guru
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Post by guru on Oct 16, 2016 19:34:21 GMT -5
However, it gets a bit old listening to this same old from the same old. little man, you don't understand the irony in this statement, do you?
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 16, 2016 19:36:54 GMT -5
However, it gets a bit old listening to this same old from the same old. little man, you don't understand the irony in this statement, do you? No big guy but I'm sure a genius like you does.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 16, 2016 20:06:19 GMT -5
Look, can we at least wait for the season to begin before we ratchet up the inane, pointless bickering? Maybe the team will be worse than even Eagle expects; we will al kill each other; and there will be nothing to discuss. It could not be worse than this nonsense.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 16, 2016 20:15:47 GMT -5
Look, can we at least wait for the season to begin before we ratchet up the inane, pointless bickering? Maybe the team will be worse than even Eagle expects; we will al kill each other; and there will be nothing to discuss. It could not be worse than this nonsense. I like your approach and makes sense. Not sure you'll get buy-in from the masses here but we'll see how they react.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 16, 2016 20:32:22 GMT -5
Yes, Georgetown is relevant, but I think it's a victim of bad timing--at the front of the schedule, and at the back. [ ] Which is why the first two weeks of the season may almost be as important as the last two. You are right but this is the reality of 2016, and has nothing to do with the way the coach schedules. The trend in college basketball is for the early season tournaments to be in mid-late November, and that's usually where you get a bunch of good games. The downside, which you point out, is that it means the early part of the season gains a ton of prominence because those are our "best" games. It's a lot of potential upside but also a lot of downside. Last year was a great example of where it did not work. Unfortunately, that's the reality of the new conference. The old Big East was strong enough that the OOC didn't have nearly as much importance. But, the answer now isn't to not schedule the good OOC games; if we did that, our odds of getting NCAA seeding would be lower, even if we did well. And, with higher seeds come higher odds of advancing, even if our own example hasn't been indicative of that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 16, 2016 20:38:26 GMT -5
Let's be clear, many and most would disagree. When I pointed out problems as early as two seasons ago as you state things have gotten worse. I'll wait to see what this season has in store but my guess is the players we bring in aren't what this board is advertising or we'll have to blame the staff for not having them ready. Same as every other year. I would just note that in 2014-2015 (two seasons ago), we were 22-11, basically tied for second in the Big East, and were a 4 seed that advanced and lost to a 5-seeded Utah team that nearly everyone except the NCAA committee thought was better than us. Of course, I would have liked to done better in the NCAA tournament, so you won't find argument from me that we need to do better in March. But, I think it's often lost on people that, yes, last year was horrible, but the year before wasn't. I am not saying we're going to have a great season. I am probably more pessimistic than I've been in years. But, I think that there's a chance we get it done this year with the players we have. I realize the first time we lose people will be calling for JT3's head (like last year), but all that won't accomplish anything except leading to the same old arguments here.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 16, 2016 20:48:35 GMT -5
Let's be clear, many and most would disagree. When I pointed out problems as early as two seasons ago as you state things have gotten worse. I'll wait to see what this season has in store but my guess is the players we bring in aren't what this board is advertising or we'll have to blame the staff for not having them ready. Same as every other year. I would just note that in 2014-2015 (two seasons ago), we were 22-11, basically tied for second in the Big East, and were a 4 seed that advanced and lost to a 5-seeded Utah team that nearly everyone except the NCAA committee thought was better than us. Of course, I would have liked to done better in the NCAA tournament, so you won't find argument from me that we need to do better in March. But, I think it's often lost on people that, yes, last year was horrible, but the year before wasn't. I am not saying we're going to have a great season. I am probably more pessimistic than I've been in years. But, I think that there's a chance we get it done this year with the players we have. I realize the first time we lose people will be calling for JT3's head (like last year), but all that won't accomplish anything except leading to the same old arguments here. I hear you completely. However, we can't deny what we've done in the past several years and nothing has changed. Last year seemed like relief in that we didn't have a let down in the post season because we didn't qualify. The year before that we sweated out a win against Eastern Washington and then lost to a five seed that we said should have been higher seeded. That's an excuse but still our best post season performance since nine years earlier. This season needs to be DRAMATICALLY different or we'll continue with this same discussion? I'm sure many here would be fine with that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 16, 2016 20:53:59 GMT -5
