DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 2, 2020 9:35:12 GMT -5
Don't forget administration on the list... The administration isn't holding basketball back. There has been a run of poor decisions in recruiting and the results lead to where we are now. Below are the signed freshman and JC recruits since 2017. Jahvon Blair Jamorko Pickett Chris Sodom Antwan Walker James Akinjo Grayson CarterJosh LeBlanc Mac McClung Galen AlexanderMyron Gardner Timothy Ighoefe Malcolm Wilson Qudus Wahab
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 2, 2020 9:40:36 GMT -5
Take out Walker — who was a JT3 recruit and the two grad transfers (Greg M not listed) and Ewing and staff are 50% in keeping kids they recruited in the program— and no one leaving early for successful reasons. Horrific at best. Cannot build a winning program that way. Pat needs better folks around him. Confident he can win with the right players.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 2, 2020 10:13:25 GMT -5
Big if, but if we had all of the players on the departed list and they all bought into the team concept, we could easily be a top-ten team.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 2, 2020 10:34:39 GMT -5
Don't forget administration on the list... The administration isn't holding basketball back. There has been a run of poor decisions in recruiting and the results lead to where we are now. Below are the signed freshman and JC recruits since 2017. Jahvon Blair Jamorko Pickett Chris Sodom Antwan Walker James Akinjo Grayson CarterJosh LeBlanc Mac McClung Galen AlexanderMyron Gardner Timothy Ighoefe Malcolm Wilson Qudus Wahab Fair enough, But how much is it helping him?
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Jan 2, 2020 11:28:25 GMT -5
The administration isn't holding basketball back. There has been a run of poor decisions in recruiting and the results lead to where we are now. Below are the signed freshman and JC recruits since 2017. Jahvon Blair Jamorko Pickett Chris Sodom Antwan Walker James Akinjo Grayson CarterJosh LeBlanc Mac McClung Galen AlexanderMyron Gardner Timothy Ighoefe Malcolm Wilson Qudus Wahab Fair enough, But how much is it helping him? Would I be stepping over the line if I say that many of the players who have been exiled from GU would find a way to stay and remain eligible at many other programs because the schools find a way? I say yes but I appreciate GU's stance, it's more than the on court results. The circumstances this season may eventually be the death blow for Ewing's tenure as a successful head coach at GU but he was on his way to developing a quality program and he may yet recover but it's definitely an uphill battle from here out.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 2, 2020 13:06:16 GMT -5
Fair enough, But how much is it helping him? Would I be stepping over the line if I say that many of the players who have been exiled from GU would find a way to stay and remain eligible at many other programs because the schools find a way? I say yes but I appreciate GU's stance, it's more than the on court results. The circumstances this season may eventually be the death blow for Ewing's tenure as a successful head coach at GU but he was on his way to developing a quality program and he may yet recover but it's definitely an uphill battle from here out. Not sure where you're going with this but 5 of the 7 players who are no longer with the team since PE took the job left on their own not due to any stance Gtown took regarding their status...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 2, 2020 13:12:27 GMT -5
Not surprised in his decision, but still hurts. Third full recruiting cycle for Pat and there's not much to show for it at this point. I'm not blaming Coach, it's just frustrating how everything has worked out. We need some talent As someone else said, it's impossible to question Ewing's hard work, which is evident as he's constantly out on the trail. Like you, I am disappointed that it hasn't really manifested in much in the way of results. The Akinjo/LeBlanc/McClung class was really good, but as we know 2 of the 3 are gone, and there's nobody in the pipeline other than Sibley and Harris. I do think it is unfair to go after the kid. We've recruited guys who have decommitted from elsewhere (like McClung, or going farther back, Chris Wright), it happens. While there was some smoke here before the recent transfers, you cannot blame the kid if that contributed to his decision making. Ultimately, I don't see how you can fault a kid for going to a program like Michigan that has had so much recent success, not to mention Michigan is a fine academic institution, as well. Unless we start putting out a quality product that makes the tournament, recruiting is not going to get easier. And, while I think we have a decent chance at the tournament this season barring more injuries (and a quick McClung return), it's hard to envision being back there anytime soon given how short our roster is next season. Other than the base of McClung, Pickett, Blair, and the project bigs, it's looking like a major rebuild year next season.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 2, 2020 13:57:21 GMT -5
Not surprised in his decision, but still hurts. Third full recruiting cycle for Pat and there's not much to show for it at this point. I'm not blaming Coach, it's just frustrating how everything has worked out. We need some talent As someone else said, it's impossible to question Ewing's hard work, which is evident as he's constantly out on the trail. Like you, I am disappointed that it hasn't really manifested in much in the way of results. The Akinjo/LeBlanc/McClung class was really good, but as we know 2 of the 3 are gone, and there's nobody in the pipeline other than Sibley and Harris. I do think it is unfair to go after the kid. We've recruited guys who have decommitted from elsewhere (like McClung, or going farther back, Chris Wright), it happens. While there was some smoke here before the recent transfers, you cannot blame the kid if that contributed to his decision making. Ultimately, I don't see how you can fault a kid for going to a program like Michigan that has had so much recent success, not to mention Michigan is a fine academic institution, as well. Unless we start putting out a quality product that makes the tournament, recruiting is not going to get easier. And, while I think we have a decent chance at the tournament this season barring more injuries (and a quick McClung return), it's hard to envision being back there anytime soon given how short our roster is next season. Other than the base of McClung, Pickett, Blair, and the project bigs, it's looking like a major rebuild year next season. Sustainability is the key and in this transfer environment, you can't count on a roster two years out let alone one. Ewing will need to hit some out of the park in the Spring for us to build the overall talent level to where we can be top 1/3 of the league every year which is where we should be. I love his effort though.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 2, 2020 14:06:42 GMT -5
