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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 15:35:00 GMT -5
Totally agree with this take. If we had beaten Arkansas State and one of Maryland/Oklahoma State, it could be argued that we can ride with Mulmore a bit more than we are right now. But he hasn't shown much offensively and if we want to have any prayer of making the NCAA Tournament, he can't be getting 20+ mpg right now. Campbell is not particularly good but is the hot hand and makes sense to keep him in there as the top minutes PG at least through the Syracuse game. Mulmore and Mosely can't shoot outside and would be nightmares playing big minutes against the Syracuse zone. The big question I have is what is going on inside Mosely's head right now. It's like ever since he went 0-6 from 3-point land in I believe the Arkansas State game, he's lost all aggressiveness and is a shadow of what he looked like vs. SC-Upstate and Maryland. In a perfect world, he'd be the guy that takes the reins at the PG position, but seems like the scouting report has caught up to him and he's lost a ton of confidence. Mulmore had our offense running smoothly yesterday but he was put back on the bench for Tre. I wouldn't say he's out of control like Peak was in his freshman year. Peak is STILL out of control when he attacks the basket sometimes, but I like him attacking. Peak tries to go between two defenders. As a rule guards are not suppose to do this. Tre messed the Maryland game up at the end with .08 seconds to go in the game. That was a HUGE mistake. True point guards just don't make mistakes like this at the end of games. Mosely is a freshman playing the toughest position on the court mentally and physically. But mostly mentally. Veteran guards know he's a freshman and go right at him. I don't know why the coaches aren't seeing this. It's like they're setting him up for failure!!! You attack the Cuse zone not shoot a rack of three's. If you do game over. Like Mulmore's trip/hop/travel seconds before that? Glide - you seem to like Mulmore a bit more than the majority here. Nothing wrong with that. But there's no on-the-court evidence just yet that he's our answer at the 1. If he gets to that point, I'm sure we'll all remember that he was your guy from the get-go... -- How decision making and clock management continue to haunt -- Mulmore on the ball full time (true point guard) -- John Mulmore is ready to lead! Johson deserves more PT -- This thread
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Dec 5, 2016 16:06:21 GMT -5
Go with whoever has the hot hand. Loved that Jt3 started the 2nd half with Govan...he simply outplayed Hayes. Same holds true with Campbell over Mosley and Mulmore yesterday.
Outside of Pryor and Peak...I don't think who starts means all that much. Who finishes however may be a different story each and every game.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 5, 2016 20:12:08 GMT -5
To be honest I am not impressed with any of the three(Campbell, Mulmore or Moseley) as lead guard for this team, but you have to start one of them, so I say III has given both Campbell and Moseley all the starts so far, so let's try Mulmore for the next game and see if he can handle it. He has two years of experience, albeit JUCO experience. As others have mentioned he does go to the hoop, but just is not finishing right now. Campbell's ability to hit an occasional 3 is good but if he misses, nine out of ten times the Hoyas do not get the offensive rebound and the ball is going the other way. If Mulmore misses the drive to the basket, he at least has pulled two defenders out of position, which could lead to a put back by one of the bigs. Has anyone noticed how many moving picks are called on the Hoyas? I contend that it is a direct result of the lead guard on offense not knowing how or unable to setup a proper pick by the bigs. The scenerio goes like this(1) Hoya big comes to top of free throw lane to set a pick,(2) Hoya pg starts to dribble toward big man but instead of driving his defender into the pick, the defender forces him to flare out toward the half court line, and the big man has to move toward the defender to make contact resulting in moving pick call. None of the three has shown a strong enough handle to force the defender into the pick set by the bigs, instead they appear to be scared that the defender will steal the ball from them so they flare out toward the half court. Right now I would not start Hayes or Govan. I would start Agau at center, Derrickson at big forward, Pryor at small forward and Pesk as 2 guard.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Dec 5, 2016 20:51:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure mulmore is good enough to play at this level, much less be a starter. Tre has been far and away the best point guard of the bunch up to this point. Other way around. lol I feel you bro
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 5, 2016 22:22:18 GMT -5
Among Mosely, Campbell, and Mulmore, nobody is great. But really, at this point all Mulmore brings is speed and drawing fouls. He's been a horrible shooter (6-18 from two, 2-9 from three), has a lower assist rate than Mosely and Campbell, and turns it over a fair amount (but lower than Mosely and Campbell).
