njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 7, 2017 11:22:32 GMT -5
Unless there is a significant monetary penalty attached to any potential invite that the Big East may tender to UConn, including but not limited to assignment of television rights revenues, I'd be in favor of taking a pass. They will bolt for the first potential suitor from the Power 5 without a moment's hesitation.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 7, 2017 11:27:02 GMT -5
Unless there is a significant monetary penalty attached to any potential invite that the Big East may tender to UConn, including but not limited to assignment of television rights revenues, I'd be in favor of taking a pass. They will bolt for the first potential suitor from the Power 5 without a moment's hesitation. If a Big East team were offered a associate membership in the Power 5, how many fellow schools would do the same? Maybe not Georgetown, but some others would.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 7, 2017 12:44:40 GMT -5
A completely different set of circumstances but a monetary penalty along the lines of those imposed but not completely implemented in the dying days of the old BE. Even though it's never going to happen, I would like to see the complete repayment of the 20 plus mil that Uconn has and continues to receive from the BE upon the dissolution of the original conference. Essentially what was paid to keep the Big East name.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Feb 7, 2017 13:02:38 GMT -5
The money across the board to the Big 5 is about to take a giant hit. The mega media contracts of a few short years ago are and will continue to bleed red onto the bottom line of both the Mouse,CBS et all. Not sure how it will all shake out but significant changes will occur over the next 5 years if not sooner regarding how the product is delivered. Who knows how this will impact conference structure.
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McBricks
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Post by McBricks on Feb 7, 2017 13:18:27 GMT -5
I'm in favor of letting them come back to the BEfor basketball only but I do agree that there has to be a substantial/ridiculous penalty if they decide to bolt for another conference in a few years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2017 13:44:27 GMT -5
Who cares if they leave? It's not like the league would crumble again.
And they're not jumping in lightly either.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 7, 2017 14:48:14 GMT -5
Unless there is a significant monetary penalty attached to any potential invite that the Big East may tender to UConn, including but not limited to assignment of television rights revenues, I'd be in favor of taking a pass. They will bolt for the first potential suitor from the Power 5 without a moment's hesitation. If a Big East team were offered a associate membership in the Power 5, how many fellow schools would do the same? Maybe not Georgetown, but some others would. I am not sure what the Big East's penalties are for leaving, but I think it's safe to say that unless the penalties are such that it would make it difficult, teams would jump at the opportunity to join a major conference as an associate member. I mean, as much as people hate on the ACC, if they offered Villanova and Georgetown a chance to join for basketball only, and it was feasible (not saying it is), it would be extremely hard to say no. But, this is never going to happen. I think the Big East will remain stable as long as it doesn't do anything stupid like expanding senselessly. Connecticut is really the only expansion option that makes sense given their history and their large alumni base close enough to NY to really give a boost to the Big East tournament attendance. Nobody else is even close.
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DudeSlade
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Post by DudeSlade on Feb 7, 2017 15:01:14 GMT -5
For pure marketing purposes and national attention, I think you have to seriously consider bringing UConn in. They are one of the historically elite programs in the country and are not far removed from the national championship. But don't put the league in a weird spot with 11 teams where everyone is expecting a 12th at some point or the eventual loss of a team to get even. If you add UConn, you need to add another strong name to get to 12.