Part of recruiting is not just identifiying talented players, but also finding talent that is complementary and where the kids understand and accept their role from Day 1. Anyone looking at the McClung/Akinjo combo last year could tell that both players wanted the ball and both players wanted their shot. I always thought they were better individually than when paired together. Seems now that only one was willing to accept his role. Glad he stayed.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 2, 2020 15:09:57 GMT -5
There comes a point in most athletes’ lives where you plateau. All the effort you put in can no longer make you a star at the next level.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 2, 2020 16:47:09 GMT -5
[Sustainability is the key and in this transfer environment, you can't count on a roster two years out let alone one. Ewing will need to hit some out of the park in the Spring for us to build the overall talent level to where we can be top 1/3 of the league every year which is where we should be. I love his effort though. I agree, and while transfers seem to be at or close to all-time high levels, keep in mind that 4 transfers mid-season - including two starters or starter-level players - is extremely rare. What happened to the team this season is definitely not normal, and it's going to have a lasting impact, unfortunately. And I think that impact will likely be felt more not only through the Big East season, but especially next season.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 2, 2020 17:15:13 GMT -5
[Sustainability is the key and in this transfer environment, you can't count on a roster two years out let alone one. Ewing will need to hit some out of the park in the Spring for us to build the overall talent level to where we can be top 1/3 of the league every year which is where we should be. I love his effort though. I agree, and while transfers seem to be at or close to all-time high levels, keep in mind that 4 transfers mid-season - including two starters or starter-level players - is extremely rare. What happened to the team this season is definitely not normal, and it's going to have a lasting impact, unfortunately. And I think that impact will likely be felt more not only through the Big East season, but especially next season. You're right, but I keep telling myself that the transfer environment (including grad transfers) is evolving to the point where the changes at GU might just be in the forefront of a new normal. This is likely in the category of "hope springs eternal," but perhaps it's not going to be as hard to replace losses now and in the future as it has been because others are coming from elsewhere. It's not really the desired way to build a team, but the bodies may be out there.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 2, 2020 17:19:58 GMT -5
Rodney Prior was an absolute beast.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 2, 2020 17:28:26 GMT -5
Rodney Prior was an absolute beast. Totally agree. But he "needed the ball." If there was a problem with Akinjo and Mac, just imagine Rodney as a third in that mix. I always thought LJ did a pretty unselfish job of mixing in with Rodney.
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Post by nattybumpo3152 on Jan 2, 2020 22:14:43 GMT -5
Please explain why PE should, under any theory, be held accountable for what happened to Gardner, LeBlanc or Alexander? OTHER PEOPLE filed restraining orders against them. Ewing had nothing to do with their misbehavior. Same thing would have happened to any other coach. Akinjo couldn't handle sharing the spotlight with Mac McClung and I really think Akinjo felt inferior athletically to McClung who, at the same height, was faster, quicker, could jump higher and flat out play basketball better than Akinjo. McClung is an athlete of exceptional talent. You look at some of the things he does and you know right away that only a small percentage of high level players can match McClung. Take, for example, that finger roll move a few games ago. It's mind blowing what McClung can do athletically. He's not 6'4" with a 10' wingspan, but who says you have to possess those assets to become a superior athlete? We can talk about Jerry West, Iverson, Stockton, Nash and others who just have that special something. McClung has it, and Akinjo doesn't. Maybe he gets playing time on Arizona, but what does that prove? McClung right now can start for any Div 1 team in the nation.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 2, 2020 22:49:03 GMT -5
Please explain why PE should, under any theory, be held accountable for what happened to Gardner, LeBlanc or Alexander? OTHER PEOPLE filed restraining orders against them. Ewing had nothing to do with their misbehavior. Same thing would have happened to any other coach. Akinjo couldn't handle sharing the spotlight with Mac McClung and I really think Akinjo felt inferior athletically to McClung who, at the same height, was faster, quicker, could jump higher and flat out play basketball better than Akinjo. McClung is an athlete of exceptional talent. You look at some of the things he does and you know right away that only a small percentage of high level players can match McClung. Take, for example, that finger roll move a few games ago. It's mind blowing what McClung can do athletically. He's not 6'4" with a 10' wingspan, but who says you have to possess those assets to become a superior athlete? We can talk about Jerry West, Iverson, Stockton, Nash and others who just have that special something. McClung has it, and Akinjo doesn't. Maybe he gets playing time on Arizona, but what does that prove? McClung right now can start for any Div 1 team in the nation. This makes zero sense. You're saying a coach can't be faulted in any way when his players misbehave unless he was complicit in their misbehavior?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 3, 2020 10:08:24 GMT -5