I would just note that in 2014-2015 (two seasons ago), we were 22-11, basically tied for second in the Big East, and were a 4 seed that advanced and lost to a 5-seeded Utah team that nearly everyone except the NCAA committee thought was better than us. Of course, I would have liked to done better in the NCAA tournament, so you won't find argument from me that we need to do better in March. But, I think it's often lost on people that, yes, last year was horrible, but the year before wasn't. I am not saying we're going to have a great season. I am probably more pessimistic than I've been in years. But, I think that there's a chance we get it done this year with the players we have. I realize the first time we lose people will be calling for JT3's head (like last year), but all that won't accomplish anything except leading to the same old arguments here. I hear you completely. However, we can't deny what we've done in the past several years and nothing has changed. Last year seemed like relief in that we didn't have a let down in the post season because we didn't qualify. The year before that we sweated out a win against Eastern Washington and then lost to a five seed that we said should have been higher seeded. That's an excuse but still our best post season performance since nine years earlier. This season needs to be DRAMATICALLY different or we'll continue with this same discussion? I'm sure many here would be fine with that. I actually do think that this season needs to be different, or the tenor of the discussion will be much worse than it was last year. But, that's why we need to wait and see what happens. Really, it's hard to judge until the end of the season. For example, let's say we repeat 2015 - 4 seed and lose to a pretty good team in the 2nd round. Would that be a failure? I mean, I think "it depends" is the right answer since we have no clue what's going to happen. I mean, take the two following scenarios: 22-11, 4 seed, lose in second round. 19-14, 10 seed, make Sweet 16. Some people would say the first is better; others the second. I am not looking to start a debate - I truly think there are good arguments on both sides. Some would say March is most important; others may not. But it's a good example of how different people can look at different situations. I think we all agree last season was unacceptable and this season needs to improve on that.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 16, 2016 21:00:59 GMT -5
I hear you completely. However, we can't deny what we've done in the past several years and nothing has changed. Last year seemed like relief in that we didn't have a let down in the post season because we didn't qualify. The year before that we sweated out a win against Eastern Washington and then lost to a five seed that we said should have been higher seeded. That's an excuse but still our best post season performance since nine years earlier. This season needs to be DRAMATICALLY different or we'll continue with this same discussion? I'm sure many here would be fine with that. I actually do think that this season needs to be different, or the tenor of the discussion will be much worse than it was last year. But, that's why we need to wait and see what happens. Really, it's hard to judge until the end of the season. For example, let's say we repeat 2015 - 4 seed and lose to a pretty good team in the 2nd round. Would that be a failure? I mean, I think "it depends" is the right answer since we have no clue what's going to happen. I mean, take the two following scenarios: 22-11, 4 seed, lose in second round. 19-14, 10 seed, make Sweet 16. Some people would say the first is better; others the second. I am not looking to start a debate - I truly think there are good arguments on both sides. Some would say March is most important; others may not. But it's a good example of how different people can look at different situations. I think we all agree last season was unacceptable and this season needs to improve on that. I hear you. I believe that in our current conference, which has little visibility, March is what matters. What Nova did is what we need to do so we can't be ignored. Too many on this board can find our games and think others are watching. No one is watching though other than us, everyone else who isn't looking gets their sports from ESPN. It's not the days of when we were always on Monday night each week at 7 and advertised by the world wide leader. FS1 has no viewership.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 16, 2016 21:07:19 GMT -5
On FS1, I am divided. In favor of FS1, I am not sure we'd have a true "Big East" conference that had so many televised games without it. They were willing to give the new Big East a pretty nice TV deal when ESPN would never have done that, and we would have been 5th class citizens as far as priority on ESPN. Contrarily, ESPN does get a lot better viewership, so we do lose a lot out on exposure.
