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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 6, 2024 9:16:13 GMT -5
It's also interesting how people rarely mention that Georgetown had fewer guys enter the portal than a lot of the other programs in the conference that were better than us. What do you mean? Last year we had 9 scholarship players and 7 eligible to return. Of those, 5 entered the portal and just two returned. That’s awful. If you’re saying we ONLY had 5, it’s because we didn’t have enough players to begin with. That is, 71% of the eligible players left. As for Cooley's retention, I have been on record--now multiple times--saying I wanted to retain Brumbuagh, Styles, and Cook. I am not happy we lost them, though I understand why we did. As far as retention, yes, Ed Cooley had a good record before Georgetown. Do I think that his record of retention at Georgetown in Year 1 after a horrible season was great? No. But, it's one season after we were horrible. And as you rightly point out, it is a "different world," and I think retaining players is much harder now than it was. The fact is that he was awful in building the team and retaining players this year, and it’s a wasted first year here. Cooley took responsibility for it. That said, there’s still time to turn it around and I’ve been on record that we are a big and a shooter away from having a real shot at the NCAAT next year. As far as Fairfield and Duke, your points are quite weak. The only thing I've said about Fairfield are that (a) Cooley turned them around, and (b) the defense was better generally than our defense last year. It's pretty obvious that Cooley wasn't getting prime talent at Fairfield, and yet he turned them around anyway, so I think the example is still useful. As far as Duke, you say "Duke is not a good example." Of what? I used them as an example of a team that lost 0 players to the portal last year, and 6 or 7 this year to show that the same coach can do an ace job of retention one year and a bad one the next year. Point being--even successful teams and coaches can lose players in this environment, and so retention is hard. That's it. I never used them as an example of a model Georgetown should follow. Quite weak? Humorous. Whatever worked for Cooley at Fairfield is not useful now. Different rules and different level. As Cooley told us, he never thought it was going to be so difficult to recruit the top portal players to Georgetown. As for Duke, Scheyer’s first class was small and fit into the roster he inherited (but recruited for K). This year’s class is a monster class to replace the future NBAers and recruit over what was there. One year cannot be compared to the other. It’ll be interesting to find out what kind of NIL$ Stewart and Power get from their new schools. I imagine most of Duke’s NIL$ is going to the top-class freshmen and transfers. There probably wasn’t much left for the #9-13 players. 1. My point is that we aren't necessarily an outlier here with the 5 transfers. But otherwise, I am not even sure where there is disagreement here. We didn't do a good job of retention this year. I've said I don't like it, at least with respect to Styles, Cook, and Brumbaugh. So yeah -- retention was not good. Would it be a bigger deal if we had been good? Yes, I think so. When you are horrible and you lose players, I don't see that as surprising. I still don't like it though. And we need Cooley to retain talent better going forward, especially from this incoming class. 2. I agree Cooley's first year was largely wasted. Again, no disagreement, it was an awful year. 3. If your position is that nothing any coach has done with respect to retention or turning around other teams before the last year or two is relevant because it's a new world and the environment has changed, then fine. I don't agree, but I understand it. And you're missing my point on Duke. The only point was to say that the same coach that retains a lot of players one year, can lose them another year. I am not holding them up as a comparison or analogue in any other way. I am not trying to defend Cooley's performance this past year. It was abysmal and way under my expectations. And I am increasingly frustrated at the lack of portal success this year, but the portal season is not over yet, either. But, like you, I think there's still time to turn it around.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2024 9:27:41 GMT -5
With Stewart I don't know if it was money. His dad seemed pretty set on him going to Ohio St. What evidence is there for this claim? And why would his dad prefer Ohio State over Georgetown?
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hoyariv71
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Post by hoyariv71 on May 6, 2024 9:36:24 GMT -5
Ohio state was his 2nd original choice, only logical if your 1st choice doesn’t 🏋️♂️ , I would assume most people choose their 2nd.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2024 10:29:05 GMT -5
I agree with posters that say we should recruit internationally more, would love to find some guys like this...
