarcely three hours into the event with the bleachers already packed anticipating McClung and his squad taking the court more than two hours later. If possible, Mac Mania reached new heights last week. Gate City’s viral virtuoso wasn’t able to get the Blue Devils past eventual tournament champion North Mecklenburg in the first round, but the Georgetown recruit otherwise more than lived up to the hype by pouring in 34.5 points per game to win the Arby’s scoring title for the second straight year. Unlike last year, however, when Gate City went 0-3 in the tournament, McClung and teammates Zac Ervin and Bradley Dean carried the Blue Devils to a sixth-place finish – the best Arby’s showing by a far Southwest Virginia team since Virginia High snagged sixth in a far-less-loaded field at the inaugural event back in 1983. McClung finished his four-year run at the Arby’s with an astounding 301 career points in the tournament alone and once again proved his talent goes far beyond the highlight-reel dunks that have made him a nationally renowned prospect. The smoke mountain sandwich features a pile of smoky brisket, chicken, pork belly, cheddar and BBQ sauce somehow squeezed between a split artisan roll. It’d be hard to find a sandwich to better symbolize a multi-faceted superstar whose legion of fans have reached mountainous levels www.heraldcourier.com/sports/hubbard-the-menu-please-for-the-arby-s-classic-awards/article_a7aca432-ef6f-11e7-990c-df2d417db0ac.html
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jan 2, 2018 16:15:38 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 11:42:44 GMT -5
It's not uncommon at all. There's tons of kids who aren't Top 100 that end up being as talented or more talented than many of their Top 100 brethren. The mid-major upsets every year speak to that. In order to pre-empt the inevitable discussion, it's not that recruiting rankings are meaningless. But when you have more information, they are hardly ironclad. Sure, but we don't have much reliable information. Because, as you point out, these rankings aren't ironclad, I was somewhat hesitant to go there, but, thanks to the publicity his style has created, Mac isn't exactly an unknown despite the low profile of the region in which he plays. He had a certain level of D1 offers, but none interested him over Rutgers initially. And I somewhat understated the recruiting services by only referencing "top 100" when he's not even on the fringe of that. I get that there are "finds" all over the country, but we recognize those finds based on D1 success. Given the vast differences in levels of competition, the eye test doesn't always work, and I tend to look at other schools' recruitment efforts supplemented by the (admittedly flawed) rating services. Okay, I'm really late to this, but I would argue we do have more information. One, the mixtape blowup of McClung has occurred relatively recently, and I don't expect the ratings or the recruiting to have reflected it. He was from a small town, hadn't performed in AAU, was committed to Rutgers. Then he decommitted as the hype started to get big, swang to Georgetown real quick and now the mixtapes are everywhere. In short, I'm not sure he got a chance to get the hype make it to rankings and other schools. He's the type of player who absolutely gets underrated -- small, small school, athletic but hasn't put it together. But those aren't positives; just excuses. We also know this: he's a gym rat. That's huge. He's improved his shot and his handle, but both have upside. He didn't disappear against North Mecklenburg but didn't play well. He's gone for big numbers against everyone else. I'm pretty confident saying that he's not going to be an instant star but from the evidence I've seen, I'm struggling to see bust. He works his ass off. He's athletic. He's not unskilled. There will be an adjustment, but he's going to constantly work to improve. This is a good offer. He's going to thrive on the break. He's going to bring energy. He probably won't be quick enough to be a star, but he's going to bring things to the team that we don't have.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 11:59:40 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 12:01:38 GMT -5
Just a couple of points. Let me first mention the majority of Loaded's games at the Adidas championships in July are online and you can watch all of them. 1) He started more games than he came off the bench. They usually started a 3 guard lineup. In the beginning (Spring session) he did not start but as Boyd struggled Mac replaced him. 2) AAU is about showcasing kids so starting isn't necessarily that big of a deal. While not the norm, some coaches will start a different 5 each game in an effort to get their kids seen. 3) He didn't play with the ball in his hands that much. There were games/stretches when he did run the show but it wasn't necessarily his primary role. This is true 4) Loaded did a good job of playing together and sharing the ball so no one player seemed to dominate the scoring for them. Their leading scorer averaged under 13 a game and they had 8 players averaging between (rounding up) 6-13 ppg. Expecting anyone to put up huge numbers for them isn't really realistic. To many guys that are capable and it's hard to go off when you don't get consistent touches. That effects rankings also, I would expect a few of those kids to outplay theirs.. 