Some of that is remedied by our OOC ESPN games (winning the Maui tournament, or even knocking off Oregon would be a nice boost). Some of it is assisted by the games on network television - both on CBS and FOX. And, the Big East finals are now on FOX, and that worked out quite well last year. And FOX seems pretty committed to promoting FS1, and I think that's great.
But, as you said, it does carry with it some negatives - mostly the lack of exposure. I do think FS1 will improve over time (getting things like the NLCS on Fox Sports 1 certainly helps). I mean, it's not comparable, but Fox News came on the scene and succeeded about as quickly as possible, and they only began competing with CNN after about 5 years. FS1 isn't even that old yet, and I don't think they're going to increase viewership as fast as the news counterpart. So, I think it's a long-term endeavor.
The much bigger problem long-term would be if Fox Sports didn't offer the Big East a similar deal when it expired. So far, that seems unlikely since sports programming is still commanding a nice price, but the cracks are beginning to show in that, even for ESPN. It's hard to say what will happen. Of course, consistently winning is the best antidote to lack of exposure.
I would add that I think the Big East conference itself - in non-football form - has worked out better than I even imagined. If you told me that any Big East team would win the championship within a few years of its creation, I would have thought that was crazy. The conference has put out a very solid basketball product overall, and that's a strength. If we do our part with some success, that'll be icing on the cake.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 16, 2016 21:08:18 GMT -5
The Big East needs a successful Georgetown. We need to be much, much better this year - including in March. We absolutely agree on those points.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 16, 2016 21:12:25 GMT -5
On FS1, I am divided. In favor of FS1, I am not sure we'd have a true "Big East" conference that had so many televised games without it. They were willing to give the new Big East a pretty nice TV deal when ESPN would never have done that, and we would have been 5th class citizens as far as priority on ESPN. Contrarily, ESPN does get a lot better viewership, so we do lose a lot out on exposure. Some of that is remedied by our OOC ESPN games (winning the Maui tournament, or even knocking off Oregon would be a nice boost). Some of it is assisted by the games on network television - both on CBS and FOX. And, the Big East finals are now on FOX, and that worked out quite well last year. And FOX seems pretty committed to promoting FS1, and I think that's great. But, as you said, it does carry with it some negatives - mostly the lack of exposure. I do think FS1 will improve over time (getting things like the NLCS on Fox Sports 1 certainly helps). I mean, it's not comparable, but Fox News came on the scene and succeeded about as quickly as possible, and they only began competing with CNN after about 5 years. FS1 isn't even that old yet, and I don't think they're going to increase viewership as fast as the news counterpart. So, I think it's a long-term. The much bigger problem long-term would be if Fox Sports didn't offer the Big East a similar deal when it expired. So far, that seems unlikely since sports programming is still commanding a nice price, but the cracks are beginning to show in that, even for ESPN. It's hard to say what will happen. Of course, consistently winning is the best antidote to lack of exposure. i agree completely. We as program have failed the new BE, Fox Sports coverage and all of us that follow this team. That rests in one place and ignoring that doesn't help anyone. I'm not pointing that to you but to others here who don't want to see what is happening or not happening.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 17, 2016 8:25:40 GMT -5
[ We as program have failed the new BE, Fox Sports coverage and all of us that follow this team. That rests in one place and ignoring that doesn't help anyone. I'm not pointing that to you but to others here who don't want to see what is happening or not happening. Is anyone else hoping for a great season just so that we can force feed the troll all the redundant and ridiculous words he continues to spew? I have rooted for the Hoyas from HS on, for 1000 different reasons, but I am now at the point where I just want wins so that this ignoramus must stop. And so that the kids have more fun of course, but mostly to see eagle eat crow. Eagle, we all know how you feel. No point being a child and continuing to tell us. Please, learn a modicum of etiquette even if you can't learn respect. Question: How long do you think you would last alone in a room with Pops?