If Campbell can shoot threes at a rate of 40% plus he needs to play. We need people who can put the ball in the basket.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 5, 2016 23:10:03 GMT -5
Among Mosely, Campbell, and Mulmore, nobody is great. But really, at this point all Mulmore brings is speed and drawing fouls. He's been a horrible shooter (6-18 from two, 2-9 from three), has a lower assist rate than Mosely and Campbell, and turns it over a fair amount (but lower than Mosely and Campbell). If Campbell can shoot threes at a rate of 40% plus he needs to play. We need people who can put the ball in the basket. Mulmore shows the limits of Kenner performance as an evaluative tool, especially for guards. He was really good this summer - regularly getting into the lane and scoring/getting fouled/finding open teammates. He even hit that goofy slow motion moon ball push shot consistently - from the foul line, from the mid range, and from 3. His defense was fine - nothing special, but he played hard, stayed low, and generally kept his man out of the lane most of the time. He turned the ball over more than you would like, but not nearly enough to compromise the positive aspects of his game. and more than anything - he played with fire and confidence. He is doing pretty much none of these things in real competition, at least not more than in flashes. The thing that is most disappointing is that he looks tentative and even timid in real games, so different from the aggressiveness with which he played this summer. Maybe with experience against tougher competition, and against coaches who know how to coach their players to stop a quick but otherwise unexceptional player, he'll make adjustments and gain some confidence. But right now, it is hard to justify giving him a whole lot of playing time as long as Campbell is hitting a reasonable percentage of his jumpers, and not getting completely torched on D.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 6, 2016 8:03:22 GMT -5
Go with whoever has the hot hand. Loved that Jt3 started the 2nd half with Govan...he simply outplayed Hayes. Same holds true with Campbell over Mosley and Mulmore yesterday. Outside of Pryor and Peak...I don't think who starts means all that much. Who finishes however may be a different story each and every game. How many more games would we have won last year if Campbell just makes one or two more wide open shots? I think at least 3-5, and perhaps more. His improved play is a really good sign.
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Post by jld54 on Dec 6, 2016 9:12:41 GMT -5
This is basically the same team as last year with a swap of DSR for Pryor.
LJ's improvement is negated by Ike's regression so far; Govan better on O but otherwise inconsistent; Mulmore and Mosely add a few minutes of depth in the backcourt but little else thus far; and Agau while helpful seems limited by injury still. Derrickson and Johnson have been limited by injury and hopefully can improve.
Glass half full analysis: Hopefully it is still early and if the injured players heal and the entire team gets more comfortable with each other we can have a respectable season.
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Post by lancasterhoyafan on Dec 6, 2016 9:21:33 GMT -5
Among Mosely, Campbell, and Mulmore, nobody is great. But really, at this point all Mulmore brings is speed and drawing fouls. He's been a horrible shooter (6-18 from two, 2-9 from three), has a lower assist rate than Mosely and Campbell, and turns it over a fair amount (but lower than Mosely and Campbell). If Campbell can shoot threes at a rate of 40% plus he needs to play. We need people who can put the ball in the basket. This^^^
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 6, 2016 9:45:28 GMT -5
At this point I am not certain how it can be a question. Even if you ignore the notable improvement in the last game, statistically it has to be Campbell. For the season Campbell is shooting 43% from 2pt and 46% from 3pt range. Mulmore is shooting 29% and 22%. Mosley is shooting 32% and 8% (not a typo!). Mosley stands out with 18 rebounds, 26 assists and 8 steals, but that is not far ahead of Campbell who has 12 rebounds, 14 assists and 8 steals in less playing time. Mulmore has only 3 rebounds, 9 assists and 4 steals with the least amount of playing time. Finally, Mosley has 16 turnovers to 13 turnovers by Campbell and 10 by Mulmore.
