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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 14, 2017 14:55:19 GMT -5
Eventually, events occurred that saw Bill O’Brien and James Franklin hired... A technically well presented point of view. However, I threw up in my mouth a little at how this sentence was framed to create this forced comparison as if the "events" that occurred that forced the Penn State Administration to change the page on the Paterno's are at all analogous to the current situation at Georgetown. Actually a disgusting comparison. Exactly. Some reasoned points - but trying to compare our situation to Penn State was ridiculous. His last 4 seasons were 11-2, 11-2, 7-6 and 8-1. The disturbing reasons for his firing had NOTHING to do with the competitiveness of the program.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 14, 2017 14:59:18 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: If posters cannot treat others with respect and refrain from injecting profanity and unwarranted personal insults into the discussion, we will have to lock this thread. If particular posters continue despite warning, password privileges can and will be revoked.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 14, 2017 15:03:20 GMT -5
A technically well presented point of view. However, I threw up in my mouth a little at how this sentence was framed to create this forced comparison as if the "events" that occurred that forced the Penn State Administration to change the page on the Paterno's are at all analogous to the current situation at Georgetown. Actually a disgusting comparison. Exactly. Some reasoned points - but trying to compare our situation to Penn State was ridiculous. His last 4 seasons were 11-2, 11-2, 7-6 and 8-1. The disturbing reasons for his firing had NOTHING to do with the competitiveness of the program. To the author, what's really important was he wasn't winning Big Ten championships.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 14, 2017 15:04:18 GMT -5
Without getting into the merits of who is white or not and how race may (or may not) affect our perception of the program let's be clear about one thing: It all works as long as the team wins... JT2 didn't win because he was a mentor/father figure/trailblazer/icon, but rather was allowed to be the latter and raised his profile (and that of which he stood for) because he WON - the legend of JT2 doesn't happen without wins and win he did... a lot.. JT3 is a very different kind of man/coach yet he found his spot immediately in all our hearts because he WON... Soft spoken, many of his players reflect their coach (much like his father's did), sometimes a little too nice, a little too passive but as long as he won... We have stopped winning and we are out of excuses - bad luck? sure, rule changes? yep... you name it, it contributed in part to the current situation but we are past the point of fixing - it's broken - fans are leaving, players are leaving, recruits are leaving, money flow is slowing... so change is necessary... Personally I think the clean slate approach should get a lot of attention and consideration... we need change in a major way I don't disagree with going outside the Georgetown/Thompson umbrella for a new coach. But I think totally and intentionally disassociating ourselves from Pops would be a huge mistake. Granted it may take some delicate and complicated negotiations to accomplish both(maybe that is why we are in radio silence right now?), but I believe it is critical to the continuation of the Hoya brand to figure it out.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 14, 2017 15:12:37 GMT -5
I keep reading that we should bring in Patrick Ewing as a coach or how will JTII react to a new coach. Here is a novel idea – Georgetown should part ways with both JTII and JTIII. It is time for a clean slate at Georgetown. First, bringing in new leadership team is done routinely in private business and the military. When a person or people retain power too long, they get too comfortable, develop groupthink, ideas get stale, and they ultimately lose the internal drive to be the best. None of this is conscious, but simply human nature. New leadership brings new vigor, fresh ideas, and a new direction. Second, the current way is just not working. I am not specifically referring to the on court product (which has been debated on this board.) But how the basketball program interacts with the student body, the fans, and the press. I get part of Georgetown basketball was their defiant attitude. Life was Georgetown versus the world, and the team retreated into solitude and secrecy. Fast forward thirty years and we are still holding onto this past. But today social media and around the clock news inundate us. Yet, Georgetown remains quite, practicing in seclusion and bunkering down in the campus footprint. In contrast, look at what Jay Wright is doing. He is always on social media and the basketball team makes regular appearances in the community. Jay Wright has a radio show that takes place in the Villanova town. The fans feel like they are more a part of what is taking place rather than just watching the on-court product. JTII built the basketball program and raised the awareness of the school in general. He mentored many of the young men he coached. But, this is what a coach is SUPPOSED to do. For this, he has been granted a lifetime fiefdom at the school and his name memorialized. And what real purpose does he serve at the school now? I assume he advises the school administration and fundraises? That is great, but from a pure business decision, is this relationship really working for Georgetown anymore? The school owes the Thompson family nothing. The school and Nike have made him wealthy beyond his wildest dreams. It has treated him and his family very well. If we say goodbye to the Thompson family and JTII responds by going scorched earth, that fact says more about him as a person than the school. Further, JTII has very little footprint on the campus. He has the ability to positively affect the campus in other areas besides basketball. For example, he could teach a class, be more public in support of the other sports programs on campus, and rally student support. He could have donated his own money to build the facility that bears his name – he did not. There is a precedent for this type of situation. I grew up in PA and a Penn State football fan. The last decade of Joe Paterno’s reign involved the same conversation-taking place now. The program had some bad years, a few good years, but mostly slightly above average years. The administration refused