jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 18, 2018 14:37:25 GMT -5
I have seen nothing but a great attitude of a couple videos of his working hard. I hope the kid busts out and finds a way to contribute this year. I wish nothing but the best for him. I was happy for him when he had that break-out game and was then curious why it never led to more playing time.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 18, 2018 15:13:16 GMT -5
One thing about Mourning that has not come up in this discussion is his ability to communicate on the court. I know Govan works on this with Pat, but Trey is a natural chatterbox out there, calling screens and switches better than anyone else on the team (when last he played). I have faith that his game has improved, but, if nothing else, he gets consideration for defensive minutes just because he improves the teams performance with this skill.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 18, 2018 15:15:04 GMT -5
Walker lacked strength last year for a PF and is actually better at small forward. He was basically played out of position to accomodate Pickett and Kaleb. If you watched Kenner you saw him dominate all facets of the game (points, rebounds, blocks, 3pters, dunks) when he was played at his best position. I think he will be stronger and bigger to be able to play PF but we will see. Walker seemed to have been another that proved what is seen at Kenner doesn't translate to league play. He looked really good at Kenner and, like many, I was really excited for what he would bring. What was seen at Kenner seems to have stayed at Kenner. Walker was in at wing when Derrickson was in and Govan sat and he seemed really lost then even though wing is where his Kenner skills showed up as solid. The last couple games when Walker looked good (mostly rebounding and put back attempts) he was working with Govan and playing more of a big role. I would have thought Walker would have done really well in a 1 ball handler, 3 wings, and a big type set, which Villanova lives on and many in the BE. In Kenner he looked like a much more athletic and long Derrickson (outside shooting, rebounding, but also able to drive). What Walker brought to the court during the season wasn't that, he just looked incredibly lost and no idea what he should be doing (other than the last couple games). This next year when Govan is in there is going to be a need for help defense and big support on the defensive side. When Govan is out there needs to be somebody to fill that role Derrickson held, where there was a good middle defender (Derrickson was a much better middle defender than Govan). Walker may be in that role, but there really isn't anybody who could fill it. Mourning is a bit undersized for that middle role too, but may be able to step up to fill it, even though it hasn't been a shown strength. If Govan sat then Derrickson was at center which means that Walker was at power forward not wing
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 18, 2018 15:38:22 GMT -5
Neither Marcus or Govan would have played on that 86-87 team, the folks who played on that team were that good.. There wasn't any more time for Gillery or Edwards on that team that won the Big East.. I remember those teams well, they may not have had useful size but they were very tough to play against.. If there were minutes to be had as you stated but he wasn't given a chance to play how is that not holding the kid back in some respect? I'm not saying he'd be some superstar but to me if a program that's losing has its fans asking questions about a player who never played then the ball has been dropped somewhere along the lines.. Th 86-87 team was Reggie and the Miracles. Marcus and Govan would not have played? Gillery played, but they wouldn't have played? The likes of Gillery, Edwards, Highsmith, etc. would have taken all of their minutes in the front court. Marcus couldn't come in and spell the shorter McDonald at the 4 spot? Govan couldn't outplay Highsmith for minutes as "backups" to Gillery? You remember those teams, well. Yeah, okay. Carry on. I guess III dropped the ball with Muersan too. The 86-87 team couldn't be more different than the GU teams these past three years. Those teams were tough as nails in a rougher, more talented BE, yet they managed to win it. Nothing about those teams said finesse. Not sure Pops would have recruited such players.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 18, 2018 15:39:51 GMT -5