5) When he did play on ball he played more like a game manager than a ball dominate pg, but again that could be due to the environment and talent surrounding him. It wouldn't make sense, or show any semblance of B-ball iq to play on Loaded like he does for Gate City. By all accounts he works really hard on his game. My feeling is if you have talent, will, and work ethic that usually wins out in the end, and he has all three. If no additions are made I expect his numbers freshman season to be similar to Blair's and Pickett's. Those are normal Freshman numbers. I think both have played fine, and expect them to be much better next year. I could see Mac doing similar things. I want to stress the fact that's a normal progression for Freshman. Struggle early. Show flashes and noticeable improvement Sophomore year. Become key pieces as upperclassmen. I think all three could play together so it's not really a competition imo. I also think the hype around him is totally unfair to him. He seems to handle it well, and being a marked man everywhere he goes isn't bad for his development at all. The competition is weak but some of the plays and shots he makes are college ready and would work against better comp. Some of the drives and other more athletic plays may not be considering the size he would face down low. The fact that he isn't just relying on his athleticism to get over is a positive sign, and I expect him to be a good player for us eventually. Hopefully that comes sooner than later but if it takes time, that's fine, and totally normal. I think this whole "better than our current players right now" discussion clouds the entire point, since it matters as much what you think about McClung's short term future and what you think of our current players as it does what is important -- which is how good McClung will be one to five years from now. I am a huge fan of his because of work ethic. I cannot see a player who works that hard and has enough athleticism being a bust. We're not talking the NBA -- we see random guards ripping up top teams in the NCAA tournament every year. I also think people who criticize Mac have think that those who like the signing think he's going to be a star. I don't think he's going to be one immediately and have no idea if he EVER gets to be one. But I'm fairly confident that this is a good offer and he'll bring positives to the table. You mention the hype, and I think this is a weird situation where people who watch andone mixtapes hype him a ton ... and no one else does. This guy doesn't have hype in a lot of ways -- he's not even ranked! Someone tossed out a Demetrius Hunter comp, and I'm pretty comfortable with that in a lot of ways -- I don't expect him to be a star early on, but I do expect some outrageous dunks, some 3s, some sparks where you can see where he could be a really good player as he develops.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 3, 2018 12:34:17 GMT -5
Just a couple of points. Let me first mention the majority of Loaded's games at the Adidas championships in July are online and you can watch all of them. 1) He started more games than he came off the bench. They usually started a 3 guard lineup. In the beginning (Spring session) he did not start but as Boyd struggled Mac replaced him. 2) AAU is about showcasing kids so starting isn't necessarily that big of a deal. While not the norm, some coaches will start a different 5 each game in an effort to get their kids seen. 3) He didn't play with the ball in his hands that much. There were games/stretches when he did run the show but it wasn't necessarily his primary role. This is true 4) Loaded did a good job of playing together and sharing the ball so no one player seemed to dominate the scoring for them. Their leading scorer averaged under 13 a game and they had 8 players averaging between (rounding up) 6-13 ppg. Expecting anyone to put up huge numbers for them isn't really realistic. To many guys that are capable and it's hard to go off when you don't get consistent touches. That effects rankings also, I would expect a few of those kids to outplay theirs.. 5) When he did play on ball he played more like a game manager than a ball dominate pg, but again that could be due to the environment and talent surrounding him. It wouldn't make sense, or show any semblance of B-ball iq to play on Loaded like he does for Gate City. By all accounts he works really hard on his game. My feeling is if you have talent, will, and work ethic that usually wins out in the end, and he has all three. If no additions are made I expect his numbers freshman season to be similar to Blair's and Pickett's. Those are normal Freshman numbers. I think both have played fine, and expect them to be much better next year. I could see Mac doing similar things. I want to stress the fact that's a normal progression for Freshman. Struggle early. Show flashes and noticeable improvement Sophomore year. Become key pieces as upperclassmen. I think all three could play together so it's not really a competition imo. I also think the hype around him is totally unfair to him. He seems to handle it well, and being a marked man everywhere he goes isn't bad for his development at all. The competition is weak but some of the plays and shots he makes are college ready and would work against better comp. Some of the drives and other more athletic plays may not be considering the size he would face down low. The fact that he isn't just relying on his athleticism to get over is a positive sign, and I expect him to be a good player for us eventually. Hopefully that comes sooner than later but if it takes time, that's fine, and totally normal. I think this whole "better than our current players right now" discussion clouds the entire point, since it matters as much what you think about McClung's short term future and what you think of our current players as it does what is important -- which is how good McClung will be one to five years from now. I am a huge fan of his because of work ethic. I cannot see a player who works that hard and has enough athleticism being a bust. We're not talking the NBA -- we see random guards ripping up top teams in the NCAA tournament every year. I also think people who criticize Mac have think that those who like the signing think he's going to be a star. I don't think he's going to be one immediately and have no idea if he EVER gets to be one. But I'm fairly confident that this is a good offer and he'll bring positives to the table. You mention the hype, and I think this is a weird situation where people who watch andone mixtapes hype him a ton ... and no one else does. This guy doesn't have hype in a lot of ways -- he's not even ranked! Someone tossed out a Demetrius Hunter comp, and I'm pretty comfortable with that in a lot of ways -- I don't expect him to be a star early on, but I do expect some outrageous dunks, some 3s, some sparks where you can see where he could be a really good player as he develops. Word is that on his visit. he looked alot like those tapes against this current team and was killing them.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 3, 2018 12:42:42 GMT -5