Agreed that we do not want to see teams bolt again and take brand equity away from the league. The 10 that are in it now seem to be committed to a strong basketball league and don't seem likely to leave. We also have the reigning national champion and 3 other ranked teams right now with a couple of other historically better programs like Gtown and Marquette (it's been too long for Depaul to be included in that group), so the brand equity of the Big East is strong right now. Instead of penalties, which they will pay with a large enough reason to leave, what about contractual agreements to stay for a given number of years (say, 10?). Is that feasible/legal? Then at least you know you have a given number of years of stability, which should in theory make your broadcast rights and marketing value higher because there's no question about whether a team will jump ship.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 7, 2017 16:09:33 GMT -5
I am not sure what the Big East's penalties are for leaving, but I think it's safe to say that unless the penalties are such that it would make it difficult, teams would jump at the opportunity to join a major conference as an associate member. I mean, as much as people hate on the ACC, if they offered Villanova and Georgetown a chance to join for basketball only, and it was feasible (not saying it is), it would be extremely hard to say no. But, this is never going to happen. I think the Big East will remain stable as long as it doesn't do anything stupid like expanding senselessly. Never say never. If ESPN wanted to stir up some trouble with the next Fox (or MSG) contract by luring a St. John's or a Villanova to another league for TV reasons, it's at least a scenario. Who was thinking a decade ago Creighton would play in the Big East and West Virginia would play in the Big 12?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 7, 2017 16:35:21 GMT -5
I am not sure what the Big East's penalties are for leaving, but I think it's safe to say that unless the penalties are such that it would make it difficult, teams would jump at the opportunity to join a major conference as an associate member. I mean, as much as people hate on the ACC, if they offered Villanova and Georgetown a chance to join for basketball only, and it was feasible (not saying it is), it would be extremely hard to say no. But, this is never going to happen. I think the Big East will remain stable as long as it doesn't do anything stupid like expanding senselessly. Never say never. If ESPN wanted to stir up some trouble with the next Fox (or MSG) contract by luring a St. John's or a Villanova to another league for TV reasons, it's at least a scenario. Who was thinking a decade ago Creighton would play in the Big East and West Virginia would play in the Big 12? That's true, but ESPN is significantly suffering from a loss of subscribers and paying huge sums for various sports rights across a wide variety of sports. By the time the Fox Sports contract is up for renewal, I think that ESPN will be in such a troubled state that it will have bigger fish to fry. That said, you're right that circumstances change. So, you never know.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 7, 2017 16:37:27 GMT -5
For pure marketing purposes and national attention, I think you have to seriously consider bringing UConn in. They are one of the historically elite programs in the country and are not far removed from the national championship. But don't put the league in a weird spot with 11 teams where everyone is expecting a 12th at some point or the eventual loss of a team to get even. If you add UConn, you need to add another strong name to get to 12. On this, I disagree. You either go to 11 with Connecticut, or don't expand at all for the reason you state - you'd need to add "another strong name" and none exist. You can always point to a hot mid-major team (like VCU), but keep in mind that when the Big East started out people wanted to add St. Louis. Take a look at how that would have turned out - I am glad they didn't make any bone-headed moves like that. Also, there's no reason you cannot have 11. Conferences have had odd numbers in the past, and the ACC has 15 right now for basketball. There doesn't need to be an expectation that you will add a 12th. Nobody can force them to do that. And, adding a 12th team doesn't in any way reduce the likelihood that another team will leave. In fact, if Connecticut did leave after joining, I prefer a situation where you can go back to 10, rather than being forced to add another weak team simply to fill a spot. The Big East is strong because it's a great basketball conference. You cannot improve on that by adding weak teams. Plus, adding a 12th makes a round robin format impossible, whereas 11 does not. For a variety of reasons, Xavier, Butler, and Creighton were all very good additions. Beyond that, there really isn't much out there of similar quality.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Feb 7, 2017 17:17:49 GMT -5
I was always "wait and see" on SLU, but I haven't seen anything since the musical chairs started that would make me think VCU would be an albatross for the Big East. If UConn joined and they stayed at 11, I'd be ok with that. If UConn brought along VCU, I could live with that too.
Interesting case is WSU. Consistent rumors they're trying to bolt MWC and would make a lot of sense in AAC (pair with Navy). Selfishly, I wouldn't want that, too mutually beneficial. They haven't had to change coaches yet but if the Koch brothers want, they can throw more money than god at a coach and would benefit from playing Memphis/Cincy/SMU/UConn/etc.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Feb 7, 2017 19:14:18 GMT -5