Neither Marcus or Govan would have played on that 86-87 team, the folks who played on that team were that good.. There wasn't any more time for Gillery or Edwards on that team that won the Big East.. I remember those teams well, they may not have had useful size but they were very tough to play against.. If there were minutes to be had as you stated but he wasn't given a chance to play how is that not holding the kid back in some respect? I'm not saying he'd be some superstar but to me if a program that's losing has its fans asking questions about a player who never played then the ball has been dropped somewhere along the lines.. Th 86-87 team was Reggie and the Miracles. Marcus and Govan would not have played? Gillery played, but they wouldn't have played? The likes of Gillery, Edwards, Highsmith, etc. would have taken all of their minutes in the front court. Marcus couldn't come in and spell the shorter McDonald at the 4 spot? Govan couldn't outplay Highsmith for minutes as "backups" to Gillery? You remember those teams, well. Yeah, okay. Carry on. I guess III dropped the ball with Muersan too. My bad I should have said "Marcus & Govan wouldn't have played that much on that team". You're right Marcus could have spelled Perry & Govan could have gotten some run too on that team.. I didn't realize I had to be so literal considering the context of the conversation but again my bad.. JT3 handled Muresan fine in my view.. Now I'll carry on by asking you this question again since you didn't answer it the 1st time around.. If there were minutes to be had as you stated but Mourning wasn't given a chance to play how is that not holding the kid back in some respect?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 18, 2018 16:58:33 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree; even without the name this young man is better than given credit. Is he a center, no he is not. He is what the modern game today has evolved into is that he is more of a stretch 4 type. What has been lacking from that equation in the past is his body maturity (physical strength). When he body maturity catches up ( and I do not know when ) then he will be just fine. If you of the mind that we need that to happen now then all I can say is that only this fall will tell. And what I mean by fine is that he can be an important contributor to the team if that physical maturity starts to blossom. I'll acknowledge we haven't seen much of Mourning, and it's been 1+ years since he's even been active on the roster, so it's hard to say what Mourning will bring. A good example is Benimon who wasn't very good at Georgetown, but thrived after transfer (though I think some of that was easier competition; but regardless, he clearly improved). So maybe Mourning will benefit from sitting. I think what demonstrates how people do consider his legacy is that many consider him a center or reference him playing that position (not saying you do, but others in this thread have mentioned him backing up Govan, etc.). There is nothing about his makeup that says "Center" aside from the fact that his father played there. To clarify, I am not invoking the legacy thing as a way to be negative - it doesn't really matter to me either way, I just think he should be treated like everybody else. If the kid can play, he should play, if not, he should get limited minutes. For whatever reason, Mourning simply wasn't highly recruited, and largely looked at as a walk-on. This may have been his choice, which is fine, but the only schools I remember being mentioned aside from Georgetown were Florida and Duke. Both are good programs, but does anybody seriously think Mourning would have gotten significant run at Duke, for example? Coach K is notorious for smaller rotations, and Mourning likely would have been on the wrong side of that equation. As I've said, the kid could be fantastic, and I hope he is. He certainly has good resources available to work on his game, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he makes a jump from what he did a few seasons ago. He's the second-biggest guy on the team. I'm trying to figure out where all these beasts at back-up center are hiding. Sure seems like 6'9 230lbs is plenty of size for a backup center in today's game. Mikael Hopkins started at center for goodness sakes. Almost nobody actually plays pure center anymore so after Govan, it's really up in the air who fills in. I also think if Trey's name were Mitt Major, a grad transfer who averaged 16 and 9 at NW Montana Agricultural and Scatological, half the board would pencil him in for 20 minutes. His chances of starting are incredibly low. But our depth guys like Walker, Carter, and Trey all have plenty of unknowns. To think the 5th-year guy could earn solid backup minutes doesn't seem like such a wild stretch.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 18, 2018 17:12:29 GMT -5
Don't forget Josh LeBlanc. 6'7" with 7'1" reach and is a great shot-blocker.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2018 17:26:48 GMT -5