Rodney Prior was an absolute beast. Totally agree. But he "needed the ball." If there was a problem with Akinjo and Mac, just imagine Rodney as a third in that mix. I always thought LJ did a pretty unselfish job of mixing in with Rodney. That team didn't make the tourney though. Our overall skill level has been non-tourney level for awhile which is pretty embarrassing considering how easy it is to make the tourney.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 3, 2020 15:01:03 GMT -5
Please explain why PE should, under any theory, be held accountable for what happened to Gardner, LeBlanc or Alexander? OTHER PEOPLE filed restraining orders against them. Ewing had nothing to do with their misbehavior. Same thing would have happened to any other coach. Akinjo couldn't handle sharing the spotlight with Mac McClung and I really think Akinjo felt inferior athletically to McClung who, at the same height, was faster, quicker, could jump higher and flat out play basketball better than Akinjo. McClung is an athlete of exceptional talent. You look at some of the things he does and you know right away that only a small percentage of high level players can match McClung. Take, for example, that finger roll move a few games ago. It's mind blowing what McClung can do athletically. He's not 6'4" with a 10' wingspan, but who says you have to possess those assets to become a superior athlete? We can talk about Jerry West, Iverson, Stockton, Nash and others who just have that special something. McClung has it, and Akinjo doesn't. Maybe he gets playing time on Arizona, but what does that prove? McClung right now can start for any Div 1 team in the nation. Like a CEO that is responsible for the way a corporation runs and it's financial failures (regardless of whether the CEO himself or herself was a direct cause of the failure), a head coach is responsible for every facet of the program. I realize this might seem like an oxymoron, but I think it's possible to (a) not blame Ewing for the personal actions of any of the players in question, while at the same time (b) holding him responsible for the fact that he lost 4 guys mid-season. I know that it's now fashionable to dump all over Akinjo, but to me that's the most concerning transfer, even if Akinjo had his faults. The guy had the keys to the team, Ewing bent over backwards to give him a ton of playing time and control (even when it was detrimental to the team), and he decided to leave anyway. To me that is among the most disturbing things in this whole episode, and yet most fans are content just bashing Akinjo.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Jan 4, 2020 12:02:14 GMT -5
The Athletic (subscription) has an interview today with Williams and his dad about decommitting from Georgetown and then shifting to Michigan. some highlights:
-Dad feels he pressured Terrance into his initial Georgetown decision. Dad said that Georgetown was "my dream, not his". this is why he did not sign a letter of intent. He wanted to keep things open to see how he felt about Georgetown over time. So he was never truly committed to Georgetown. Williams dad is apparently a very big guy physically, with a matching personality. He seems to have some self-awareness about the fact that he can be pretty forceful with his opinions
-When the transfer stuff went down, Williams talked to his family and said that he really was never ready to commit to Georgetown, and he felt that he needed to pull out of the commitment. It sounds like this was going to happen eventually even without the transfers, they just served to provide Williams with a moment of clarity to step up and take control of his future by being completely honest with his dad about where he stood on his college decision.
-Williams and his dad met personally with Ewing to tell him that he was pulling out of his Hoya commitment. I was happy to read that they felt it as important to do this face to face. And the dad wanted to be part of it to take some of the responsibility for pressuring Terrance into his initial Georgetown decision before Terrance was ready.
-Martelli going to Michigan was the key to his decision to go to Michigan. Martelli was one of the first coaches to recruit him when Phil was at St. Joe's, and Williams really likes him. But as Williams improved and got higher level programs interested, he dropped St. Joe's from his recruiting.
-when Martelli was hired at Michigan, Williams decided to consider them. Howard recruited him late, likely on Martelli's recommendation. Nothing particularly sleazy here, Howard asked Williams if he was still open to considering other schools and Williams told him he was. Sounds like Howard contacted him before he formally de-committed. But the fact that he did not sign an LOI plus Martelli's rec led Howard to reach out to him. Maybe some would consider this a sleazy move, but this is a serious business and I would think most coaches would do pretty much what Howard did. I have a hard time viewing this as problematic behavior on Howard/Martelli's part.
-The main takeaway from the article for me - I doubt that Williams was ever really, in his heart, planning to come to Georgetown. He had nothing bad to say about Georgetown/Ewing. It seems that his dad pretty much pressured him into the initial Hoya commitment when Terrance was not ready to make this decision. The dad was very clear in the interview that he takes the responsibility for the initial commitment being made before Terrance was ready.
-I guess this interview made me feel somewhat better about the whole Williams situation. he never should have committed to us in the first place. I bet that Ewing had a good sense of what was going on, given how aggressively he went after Sibley even after we got the Williams commitment. Nothing really surprising in the interview, but I found it helpful to get the full story.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 4, 2020 12:26:21 GMT -5
Soon, even the dads of recruits won’t remember our glory days. Objects in the rearview mirror are getting further in the distance.
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