to act, even though groupthink and nepotism permeated the program. Fans argued that the school owed Joe Paterno and the next coach must be a Penn Stater, ie, a Joe Paterno guy. Eventually, events occurred that saw Bill O’Brien and James Franklin hired, neither having ties to Paterno or the program? The result? Yes, some recent on the field success. But more importantly, the program has seen a renaissance. The fan base is excited. Recruits are excited. Relationships grew tense with high school coaches in the state because Penn State felt they were beyond building personnel relationships – the status of the program spoke for itself. The result, animosity and the inability for PSU to recruit the state like they did in the 70’s and 80’s. The new coaches have made it a priority to re-build these relationships, and the by-product is excitement among the high school coaches and the ability to recruit the state. The Thompsons have done a lot for the school and the basketball program. They seem like good people and have represented the school well. As a former student and fan, this fact makes me proud and I am appreciative. But running a school is a business. It is time that the school makes the decision to move forward without the Thompson’s directing the programs course of events. Limited NCAA success and two losing seasons have precipitated discussion of whether JTIII should be the coach, but the source of the problem runs deeper. To really move forward, both Thompson’s need to be removed and a coach with no ties to the university needs to be brought in to develop a new tradition. Villanova does not talk anymore about their 85 championship and Rollie Massimino. They talk about their 2016 championship and Jay Wright. Georgetown needs to concern itself with its future, not is past. We can only do that by moving on from the remnants of that past. Deleted We Are Gtown!... We Are Not Nova... The school doesn't owe the Thompson's anything??? Are you white? Hmm...I'm trying to see where this is going. No, it's not a coach's job to mentor. This is something they chose to do out of the kindness of their hearts. Some of these kids have no father, no direction. John Thompson Jr. is a legend deleted are you talking about??? Holding onto the past??? You can never forget about the past!!! You all say this when black people seek out their history and culture!!! Glide, I understand the frustration The school can always get another brother, there are plenty of qualified candidates. I know what the school means to the community and the history of John Thompson II as the first African-American to win a National Championship. But if the current course of losing continues, who from the next generation is going to remember what the program was except for old heads telling the story of what once was?
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2017 15:16:55 GMT -5
Without getting into the merits of who is white or not and how race may (or may not) affect our perception of the program let's be clear about one thing: It all works as long as the team wins... JT2 didn't win because he was a mentor/father figure/trailblazer/icon, but rather was allowed to be the latter and raised his profile (and that of which he stood for) because he WON - the legend of JT2 doesn't happen without wins and win he did... a lot.. JT3 is a very different kind of man/coach yet he found his spot immediately in all our hearts because he WON... Soft spoken, many of his players reflect their coach (much like his father's did), sometimes a little too nice, a little too passive but as long as he won... We have stopped winning and we are out of excuses - bad luck? sure, rule changes? yep... you name it, it contributed in part to the current situation but we are past the point of fixing - it's broken - fans are leaving, players are leaving, recruits are leaving, money flow is slowing... so change is necessary... Personally I think the clean slate approach should get a lot of attention and consideration... we need change in a major way I don't disagree with going outside the Georgetown/Thompson umbrella for a new coach. But I think totally and intentionally disassociating ourselves from Pops would be a huge mistake. Granted it may take some delicate and complicated negotiations to accomplish both(maybe that is why we are in radio silence right now?), but I believe it is critical to the continuation of the Hoya brand to figure it out. The Hoyas national brand is associated with the Thompson's and the impact they had on African American and inner city youths across the nation during the 80s and early 90s when there were few African American head coaches and alot of the blue bloods fielded predominantly white teams (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky). Of course the blue bloods now field more diverse teams and things have changed since 30 years ago but I think the national brand for the Hoyas is primarily linked to that older fan base (and their kids) that embraced the positive role models and diversity that the Hoyas and the Thompsons provided. Cutting off the Thompsons and hiring outside the program has the potential of losing that national brand recognition in which case it just becomes a local and alumni brand.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 14, 2017 15:19:13 GMT -5
I don't disagree with going outside the Georgetown/Thompson umbrella for a new coach. But I think totally and intentionally disassociating ourselves from Pops would be a huge mistake. Granted it may take some delicate and complicated negotiations to accomplish both(maybe that is why we are in radio silence right now?), but I believe it is critical to the continuation of the Hoya brand to figure it out. The Hoyas national brand is associated with the Thompson's and the impact they had on African American and inner city youths across the nation during the 80s and early 90s when there were few African American head coaches and alot of the blue bloods fielded predominantly white teams (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky). Of course the blue bloods now field more diverse teams and things have changed since 30 years ago but I think the national brand for the Hoyas is primarily linked to that older fan base (and their kids) that embraced the positive role models and diversity that the Hoyas and the Thompsons provided. Cutting off the Thompsons and hiring outside the program has the potential of losing that national brand recognition in which case it just becomes a local and alumni brand. Except for a couple of years of Tubby Smith at Kentucky the Blue Bloods don't usually have minority coaches.