Walker seemed to have been another that proved what is seen at Kenner doesn't translate to league play. He looked really good at Kenner and, like many, I was really excited for what he would bring. What was seen at Kenner seems to have stayed at Kenner. Walker was in at wing when Derrickson was in and Govan sat and he seemed really lost then even though wing is where his Kenner skills showed up as solid. The last couple games when Walker looked good (mostly rebounding and put back attempts) he was working with Govan and playing more of a big role. I would have thought Walker would have done really well in a 1 ball handler, 3 wings, and a big type set, which Villanova lives on and many in the BE. In Kenner he looked like a much more athletic and long Derrickson (outside shooting, rebounding, but also able to drive). What Walker brought to the court during the season wasn't that, he just looked incredibly lost and no idea what he should be doing (other than the last couple games). This next year when Govan is in there is going to be a need for help defense and big support on the defensive side. When Govan is out there needs to be somebody to fill that role Derrickson held, where there was a good middle defender (Derrickson was a much better middle defender than Govan). Walker may be in that role, but there really isn't anybody who could fill it. Mourning is a bit undersized for that middle role too, but may be able to step up to fill it, even though it hasn't been a shown strength. If Govan sat then Derrickson was at center which means that Walker was at power forward not wing Most often, and particularly in late BE play, when Derrickson was in the middle as Govan sat PE played with out a power forward. Most often it was Johnson in that slot. Derrickson would move up and down and around the lane on offense and others stayed out or just would cut through the middle. Many BE teams don't play with a power forward and they lack a true big in the middle, so on defense this this adjustment was more flexible. With Derrickson in the middle there was as strong of a need for another big to provide help defense as there was with Govan in the middle.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 18, 2018 17:43:29 GMT -5
I'll acknowledge we haven't seen much of Mourning, and it's been 1+ years since he's even been active on the roster, so it's hard to say what Mourning will bring. A good example is Benimon who wasn't very good at Georgetown, but thrived after transfer (though I think some of that was easier competition; but regardless, he clearly improved). So maybe Mourning will benefit from sitting. I think what demonstrates how people do consider his legacy is that many consider him a center or reference him playing that position (not saying you do, but others in this thread have mentioned him backing up Govan, etc.). There is nothing about his makeup that says "Center" aside from the fact that his father played there. To clarify, I am not invoking the legacy thing as a way to be negative - it doesn't really matter to me either way, I just think he should be treated like everybody else. If the kid can play, he should play, if not, he should get limited minutes. For whatever reason, Mourning simply wasn't highly recruited, and largely looked at as a walk-on. This may have been his choice, which is fine, but the only schools I remember being mentioned aside from Georgetown were Florida and Duke. Both are good programs, but does anybody seriously think Mourning would have gotten significant run at Duke, for example? Coach K is notorious for smaller rotations, and Mourning likely would have been on the wrong side of that equation. As I've said, the kid could be fantastic, and I hope he is. He certainly has good resources available to work on his game, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he makes a jump from what he did a few seasons ago. He's the second-biggest guy on the team. I'm trying to figure out where all these beasts at back-up center are hiding. Sure seems like 6'9 230lbs is plenty of size for a backup center in today's game. Mikael Hopkins started at center for goodness sakes. Almost nobody actually plays pure center anymore so after Govan, it's really up in the air who fills in. I also think if Trey's name were Mitt Major, a grad transfer who averaged 16 and 9 at NW Montana Agricultural and Scatological, half the board would pencil him in for 20 minutes. His chances of starting are incredibly low. But our depth guys like Walker, Carter, and Trey all have plenty of unknowns. To think the 5th-year guy could earn solid backup minutes doesn't seem like such a wild stretch. Keep in mind Jeff Green is 6'9" and 235, so Mourning is a light version of Jeff Green. NCAA (and pro) measurements are tough as they are quite often really off. When Porter and Mourning have been on the same court at Kenner Porter seemed taller than Mourning, but not by much. Statued official measurements would have Jeff Green and Mikel Hopkins with only 4 pounds difference, but when they are next to each other Hopkins is well over an inch taller and much bigger. The humorous measurement was Trawick, who before his senior year at Kenner was complaining he had grown after coming to Georgetown and his height never was updated.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 18, 2018 18:12:56 GMT -5
All things being equal, I would prefer to give minutes to the younger players who are our future.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 18, 2018 19:42:11 GMT -5
Would prefer to give minutes to the best players.
If the younger players aren't the best players, then that gives them something to work toward.
Competition. Earning it.
