Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Elvado on Nov 21, 2017 19:11:46 GMT -5
DTM
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 21, 2017 20:23:18 GMT -5
hoyasaxa2003 is to KenPom as Trump is to Twitter Thanks again for that insightful post, as always. I’m not entirely sure what it has to do with Waters, but I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 21, 2017 23:39:19 GMT -5
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 22, 2017 10:11:38 GMT -5
Back to Tremont. He’s had 2 games where he has looked VERY good....and two games where he has been shut down and turnover prone.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Nov 22, 2017 10:21:05 GMT -5
Back to Tremont. He’s had 2 games where he has looked VERY good....and two games where he has been shut down and turnover prone. TFW you can't read a statline : www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4278080/tremont-watersWaters had 5 TO in his 21 point game against Michigan, 5 TO combined in the other three games. Shooting great from three. 21-10 assists-to-turnovers, 2.5 turnover a game. People trying to say this kid hasn't been really really good have an agenda.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Nov 22, 2017 10:33:41 GMT -5
Back to Tremont. He’s had 2 games where he has looked VERY good....and two games where he has been shut down and turnover prone. TFW you can't read a statline : www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4278080/tremont-watersWaters had 5 TO in his 21 point game against Michigan, 5 TO combined in the other three games. Shooting great from three. 21-10 assists-to-turnovers, 2.5 turnover a game. People trying to say this kid hasn't been really really good have an agenda. I would love to have Waters and agree that some of the criticism of him is sour grapes. But let's be honest. You have an agenda as well.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 22, 2017 10:40:55 GMT -5
Back to Tremont. He’s had 2 games where he has looked VERY good....and two games where he has been shut down and turnover prone. TFW you can't read a statline : www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4278080/tremont-watersWaters had 5 TO in his 21 point game against Michigan, 5 TO combined in the other three games. Shooting great from three. 21-10 assists-to-turnovers, 2.5 turnover a game. People trying to say this kid hasn't been really really good have an agenda. He has been good, but if you saw him last night against TJ gibbs and ND he looked pedestrian. Gibbs absolutely shut him down. When Gibbs was on him he couldn't get into the lane at all. He was completely neutralized. Waters ended up with only 8 points on 2/7 shooting, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers. LSU took the ball out of his hands for a couple stretches because he was completely ineffective. all 3 of his turnovers were in the first half and he essentially got benched for a stretch as a result. Against his toughest test to date he fell flat and got absolutely punked by Gibbs. Again this isn't to say he hasn't been good, won't be good, or that I wouldn't love to have him on our team, but woof last night.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Nov 22, 2017 10:41:34 GMT -5
Let's really be honest, this doesn't need to be in the recruiting thread. He's not a hoya, he's not going to be a hoya. I wish him well, I regret him not being a hoya, I want to read about our players and prospects here, not our near-misses.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Nov 22, 2017 10:55:05 GMT -5
Let's really be honest, this doesn't need to be in the recruiting thread. He's not a hoya, he's not going to be a hoya. I wish him well, I regret him not being a hoya, I want to read about our players and prospects here, not our near-misses. Then read the other threads. We've discussed for years how bad some of our misses end up being in their threads. We're probably going to discuss for years how good this kid is.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 22, 2017 11:01:14 GMT -5
I personally am okay missing on Tremont because I don’t think we get to where we are today with a new coach and a new direction otherwise. The one that hurt and still hurts was Josh Hart. He was ours to lose and we let him go. That move alone impacted the trajectory of our program more than anything over the last 5 years. Tremont moves the needle...but we did get something out of his decommittment with a coaching change.