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Oct 17, 2016 8:43:09 GMT -5
Look, can we at least wait for the season to begin before we ratchet up the inane, pointless bickering? Maybe the team will be worse than even Eagle expects; we will al kill each other; and there will be nothing to discuss. It could not be worse than this nonsense. I like your approach and makes sense. Not sure you'll get buy-in from the masses here but we'll see how they react. Yet you're the one who said, "I'll wait to see what this season has in store but my guess is the players we bring in aren't what this board is advertising[.]"
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 17, 2016 11:18:59 GMT -5
26 days. Then we can start criticizing the coach and the players instead of each other!
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 17, 2016 17:51:11 GMT -5
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 17, 2016 19:20:46 GMT -5
Eagles eat crows?
I'd like to get back to the discussion of the front-loading of the schedule. I don't think that was last year's problem. As I recall, we lost narrowly to Duke and Maryland, and beat Wisconsin and Syracuse. I would have preferred, of course, that we beat Maryland - beating both Maryland and Syracuse would have made the remainder of last season's debacle easier to stomach. So last year's problem wasn't the front-loading, it was all of the games that we lost that caused us to say WTF? And there were more than a couple.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 17, 2016 22:36:37 GMT -5
[ We as program have failed the new BE, Fox Sports coverage and all of us that follow this team. That rests in one place and ignoring that doesn't help anyone. I'm not pointing that to you but to others here who don't want to see what is happening or not happening. Is anyone else hoping for a great season just so that we can force feed the troll all the redundant and ridiculous words he continues to spew? I have rooted for the Hoyas from HS on, for 1000 different reasons, but I am now at the point where I just want wins so that this ignoramus must stop. And so that the kids have more fun of course, but mostly to see eagle eat crow. Eagle, we all know how you feel. No point being a child and continuing to tell us. Please, learn a modicum of etiquette even if you can't learn respect. Question: How long do you think you would last alone in a room with Pops? Your insults are telling as it’s clear you can’t comprehend much discussion about this program. The fact that you will care more about proving me wrong than rooting for the program (as I do also) means what I’m saying makes perfect sense but you don’t want to hear it or think about it. For all of our sakes, I hope you are right and I do eat crow which I’ll do happily just tired of waiting for that day with this regime. As for Pops, I think he’d have an honest discussion with me on the state of the program. I think him bringing physical harm is some sort of your small minded imagination but have at it.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Oct 17, 2016 22:37:52 GMT -5
I like your approach and makes sense. Not sure you'll get buy-in from the masses here but we'll see how they react. Yet you're the one who said, "I'll wait to see what this season has in store but my guess is the players we bring in aren't what this board is advertising[.]" Take something out of context and continue with no point? You are a treasure to the board.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Oct 17, 2016 22:44:23 GMT -5
Is anyone else hoping for a great season just so that we can force feed the troll all the redundant and ridiculous words he continues to spew? I have rooted for the Hoyas from HS on, for 1000 different reasons, but I am now at the point where I just want wins so that this ignoramus must stop. And so that the kids have more fun of course, but mostly to see eagle eat crow. Eagle, we all know how you feel. No point being a child and continuing to tell us. Please, learn a modicum of etiquette even if you can't learn respect. Question: How long do you think you would last alone in a room with Pops? Your insults are telling as it’s clear you can’t comprehend much discussion about this program. The fact that you will care more about proving me wrong than rooting for the program (as I do also) means what I’m saying makes perfect sense but you don’t want to hear it or think about it. For all of our sakes, I hope you are right and I do eat crow which I’ll do happily just tired of waiting for that day with this regime. As for Pops, I think he’d have an honest discussion with me on the state of the program. I think him bringing physical harm is some sort of your small minded imagination but have at it. Eagle, you're the one that mentioned physical harm, not seaweed. I could very easily see Pops showing you the door in a hurry if for no other reason than you don't really have discussions about the program. You have your view and you dismiss, out of hand, anyone that has a differing one. I'm fairly certain Big John would have a different view of his son than you do. Regardless, I think we all want the same results in terms of the record and level of success. We just get very much sidetracked in taking shots at one another because we probably care too much about the program and because there's nothing better to do until the games actually start being played.
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