MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2017 18:15:59 GMT -5
I don’t know why people think this kid can’t get in the lane and when he does he’s very crafty. He already has a pull-up better than anybody on the team. OT what kind of punk coach would say that to a kid, guess the same one that would pick those uniforms There's an AAU coaching position waiting for this guy.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 29, 2017 18:52:29 GMT -5
Is McClung any worse than DiVincenzo at the same stage? DiVincenzo is taller , probably a better defender. McClung is a better ballhandler and more explosive.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 29, 2017 18:59:26 GMT -5
Sorry to be the glass half empty guy, but I've been running through this thread in an effort to see why we should be so enthusiastic about the kid. Mix tapes against a certain level of competition only take you so far. And if he's a combo guard as opposed to a PG, that's OK too provided he contributes. But how often do the recruiting evaluators really miss by this much (top 100 nowhere)? At the high major level, you can win with well-coached three-stars, but you generally don't build around them or rely on them for essential roles. Virtually all of the impressions of Mac (the most recent tournament notwithstanding) are based on a certain (low?)level of competition, combined with his (non-starring) role with Loaded. I'll welcome him to the team, but I'm wondering if we're not getting ahead of ourselves in talent evaluation. What is missing from his game? He's got elevation on his jump shot, he's got an incredible amount of athleticism, he has creativity, he's strong, he has a decent mid-range game, he passes - the argument against him is basically rankings and competition but I haven't heard anyone make an argument about what specific skills this kid lacks. There's enough youtube evidence out there that this kid has some pretty good skills and great athleticism. At very worst - he's an upgrade over Blair. I have no idea how many shot attempts he's taking to score 40 points because I cannot find a Gate City box score, but Blair is a horribly inefficient player who doesn't have McClung's athleticism. I can't think of a thing that Blair does that McClung cannot do. We still need a floor general PG. I am not saying these are bad I'm just adding info to the thread. He shot 27% from 3 in AAU. He was 41% overall but with all the dunking he does not sure what to take away from that. He's a 70% FT shooter. The guys that played in front of him are ranked 94 and 155 and he came off the bench. He seemed to have some good games in games that were blowouts. The tight games were not as good. The team was obviously really good. All that being said he the hype is obviously out of control and it will be hard for him to live up to it. I don't think hes that great of a shooter yet. As well all know highlight tapes lie so thinking he can shoot from those is a mistake. In high school from the box scores Ive seen he seems to be a volume scorer. That being said I cant imagine he will be worse than Mulmore or Dickerson even from the start. If he can just dribble, not just barrel to the basket with no plan, and not turn the ball over he's an improvement. That is a low bar to meet. He is more of a combo than a PG. Hopefully he doesn't try to come in and make highlight plays from the start. As I have said a few times before as long as the staff is not looking at him to be the answer at PG everything will be fine.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 29, 2017 19:15:45 GMT -5
Yeah considering Mulmore averaged 26/game (IIRC) in JUCO I think he could score 40 easy against low level HS competition. That being said I can't imagine Mac being any worse than Mulmore at this point but it's not like Mulmore was considered a decent HS recruit. I agree with the first part, those kids would dominate in HS also, but if Mulmore was playing in HS at his current level he would be considered a very good HS recruit. You're comparing a senior in College vs a Senior in HS. Put another way, if this was Mulmore's freshman season folks would be a lot higher on him obviously. I agree totally. I was just responding to the ridiculous post that said Mulmore and Mosely couldn't put up 44 on some high school kids.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 29, 2017 19:37:30 GMT -5
Are those stats right? I have this link with 35% from three and 77% from the FT line. Also his first game was by far his worst. Not doubting there are multiple versions of these stats just trying to figure out the best link for this info. www.prepcircuit.com/roster_players/17871832
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 29, 2017 19:46:07 GMT -5
Are those stats right? I have this link with 35% from three and 77% from the FT line. Also his first game was by far his worst. Not doubting there are multiple versions of these stats just trying to figure out the best link for this info. www.prepcircuit.com/roster_players/17871832Shoot I meant to include this in my above post and forgot. This is where I got the stats from. You have to click on him from the player drop down. It was the most games I could see compiled. adidasuprising.com/gauntlet-finale-stats/
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 29, 2017 19:46:16 GMT -5
You say it's ridiculous to think Mulmore couldn't score 44 on the Kentucky high school team, yet you concede that McClung will be an immediate upgrade. 👍🏻
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 29, 2017 19:55:14 GMT -5
Are those stats right? I have this link with 35% from three and 77% from the FT line. Also his first game was by far his worst. Not doubting there are multiple versions of these stats just trying to figure out the best link for this info. www.prepcircuit.com/roster_players/17871832Shoot I meant to include this in my above post and forgot. This is where I got the stats from. You have to click on him from the player drop down. It was the most games I could see compiled. adidasuprising.com/gauntlet-finale-stats/Thanks. Looks like my link is just the spring and yours has summer. Interesting that his shooting is better in the spring but the summer session, his assist/to is fantastic (16-3) but his shooting suffers. Wonder if it's random or he focused on that part of his game.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 29, 2017 19:56:40 GMT -5
Mulmore could likely score 40 on a Kentucky high school team, but every point would be a floater driving to the hoop from inside of 6 feet or a free throw when he got fouled which is how I imagine he averaged over 20 in community college.