I think this whole "better than our current players right now" discussion clouds the entire point, since it matters as much what you think about McClung's short term future and what you think of our current players as it does what is important -- which is how good McClung will be one to five years from now. I am a huge fan of his because of work ethic. I cannot see a player who works that hard and has enough athleticism being a bust. We're not talking the NBA -- we see random guards ripping up top teams in the NCAA tournament every year. I also think people who criticize Mac have think that those who like the signing think he's going to be a star. I don't think he's going to be one immediately and have no idea if he EVER gets to be one. But I'm fairly confident that this is a good offer and he'll bring positives to the table. You mention the hype, and I think this is a weird situation where people who watch andone mixtapes hype him a ton ... and no one else does. This guy doesn't have hype in a lot of ways -- he's not even ranked! I kind of disagree with this - the people who are criticizing seem completely dismissive of him. The criticism is basically of two varieties : - he plays against such weak competition that he'll be exposed as some sort of fraud when he gets to Georgetown (see: Guibunda, Cornelio) - he's a one dimensional youtube mix tape star that doesn't have any other skills There's no "maybe he'll be a good reserve" sort of couching statement there that expresses there's a definite playable floor here whatever the development path is. I think it's very much worth pointing out that he is better than a good percentage of our rotation players right now because it's a real bar that he's going to have to step over, and sort of a tacit admission that he belongs at this level without ceding to a lot of hype. I think I threw out the idea that we haven't had as an athletic a guard like this since Demetrius. I'm not sure he rivals a healthy Demetrius - I haven't seen anything like the Eddie Griffin dunk yet, but I can't remember anyone dunking like this since Demetrius.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2018 13:26:04 GMT -5
I suppose. I really don't see the point of arguing about what people who dislike Mac think he'll do.
But I'm with you in general. There are things that level of competition is pretty irrelevant to: he gets good elevation on his jumper and sinks a decent amount; he has the hops to elevate in traffic; he's a gym rat and works hard on his game; he's got good BBIQ in terms of crafty ways to get open; at minimum, he's got an acceptable handle, etc. He's a bit of a gunner but it's hard to say how much of an adjustment this will be.
What you can't really tell against poor competition: is he quick enough to get past guys on his own? Can he defend the point guard position at a Big East level? Is his handle strong enough against good defenders and pressure? Can he adjust his game on the interior to deal with bigger and more athletic opponents? Can he distribute at all?
As you point out, no one on our team can really answer a strong yes to those questions, either. But if I had to guess:
1. Mac is going to need screens and rotations to generate most of his drives, and that's okay. NBA-level players don't need the fancy moves and step backs Mac uses at the high school. It's great that he has those, but it's unlikely he's going to be someone who isos successfully at will if he can't do it at the high school level. And that's okay. As long as he can create off a pick and roll or a quick rotation, we are good.
2. A big who knows? I know he is going to work at it, but this is the biggest question. He's probably not going to be great -- and that's why we need some rim defending as well.
3. Handle -- I think he will develop this to be strong enough in time, but freshman year will be an adjustment. But I can't imagine him not putting the work in for something like this.
4. He has the hops, toughness and work ethic. I think this will be a HUGE adjustment to go from right now to having to work high off the glass, use the rim as protection, etc. But he's a smart player from all I can see, and this is just practice, practice, practice. Again, freshman year bumps, but I'm not worried because it isn't like elevation is an issue.
5. No worries. I've seen plenty of good interior decision making from him. His lack of assists is more a matter of him clearly being the #1, not inherent lack of vision or selfishness from what I've seen. No, he'll never be the "pure" point guard people are obsessed with, but I don't think that's what Pat wants. I think he wants a scoring, pick and roll, fast break running PG, and I think Mac can absolutely run the court, make the right decision, and have a strong enough handle and outside shot to run the pnr.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 3, 2018 14:46:12 GMT -5
Hunter could really dunk, but he didn't have the offensive tools that McClung brings. I am fully in the camp that feels like Mac will make the transition to college smoothly. Sure there may be some freshman bumps along the way, but the rock will be secure in his hands. We will see soon enough in Kenner.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2018 15:18:08 GMT -5
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