I would like to see them all play but the difference in their defense does not outweigh the need to have another scoring option from the perimeter when other teams pack it in like Elon did and others will.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 6, 2016 11:30:33 GMT -5
Among Mosely, Campbell, and Mulmore, nobody is great. But really, at this point all Mulmore brings is speed and drawing fouls. He's been a horrible shooter (6-18 from two, 2-9 from three), has a lower assist rate than Mosely and Campbell, and turns it over a fair amount (but lower than Mosely and Campbell). If Campbell can shoot threes at a rate of 40% plus he needs to play. We need people who can put the ball in the basket. Mulmore shows the limits of Kenner performance as an evaluative tool, especially for guards. He was really good this summer - regularly getting into the lane and scoring/getting fouled/finding open teammates. He even hit that goofy slow motion moon ball push shot consistently - from the foul line, from the mid range, and from 3. His defense was fine - nothing special, but he played hard, stayed low, and generally kept his man out of the lane most of the time. He turned the ball over more than you would like, but not nearly enough to compromise the positive aspects of his game. and more than anything - he played with fire and confidence. He is doing pretty much none of these things in real competition, at least not more than in flashes. The thing that is most disappointing is that he looks tentative and even timid in real games, so different from the aggressiveness with which he played this summer. Maybe with experience against tougher competition, and against coaches who know how to coach their players to stop a quick but otherwise unexceptional player, he'll make adjustments and gain some confidence. But right now, it is hard to justify giving him a whole lot of playing time as long as Campbell is hitting a reasonable percentage of his jumpers, and not getting completely torched on D. No, it shows the limits of your Kenner evaluation.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 6, 2016 11:31:09 GMT -5
Go with whoever has the hot hand. Loved that Jt3 started the 2nd half with Govan...he simply outplayed Hayes. Same holds true with Campbell over Mosley and Mulmore yesterday. Outside of Pryor and Peak...I don't think who starts means all that much. Who finishes however may be a different story each and every game. How many more games would we have won last year if Campbell just makes one or two more wide open shots? I think at least 3-5, and perhaps more. His improved play is a really good sign. Lol
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 6, 2016 11:35:43 GMT -5
How many more games would we have won last year if Campbell just makes one or two more wide open shots? I think at least 3-5, and perhaps more. His improved play is a really good sign. Lol Well, we lost 9 games by five or fewer points, so, the answer there is probably a lot, but I can't say I've gone back and looked to see how many shots Tre missed (let alone if they were open shots)
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 6, 2016 11:40:35 GMT -5
Well, we lost 9 games by five or fewer points, so, the answer there is probably a lot, but I can't say I've gone back and looked to see how many shots Tre missed (let alone if they were open shots) The same could be said for any player on our roster...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 11:48:51 GMT -5
I wonder how Mulmore looks in Practice because 3 seems pretty committed to him being the first guard off the bench. He hasn't been great but the game is probably playing a bit fast for him right now... I think it's because he wants the team to press early and often.. He knows Tre is weak defensively so he goes to Mulmore.. I think the press should be put on the shelf for awhile.. It's all speculation either way but think he has a little more to give it just hasn't showed up yet. He doesn't look comfortable or sure of himself out there but that's not exactly surprising considering the huge jump in competition.. He's thinking to much and relying on instinct to little. Just play aggressive, you're going to make mistakes anyways so fire your best shot.. I still like Jagan starting he brings a nice energy to begin the game and Tre gets a minute to see the game and settle in. Nobody is going to play 40 minutes so starters don't matter imo unless we start getting out to bad starts consistently. Tre has showed better than the other 2 and is deserving of more minutes right now though I disagree on the press 100%. You don't have to press 40 minutes but I enjoy watching the guys get after it. They have to be more consistent boning up once they get the ball over halfcourt..
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on Dec 6, 2016 12:10:26 GMT -5
Mulmore shows the limits of Kenner performance as an evaluative tool, especially for guards. He was really good this summer - regularly getting into the lane and scoring/getting fouled/finding open teammates. He even hit that goofy slow motion moon ball push shot consistently - from the foul line, from the mid range, and from 3. His defense was fine - nothing special, but he played hard, stayed low, and generally kept his man out of the lane most of the time. He turned the ball over more than you would like, but not nearly enough to compromise the positive aspects of his game. and more than anything - he played with fire and confidence. He is doing pretty much none of these things in real competition, at least not more than in flashes. The thing that is most disappointing is that he looks tentative and even timid in real games, so different from the aggressiveness with which he played this summer. Maybe with experience against tougher competition, and against coaches who know how to coach their players to stop a quick but otherwise unexceptional player, he'll make adjustments and gain some confidence. But right now, it is hard to justify giving him a whole lot of playing time as long as Campbell is hitting a reasonable percentage of his jumpers, and not getting completely torched on D. No, it shows the limits of your Kenner evaluation. I only saw one of Mulmore's Kenner games but I saw the same positive things vv83 did. He seemed to have a court vision and passing ability in that game that I havent seen since. I think another poster hit the nail on the head that he should be seen as a freshman--still developing. We saw flashes of LJ's ability his first game as a Frosh but he struggled a bit until he better developed a euro step and his shot. I think we will see the same from Mulmore hopefully, although the mechanics on that jumper are ugly. Tre (I cant believe im saying this) has earned the starting spot. The improved shooting helps but I think its more from what he isnt doing. He is forcing the issue much less.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 12:29:56 GMT -5
Starting is less important than figuring out an identity.... Imo The reality is the person on the team most capable of getting others good shots is Peak. He's averaging 3.5 assist from the wing spot. He's not a PG but the kid has an innate ability to figure things out. The offense needs to go through him and we need to play of him. Pryor's the best scorer so his minutes are guaranteed who plays beyond that should be the players complementing those 2.