McClung has a far more diverse skill set to my unprofessional eyes.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 29, 2017 20:22:54 GMT -5
You say it's ridiculous to think Mulmore couldn't score 44 on the Kentucky high school team, yet you concede that McClung will be an immediate upgrade. 👍🏻 If you don't think a guy that averaged 26 in JUCO can put up 44 on a HS I can't even take you serious. I'm not sure FR McClung will be much better that Mulmore this year but he could be better for this team if he knows his role. He won't put up the offensive numbers Mulmore has this year but hopefully he can play D. i do imagine SR McClung will be better than Mulmore this year although not sure he will shoot as high % as Mulmore this year, but that's not Mulmores problem.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 29, 2017 20:46:41 GMT -5
Regardless of where we stand on Mac's upside, Mulmore had 4 offers out of JUCO. 247sports.com/Player/Jonathan-Mulmore-90207/high-school-172679To put it lightly, not exactly an impressive list. Mac has a lot of mid major offers but also BC, Seton Hall, and of course his commitment to Rutgers from major conference teams. No, blue bloods aren't on him, but let's not get that confused with Mulmore. Mulmore is a placeholder of all placeholders. I hope we can squeeze something out of him this year, but he is just there to play the position. I also agree with TC on Blair though maybe not as negative. Blair is a rotation player but an unlikely starter long-term. Nothing wrong with that, he could be very good at it. But I think Mac is the kind of athelete Pat values at guard and we'll be looking at additional similar options in the backcourt for '18 and '19.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 29, 2017 23:11:09 GMT -5
This doesn't break it down by player, but Gate City shot 52% from the field and 44.4% from three against Fern Creek. Given that the offense was pretty much all McClung, guessing he's shooting pretty efficiently.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 29, 2017 23:38:45 GMT -5
If you don't think a guy that averaged 26 in JUCO can put up 44 on a HS I can't even take you serious. I'm not sure FR McClung will be much better that Mulmore this year but he could be better for this team if he knows his role. He won't put up the offensive numbers Mulmore has this year but hopefully he can play D. i do imagine SR McClung will be better than Mulmore this year although not sure he will shoot as high % as Mulmore this year, but that's not Mulmores problem. Mulmore's a college senior and probably 22 years old? Playing what-if as to whether he could score against 16 year old high schoolers doesn't seem like the right set of questions. When Mulmore was in HS, he was averaging 12.5 points a game, so I think it's probably a given that he was not capable of doing what McClung just did when he was in high school. I think we're all agreeing on that. I have no idea whether McClung is going to be a step up from what Mulmore has provided this year in his freshman year. I am however sold on the idea that he's better than the bottom third of our roster (Dickerson, Pickett, Blair) right now. He's going to be an upgrade over what we have right now.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 30, 2017 1:10:45 GMT -5
If you don't think a guy that averaged 26 in JUCO can put up 44 on a HS I can't even take you serious. I'm not sure FR McClung will be much better that Mulmore this year but he could be better for this team if he knows his role. He won't put up the offensive numbers Mulmore has this year but hopefully he can play D. i do imagine SR McClung will be better than Mulmore this year although not sure he will shoot as high % as Mulmore this year, but that's not Mulmores problem. Mulmore's a college senior and probably 22 years old? Playing what-if as to whether he could score against 16 year old high schoolers doesn't seem like the right set of questions. When Mulmore was in HS, he was averaging 12.5 points a game, so I think it's probably a given that he was not capable of doing what McClung just did when he was in high school. I think we're all agreeing on that. I have no idea whether McClung is going to be a step up from what Mulmore has provided this year in his freshman year. I am however sold on the idea that he's