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 6, 2024 10:54:35 GMT -5
What do you mean? Last year we had 9 scholarship players and 7 eligible to return. Of those, 5 entered the portal and just two returned. That’s awful. If you’re saying we ONLY had 5, it’s because we didn’t have enough players to begin with. That is, 71% of the eligible players left. The fact is that he was awful in building the team and retaining players this year, and it’s a wasted first year here. Cooley took responsibility for it. That said, there’s still time to turn it around and I’ve been on record that we are a big and a shooter away from having a real shot at the NCAAT next year. Quite weak? Humorous. Whatever worked for Cooley at Fairfield is not useful now. Different rules and different level. As Cooley told us, he never thought it was going to be so difficult to recruit the top portal players to Georgetown. As for Duke, Scheyer’s first class was small and fit into the roster he inherited (but recruited for K). This year’s class is a monster class to replace the future NBAers and recruit over what was there. One year cannot be compared to the other. It’ll be interesting to find out what kind of NIL$ Stewart and Power get from their new schools. I imagine most of Duke’s NIL$ is going to the top-class freshmen and transfers. There probably wasn’t much left for the #9-13 players. 1. My point is that we aren't necessarily an outlier here with the 5 transfers. But otherwise, I am not even sure where there is disagreement here. We didn't do a good job of retention this year. I've said I don't like it, at least with respect to Styles, Cook, and Brumbaugh. So yeah -- retention was not good. Would it be a bigger deal if we had been good? Yes, I think so. When you are horrible and you lose players, I don't see that as surprising. I still don't like it though. And we need Cooley to retain talent better going forward, especially from this incoming class. 2. I agree Cooley's first year was largely wasted. Again, no disagreement, it was an awful year. 3. If your position is that nothing any coach has done with respect to retention or turning around other teams before the last year or two is relevant because it's a new world and the environment has changed, then fine. I don't agree, but I understand it. And you're missing my point on Duke. The only point was to say that the same coach that retains a lot of players one year, can lose them another year. I am not holding them up as a comparison or analogue in any other way. I am not trying to defend Cooley's performance this past year. It was abysmal and way under my expectations. A nd I am increasingly frustrated at the lack of portal success this year, but the portal season is not over yet, either. But, like you, I think there's still time to turn it around. You sure about that?
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on May 6, 2024 15:42:25 GMT -5
Ugonna Onenyso - do we have any chance to get him? He's not the upperclassman people hope for, but he is 7' tall with a 7.5' wingspan. Described as "has game-changing size and length, but also terrific defensive instincts. He was one of the most dominant shot-blockers in all of prep school basketball last year, after arriving at Putnam Science Academy for the second semester. While his defense is currently ahead of his offense, he has a soft natural touch to develop and is also both a lob threat and a rim-runner who changes ends particularly well for a player his size." (247 Sports)
Left Kentucky - in the portal. What do you think -- any chance?
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on May 6, 2024 16:29:11 GMT -5
With Stewart I don't know if it was money. His dad seemed pretty set on him going to Ohio St. Like Andy Clark's dad in The Breakfast Club?
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on May 6, 2024 17:43:34 GMT -5
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nbhoya
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Post by nbhoya on May 6, 2024 17:50:10 GMT -5
Looks like we’ll be rolling with freshmen
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on May 6, 2024 18:58:05 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 6, 2024 21:45:20 GMT -5
We should have gone after him but I didn’t see any indication that the staff had any interesting. He’s raw but has a lot of potential.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on May 7, 2024 5:14:41 GMT -5
How many inexperienced centers do you want on this roster? Do you miss the old days with Malcolm, Tim and Q?
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78HOYA78
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Post by 78HOYA78 on May 7, 2024 8:28:20 GMT -5
Looks like "small ball" it is. Seems to be our trend. Nova seems to have won their championships with any dominate big men. Maybe we can to. Just saying.