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by 757hoyafan on Mar 14, 2017 15:23:40 GMT -5
Lol @ asking ole boy if he's white.
CHH - you can not cherry pick though. Otto signed on and played for JTIII. I guess we can go to the Duke board and say Grant would've been a Hoya if they didn't ask him to read out loud. It happened. We move on.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 14, 2017 15:29:02 GMT -5
I don't disagree with going outside the Georgetown/Thompson umbrella for a new coach. But I think totally and intentionally disassociating ourselves from Pops would be a huge mistake. Granted it may take some delicate and complicated negotiations to accomplish both(maybe that is why we are in radio silence right now?), but I believe it is critical to the continuation of the Hoya brand to figure it out. The Hoyas national brand is associated with the Thompson's and the impact they had on African American and inner city youths across the nation during the 80s and early 90s when there were few African American head coaches and alot of the blue bloods fielded predominantly white teams (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky). Of course the blue bloods now field more diverse teams and things have changed since 30 years ago but I think the national brand for the Hoyas is primarily linked to that older fan base (and their kids) that embraced the positive role models and diversity that the Hoyas and the Thompsons provided. Cutting off the Thompsons and hiring outside the program has the potential of losing that national brand recognition in which case it just becomes a local and alumni brand. Predominantly white teams at Kentucky and Kansas in the 1980s and 1990s? Sorry - that's false. "Predominantly white" was not even true about Duke - but they definitely had more white players than most other elite programs in those decades. They also went to 8 final fours.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2017 15:40:44 GMT -5
The Hoyas national brand is associated with the Thompson's and the impact they had on African American and inner city youths across the nation during the 80s and early 90s when there were few African American head coaches and alot of the blue bloods fielded predominantly white teams (Duke, Kansas, Kentucky). Of course the blue bloods now field more diverse teams and things have changed since 30 years ago but I think the national brand for the Hoyas is primarily linked to that older fan base (and their kids) that embraced the positive role models and diversity that the Hoyas and the Thompsons provided. Cutting off the Thompsons and hiring outside the program has the potential of losing that national brand recognition in which case it just becomes a local and alumni brand. Predominantly white teams at Kentucky and Kansas in the 1980s and 1990s? Sorry - that's false. "Predominantly white" was not even true about Duke - but they definitely had more white players than most other elite programs in those decades. They also went to 8 final fours. Actually it's true. Those Kansas and Kentucky teams were pretty white comparatively speaking. Those Danny Manning teams. Those Mark Randall, Rex Walters (Half White, Half Asian) Kevin Pritchard teams. You look at those starting lineups and they would usually have one or two African American Players like Paul Pierce or Darrin Hancock on them. Even into the 2000s with the Osertag-LaFrentz=Collison-Henircich teams. Alot of it was because they didn't recruit nationally but more regionally until Bill Self came.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 14, 2017 22:32:17 GMT -5
What? Asking if a poster is white is out of line. And ignorant. No, it's not because I'm African in America. Who says me asking about if someone was white was out of line? You? Your privilege? Race baiting??? Again, most racists say this which is ignorant, not me. I'm conscious! You guru? Hmmm... I'll wait. Your move. Is this a joke?
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 14, 2017 22:39:14 GMT -5
No, it's not because I'm African in America. Who says me asking about if someone was white was out of line? You? Your privilege? Race baiting??? Again, most racists say this which is ignorant, not me. I'm conscious! You guru? Hmmm... I'll wait. Your move. Is this a joke? This was incited by guru who doesn't like the African American community. Just read the posts but most have been deleted.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,599
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Post by guru on Mar 14, 2017 23:00:04 GMT -5
This was incited by guru who doesn't like the African American community. Just read the posts but most have been deleted. Wow. That's out of line even for an old drunk like yourself. Have another one. There have been no deleted posts. Respond if you wish. I won't see it. Back to ignore for you.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 14, 2017 23:02:23 GMT -5
This was incited by guru who doesn't like the African American community. Just read the posts but most have been deleted. Wow. That's out of line even for an old drunk like yourself. Have another one. There have been no deleted posts. Respond if you wish. I won't see it. Back to ignore for you. Right still upset when I called you out for one of the most nonsensical drunken posts? You don't hold a grudge or project much do you Guru?
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Mar 15, 2017 0:05:40 GMT -5
Eventually, events occurred that saw Bill O’Brien and James Franklin hired... A technically well presented point of view. However, I threw up in my mouth a little at how this sentence was framed to create this forced comparison as if the "events" that occurred that forced the Penn State Administration to change the page on the Paterno's are at all analogous to the current situation at Georgetown. Actually a disgusting comparison. The Penn State/ Georgetown comparison ended the credibility of this article.
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