better than the bottom third of our roster (Dickerson, Pickett, Blair) right now. He's going to be an upgrade over what we have right now. The statement wasn't whether HS SR Mulmore would score 44 it was that Mulmore NOW couldn't score 44. Also if you think he's an upgrade over Pickett and Blair the chances are that he's equal to or less. He's not some unknown quantity. So either he is A) greatly improved in the last 4 months or B) a volume scorer that has impressive hops that is taking advantage of lesser competition. I know some on here probably think I'm playing a hater role but I'm just being realistic. Edit: I can't believe that by being the voice of reason this thread has turned me into a Mulmore defender when you can clearly tell by my other posts I'm not his biggest fan.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 30, 2017 1:38:21 GMT -5
How about C) markets are imperfect and rankings don't always peg kids correctly outside of the top 30 or so - especially when they are from areas that don't produce a lot of D1 players? A lot of people seem married to a ranking and AAU stats that I don't think are predictive whatsoever.
He literally scored 44 today, on what look like good percentages, on the #4 HS team in Kentucky. He probably sets the scoring record tomorrow for that tournament that is held by a former NBA player. No one is alleging that he's going to be first team BE, I don't know what the resistance here is to the idea that he could be a quality player that gets minutes, and that he's better than some nobody from Canada and a struggling SF.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 10:33:15 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 10:46:18 GMT -5
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Post by thejerseytornado on Dec 30, 2017 10:58:27 GMT -5
Those numbers are a really small sample size. His poor 3 point shooting was on 26 total shots. Had he made two more, he'd be at a respectable 35%. Similarly, 16-3 A:T is too small to really be predictive of anything.
What we can see is that on his AAU team, he was a playmaker when he was on the floor (2nd in assists) and his A:T ratio was pretty in line with the guy ahead of him (top 100 PG) for a legitimately loaded team. He's kinda an unknown--he'll either perform like a steal of a prospect or never put it together. I don't think he'll be average--he seems like a hit or miss prospect. I'm excited and hopeful (i'm on the hit side, for the record, but I wouldn't stake my rep on that) for the ride, but we can spend the rest of this season debating which it'll be but it'll have the accuracy of reading tea leaves, probably.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 30, 2017 10:58:39 GMT -5
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 30, 2017 12:13:29 GMT -5
How about C) markets are imperfect and rankings don't always peg kids correctly outside of the top 30 or so - especially when they are from areas that don't produce a lot of D1 players? A lot of people seem married to a ranking and AAU stats that I don't think are predictive whatsoever. He literally scored 44 today, on what look like good percentages, on the #4 HS team in Kentucky. He probably sets the scoring record tomorrow for that tournament that is held by a former NBA player. No one is alleging that he's going to be first team BE, I don't know what the resistance here is to the idea that he could be a quality player that gets minutes, and that he's better than some nobody from Canada and a struggling SF. I took care of C in the thread below. Is there a chance MAC could be good sure. He is sure coming into a spot where he will get a chance compared to most of the other guys around his ranking. But there is a better chance he's just average. He's on an AAU team and comes off the bench behind a top 100 and top 150 guy so hes at least easy to rank compared to those guys. So unless the rankings are all off for what was one of the best AAU teams then the chances are it's A or B. Also if you think his ranking is way off you must think that every big college coach has misjudged his ability as well. We were his best offer and he was committed to Rutgers before us. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/thread/30579/recruiting-rankings-pretty-good-indicators
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