Nothing is given. That is how champions are made.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 18, 2018 20:19:55 GMT -5
“All things being equal”
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 18, 2018 20:23:25 GMT -5
Size matters but not as much as it used to. If we've learned anything (or if Jay Wright has taught us anything) over the past 2-3 years big men in todays game have to be able to play away from the basket both offensively and defensively. They have to be able to score off the dribble, shoot the three and not be a swinging door on D. We have to let the whole "Big Man U" go and not worry about our bigs size so much.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 18, 2018 20:28:11 GMT -5
I agree. Start McClung at center and let Jessie come off the bench.
Thank you Jay Wright.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 8:01:34 GMT -5
Size matters but not as much as it used to. That's what she said.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 19, 2018 8:05:18 GMT -5
Size matters but not as much as it used to. If we've learned anything (or if Jay Wright has taught us anything) over the past 2-3 years big men in todays game have to be able to play away from the basket both offensively and defensively. They have to be able to score off the dribble, shoot the three and not be a swinging door on D. We have to let the whole "Big Man U" go and not worry about our bigs size so much. Question: do you think the other Villanova starting 4 (this year’s team) would have been better or not with college Ewing at the 5?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 19, 2018 8:06:52 GMT -5
Size matters but not as much as it used to. If we've learned anything (or if Jay Wright has taught us anything) over the past 2-3 years big men in todays game have to be able to play away from the basket both offensively and defensively. They have to be able to score off the dribble, shoot the three and not be a swinging door on D. We have to let the whole "Big Man U" go and not worry about our bigs size so much. Question: do you think the other Villanova starting 4 (this year’s team) would have been better or not with college Ewing at the 5? Dude, it is way too early to start drinking. Clearly, Coach Ditka would beat Hurricane Ditka.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 19, 2018 8:11:58 GMT -5
Question: do you think the other Villanova starting 4 (this year’s team) would have been better or not with college Ewing at the 5? Dude, it is way too early to start drinking. Clearly, Coach Ditka would beat Hurricane Ditka. I’m looking forward to the dr’s answer.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Apr 19, 2018 22:28:52 GMT -5
Dude, it is way too early to start drinking. Clearly, Coach Ditka would beat Hurricane Ditka. I’m looking forward to the dr’s answer. How much better would they be? Slaughtered every team they played in the tourney including teams with huge big men. Have to wonder how college PE would fare in the 3 point era especially against a team like Nova. Game has just changed so much. I guess you're asking would I rather have college PE or Paschal? In today's game I'd take Paschal. Not the defensive monster PE was but much better shooter and much better handle.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 19, 2018 23:14:00 GMT -5
I’m looking forward to the dr’s answer. How much better would they be? Slaughtered every team they played in the tourney including teams with huge big men. Have to wonder how college PE would fare in the 3 point era especially against a team like Nova. Game has just changed so much. I guess you're asking would I rather have college PE or Paschal? In today's game I'd take Paschal. Not the defensive monster PE was but much better shooter and much better handle. Don’t know if you saw Pat’s college days, but there is a reason for all of his awards... and Pat was double- and tripled-teamed... plus he was nth times better than any defender on the Nova team... imagine Pat one-vs-one with the rest of the players around the perimeter! I think this idea that a traditional big cannot be a top player in college nowadays is a knee-jerk reaction to the Nova wins. The fact is Nova was playing with the POY controlling the game and two other projected first round picks (Bridges and DiV.), all with good experience not newbies, plus another 4 good all-around players. That’s what you need to win a championship any year. Remember when we had two first-rounders with good depth? How about when Duke won it’s last championship, do you know how many 3s Okafor took all year? Answer: Zero. How many did Kennedy Meeks take for last year’s champion UNC all year? Answer: Zero. No, to win it’s not necessary to have a big that steps out and hits from the perimeter. It’s college basketball. A dominaring traditional big will do. What’s needed is all-around talent that goes at least 7 deep, balance, chemistry, and experienced leaders... oh, and great coaching and recruiting helps. Give me college Pat any day over any college center in today’s game.
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