Once the ball gets over half court the ball needs be in his hands as much as possible. He has more to give imo and we need to ride that as much as possible. Keep pushing, he can handle it and it will be great for his development
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 6, 2016 12:42:04 GMT -5
No, it shows the limits of your Kenner evaluation. I only saw one of Mulmore's Kenner games but I saw the same positive things vv83 did. He seemed to have a court vision and passing ability in that game that I havent seen since. I think another poster hit the nail on the head that he should be seen as a freshman--still developing. We saw flashes of LJ's ability his first game as a Frosh but he struggled a bit until he better developed a euro step and his shot. I think we will see the same from Mulmore hopefully, although the mechanics on that jumper are ugly. Tre (I cant believe im saying this) has earned the starting spot. The improved shooting helps but I think its more from what he isnt doing. He is forcing the issue much less. Perhaps Mulmore should be seen as a freshman, but the reality is, he is a junior and was brought in to be an immediate impact player. He hasn't been, and seems overwhelmed by the pace and physicality of play at this level. If he was a freshman, sure we could say he shows promise, but as an upperclassman, its hard to even predict if he will be improved enough next year to be a solid backup to Waters. That seems to be the problem with this team overall, however. Each player shows promise, but has a very incomplete game. We wait each year for those players to add the extra element to their games, but more often than not, it seems those players remain rooted in place. LJ has improved, and is our best all around player. But Tre, Ike, Govan, have not really figured out how to balance out their flaws. So we throw out there different line-ups with different strengths and weaknesses, but can never seem to find a balance that creates a complete unit. I think the starting line-up is therefore pretty irrelevant, as opposing teams are going to expose weaknesses whoever is thrown out there, and JTIII will have to find ways to constantly mix and match in order to at least keep opponents off guard (wishful thinking...but you get the point).
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Dec 6, 2016 12:50:07 GMT -5
This is basically the same team as last year with a swap of DSR for Pryor. LJ's improvement is negated by Ike's regression so far; Govan better on O but otherwise inconsistent; Mulmore and Mosely add a few minutes of depth in the backcourt but little else thus far; and Agau while helpful seems limited by injury still. Derrickson and Johnson have been limited by injury and hopefully can improve. Glass half full analysis: Hopefully it is still early and if the injured players heal and the entire team gets more comfortable with each other we can have a respectable season. I doubt your opinion will be popular here...but I have a bad feeling you are right about most of this stuff. We definitely need a PG to become at least average by BE standards and Ike or Marcus to reach their potential. IF not, I do not see an NCAA bid.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 6, 2016 14:03:19 GMT -5
I think it's because he wants the team to press early and often.. He knows Tre is weak defensively so he goes to Mulmore.. I think the press should be put on the shelf for awhile.. It's all speculation either way but think he has a little more to give it just hasn't showed up yet. He doesn't look comfortable or sure of himself out there but that's not exactly surprising considering the huge jump in competition.. He's thinking to much and relying on instinct to little. Just play aggressive, you're going to make mistakes anyways so fire your best shot.. I still like Jagan starting he brings a nice energy to begin the game and Tre gets a minute to see the game and settle in. Nobody is going to play 40 minutes so starters don't matter imo unless we start getting out to bad starts consistently. Tre has showed better than the other 2 and is deserving of more minutes right now though I disagree on the press 100%. You don't have to press 40 minutes but I enjoy watching the guys get after it. They have to be more consistent boning up once they get the ball over halfcourt.. I'm not so sure honestly.. Agree that it's more about PT than who starts.. The press only works against lesser opponents, Elon torched it the other day.. They're not equipped to run it properly imo.. Also have to add in how much it may wear down Peak & Pryor during the BE season, Stevie Wonder can see that they're gonna avg 37+ per game this conference season..
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