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78HOYA78
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Post by 78HOYA78 on May 7, 2024 8:30:22 GMT -5
Should have said without any dominate big men.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 7, 2024 8:42:57 GMT -5
Looks like "small ball" it is. Seems to be our trend. Nova seems to have won their championships with any dominate big men. Maybe we can to. Just saying. Nova’s championship teams were carefully crafted to be balanced teams with developed experience and talented depth, while young players waited their turn. Our team next year is very far from that position. The good news is that there’s still time to make a splash in the portal and to balance our team. Btw, talking about Nova, and for the small group of HTers who think that a team cannot win with a 6’1” guard, Knicks/Nova’s Brunson says hi after scoring 43 pts last night.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 7, 2024 9:06:46 GMT -5
Looks like "small ball" it is. Seems to be our trend. Nova seems to have won their championships with any dominate big men. Maybe we can to. Just saying. Nova’s championship teams were carefully crafted to be balanced teams with experience and depth, while young players waited their turn. Our team next year is very far from that position. The good news is that there’s still time to make a splash in the portal and to balance our team. Hope for a "splash" but may only get a "ripple"? Regardless I'm renewing my season tickets. Bring on Kenner! Go Hoyas!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 7, 2024 9:16:36 GMT -5
How many inexperienced centers do you want on this roster? Do you miss the old days with Malcolm, Tim and Q? I don't want inexperienced centers or low skilled centers. That's what we had in Tim Ighoefe and Malcon Wilson. By the end Qudus Wahab was an experienced, not great, but serviceable big. I know he became a punching bag on HoyaTalk, which I always thought was unfair, but if there was a Wahab in the portal available, I would take him in a heartbeat. I am pretty confident that if we had Wahab last year instead of Cook our defense would have been a good bit better (low bar here). I'd like an experienced center who is good defensively. There's still time but the available options are dwindling, as bigs do not grow on trees. If the only option is to buttress our roster with someone inexperienced then yes, I would take one player like that. The problem with Tim and Malcom is that they never developed into Big East quality players. My hope, if we got an inexperienced center with potential, would be that he would develop or be useful somewhat. I feel like I am picking up prhoya's mantle here, but we have 9 scholarship players. What's the plan for filling out the roster with 3-4 more players? I am totally fine with leaving one scholarship open, but not 4. The hope is that a big (or two) will fill that void. If we got two bigs, that would bring us to 11. Then add maybe another guard or wing, and we are at 12, which would be fine. I realize there's more guard/wing depth out there than bigs, but I am not willing to re-run last year where we are one injury from disaster. I don't know what the staff is cooking up, but at this point if no better bigs pan out, I might even want Cook back--not to take time away from Sorber or Fielder, but at least to give us depth. And Cook is a good offensive player against most opponents (those that do not have strong bigs). For the record, I think the roster we are going into next year with will be better than last year's. But right now, barring unexpectedly good performance from the freshman or current roster, I see us as maybe a 5-7 Big East win team next year. We really need to add another good piece or two, and the options are dwindling. I really had high hopes for this off season and while I am not fully losing hope, the window for this is closing rapidly.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 7, 2024 9:48:46 GMT -5
For the record, I think the roster we are going into next year with will be better than last year's. But right now, barring unexpectedly good performance from the freshman or current roster, I see us as maybe a 5-7 Big East win team next year. We really need to add another good piece or two, and the options are dwindling. I really had high hopes for this off season and while I am not fully losing hope, the window for this is closing rapidly. The program will not see progress, and donors will lose interest, if five wins is its ceiling over the next two years. The problem, though not unique to Georgetown, is that there is no experience on the court with its style of play. Even though the names change, Creighton is consistently good because the players fit the system; conversely, DePaul is consistently bad because the players didn't fit whatever passed for a system there--but that's about to change under Holtmann. Outside of Cook and Fielder, you had everyone playing their own style out there and opposing coaches can jump on this in games. Georgetown has no system right now and good coaches naturally pick it apart. The guard play has been rife with a lack of teamwork and a lack of defensive leadership that Hurley, McDermott, Smart, et al. have feasted on. If Epps can't play alongside Mack as he was not playing alongside Brumbaugh, things do not improve.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 7, 2024 9:49:29 GMT -5
"But right now, barring unexpectedly good performance from the freshman or current roster, I see us as maybe a 5-7 Big East win team next year. We really need to add another good piece or two, and the options are dwindling."
A low bar I know but 6 wins will be 3 times better than last season!
IIRC, I had predicted 6 wins for last season so in my view, we'd be a year behind in development but progressing.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on May 7, 2024 9:53:59 GMT -5
Have been following the back and forth but not posting as I recover from a very disappointing year. Had to weigh in on the thought that the Hoyas can succeed next year with a small ball lineup. While Nova and others have done quite well without a big dominant post, in each instance the key to success was quality perimeter shooters. Not certain I see who that will be on this team next year: Mack--perhaps. Can Epps convert from a volume shooter and hit 35% from deep? Not certain that you can rely upon two smallish guards as your best shooters. Peavy has never been a high percentage perimeter shooter. The freshmen? Fielder can hit from deep but can you afford to have him away from the basket with a small team? Have no answers, just questions.
Cooley is really going to be challenged to put together a team capable of playing decent basketball at both ends of the court. He was not my first choice for the position, but after enduring more years than we should with a completely inexperienced coach I am all in on giving Cooley the opportunity to see if he can turn this around, particularly since he has done it before even if it was during a different era of college basketball.
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