You can always point to a hot mid-major team (like VCU), but keep in mind that when the Big East started out people wanted to add St. Louis. Take a look at how that would have turned out - I am glad they didn't make any bone-headed moves like that. I don't think this is a good comparison. SLU was good for exactly three seasons. That is not enough time and they never should have been considered. I agree on that. But VCU has been good for a pretty long time now. Their average KenPom ranking over the last 16 seasons (which are all available seasons on KenPom) is 64. And of course if you weigh recent seasons more heavily that number would look better (avg = 43 over last 10 seasons). In the NBE, the average KenPom ranking of the ten teams has been 63. So VCU would fit right in. They also bring another east-coast team with a big fan base that would travel to MSG. And the other arguments against them - public school / football - would no longer hold much weight if we add UConn. Not sure if we should add them or not but I don't think they should be considered just a "hot mid-major" anymore.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 7, 2017 23:23:26 GMT -5
You can always point to a hot mid-major team (like VCU), but keep in mind that when the Big East started out people wanted to add St. Louis. Take a look at how that would have turned out - I am glad they didn't make any bone-headed moves like that. I don't think this is a good comparison. SLU was good for exactly three seasons. That is not enough time and they never should have been considered. I agree on that. But VCU has been good for a pretty long time now. Their average KenPom ranking over the last 16 seasons (which are all available seasons on KenPom) is 64. And of course if you weigh recent seasons more heavily that number would look better (avg = 43 over last 10 seasons). In the NBE, the average KenPom ranking of the ten teams has been 63. So VCU would fit right in. They also bring another east-coast team with a big fan base that would travel to MSG. And the other arguments against them - public school / football - would no longer hold much weight if we add UConn. Not sure if we should add them or not but I don't think they should be considered just a "hot mid-major" anymore. I don't disagree with you in the sense that I think VCU would probably be the next best add beyond Connecticut. I just don't think they're strong enough to merit doing so, at the risk of diluting the league. Now, if you could trade DePaul for VCU, I am all in, but that won't happen.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Feb 7, 2017 23:28:29 GMT -5
I don't think this is a good comparison. SLU was good for exactly three seasons. That is not enough time and they never should have been considered. I agree on that. But VCU has been good for a pretty long time now. Their average KenPom ranking over the last 16 seasons (which are all available seasons on KenPom) is 64. And of course if you weigh recent seasons more heavily that number would look better (avg = 43 over last 10 seasons). In the NBE, the average KenPom ranking of the ten teams has been 63. So VCU would fit right in. They also bring another east-coast team with a big fan base that would travel to MSG. And the other arguments against them - public school / football - would no longer hold much weight if we add UConn. Not sure if we should add them or not but I don't think they should be considered just a "hot mid-major" anymore. I don't disagree with you in the sense that I think VCU would probably be the next best add beyond Connecticut. I just don't think they're strong enough to merit doing so, at the risk of diluting the league. Now, if you could trade DePaul for VCU, I am all in, but that won't happen. But you think we should continue to run this program into the ground so why would we listen to you? Apply some logic to what you say and maybe you'd have an audience.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 8, 2017 10:05:38 GMT -5
I don't disagree with you in the sense that I think VCU would probably be the next best add beyond Connecticut. I just don't think they're strong enough to merit doing so, at the risk of diluting the league. Now, if you could trade DePaul for VCU, I am all in, but that won't happen. But you think we should continue to run this program into the ground so why would we listen to you? Apply some logic to what you say and maybe you'd have an audience. Why do you feel a need to hijack yet another thread to push your agenda? What does your post have to do with the Connecticut joining the Big East or potential expansion? Absolutely nothing. And while you completely misstate my position (of course, I do not want to run the program into the ground), I refuse to engage you on it here, in a completely unrelated thread.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Feb 8, 2017 19:05:23 GMT -5
In favor of UConn, if we can strap on a massive exit penalty.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Feb 8, 2017 19:20:11 GMT -5
In favor of UConn, if we can strap on a massive exit penalty. That's key, just in case UConn feel as if they want to jump to another conference due to football money. Hike up the exit fee to over 30 mil +
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 8, 2017 23:37:55 GMT -5
I am not sure what the Big East's penalties are for leaving, but I think it's safe to say that unless the penalties are such that it would make it difficult, teams would jump at the opportunity to join a major conference as an associate member. I mean, as much as people hate on the ACC, if they offered Villanova and Georgetown a chance to join for basketball only, and it was feasible (not saying it is), it would be extremely hard to say no. But, this is never going to happen. I think the Big East will remain stable as long as it doesn't do anything stupid like expanding senselessly. Never say never. If ESPN wanted to stir up some trouble with the next Fox (or MSG) contract by luring a St. John's or a Villanova to another league for TV reasons, it's at least a scenario. Who was thinking a decade ago Creighton would play in the Big East and West Virginia would play in the Big 12? You do never know, but I believe there are pretty huge exit penalties in the Big East now.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 8, 2017 23:45:46 GMT -5
You do never know, but I believe there are pretty huge exit penalties in the Big East now. One conference has no exit fee. That's right, $0.00. It's the Southeastern Conference. Two schools, Tulane and Georgia Tech, actually did just that and left the SEC in the 1960's, and have regretted it ever since. And if one of the current 14 ever chose to leave, rest assured the SEC would have a line around the block with applicants.
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