I for one will be tracking his performance all year....just because.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,459
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Post by TC on Nov 22, 2017 11:03:30 GMT -5
"I am okay with us being terrible for multiple years and losing the best recruit the program had in years when we probably could have made the tournament this year and next because it got us a coaching change" is a pretty common HoyaTalk take, but it's a really aggressively dumb one.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Nov 22, 2017 11:16:56 GMT -5
Let's really be honest, this doesn't need to be in the recruiting thread. He's not a hoya, he's not going to be a hoya. I wish him well, I regret him not being a hoya, I want to read about our players and prospects here, not our near-misses. Then read the other threads. We've discussed for years how bad some of our misses end up being in their threads. We're probably going to discuss for years how good this kid is. IMO, the right way to do that discussion is make a new thread, put it in the right place. I come here, absent-mindedly open all the threads with new posts without thinking and keep reading about Waters. It's irritating. That's my experience. take it for what it's worth. We can discuss that, but why here and not in, you know, the basketball forum? That asking too much?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 22, 2017 11:20:39 GMT -5
I personally am okay missing on Tremont because I don’t think we get to where we are today with a new coach and a new direction otherwise. The one that hurt and still hurts was Josh Hart. He was ours to lose and we let him go. That move alone impacted the trajectory of our program more than anything over the last 5 years. Tremont moves the needle...but we did get something out of his decommittment with a coaching change. I for one will be tracking his performance all year....just because. Tremont is DTM. One of the nails in JT3's GU coaching coffin has Tremont's name on it.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 22, 2017 11:29:35 GMT -5
If JT3 had taken Hart, he would still be the coach. That simple.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2017 11:32:25 GMT -5
"I am okay with us being terrible for multiple years and losing the best recruit the program had in years when we probably could have made the tournament this year and next because it got us a coaching change" is a pretty common HoyaTalk take, but it's a really aggressively dumb one. What is also a blind take is the thought that having Tremont here would "probably" make us a tourney team. Given the additional players who most likely would have left if JTIII was still our coach, Waters would not have been nearly enough, in fact we may well have been no better than last season overall.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 22, 2017 11:41:27 GMT -5
"I am okay with us being terrible for multiple years and losing the best recruit the program had in years when we probably could have made the tournament this year and next because it got us a coaching change" is a pretty common HoyaTalk take, but it's a really aggressively dumb one. What is also a blind take is the thought that having Tremont here would "probably" make us a tourney team. Given the additional players who most likely would have left if JTIII was still our coach, Waters would not have been nearly enough, in fact we may well have been no better than last season overall. What players are you referring to Frazier? I don't remember talk of Govan or Derrickson leaving, same goes for Kaleb & Jagan..
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2017 12:06:39 GMT -5
Let's really be honest, this doesn't need to be in the recruiting thread. He's not a hoya, he's not going to be a hoya. I wish him well, I regret him not being a hoya, I want to read about our players and prospects here, not our near-misses. Then read the other threads. We've discussed for years how bad some of our misses end up being in their threads. We're probably going to discuss for years how good this kid is. This miss really isn't a miss though. We had him, we wanted him. Even when III was fired, and Coach Ewing came in we still wanted him. It's not like we passed him over or slow played him. The only ones who can really be blamed are those on here with an agenda who kept lobbying for III to get fired, which may have lead Tremont to conclude that III's future was uncertain or perhaps the University for not giving III a vote of confidence. There actually wasn't much we could do once III was fired because he wanted to come here because of III.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2017 12:10:49 GMT -5
What is also a blind take is the thought that having Tremont here would "probably" make us a tourney team. Given the additional players who most likely would have left if JTIII was still our coach, Waters would not have been nearly enough, in fact we may well have been no better than last season overall. What players are you referring to Frazier? I don't remember talk of Govan or Derrickson leaving, same goes for Kaleb & Jagan.. The ones who wanted to leave already left or are no longer on the team. There were never any rumours of Govan or Derrickson leaving if III was still here. Alot of them considered leaving once III was fired (and before Ewing was hired) but that's normal. Akoy would have stayed if III was still here. He loved III and was mad at those players who were sabotaging III.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2017 12:13:02 GMT -5
What is also a blind take is the thought that having Tremont here would "probably" make us a tourney team. Given the additional players who most likely would have left if JTIII was still our coach, Waters would not have been nearly enough, in fact we may well have been no better than last season overall. What players are you referring to Frazier? I don't remember talk of Govan or Derrickson leaving, same goes for Kaleb & Jagan.. There was significant talk, including in Casual Hoya and otherwise amongst some with far better information than me.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2017 12:15:07 GMT -5
What players are you referring to Frazier? I don't remember talk of Govan or Derrickson leaving, same goes for Kaleb & Jagan.. The ones who wanted to leave already left or are no longer on the team. There were never any rumours of Govan or Derrickson leaving if III was still here. Alot of them considered leaving once III was fired (and before Ewing was hired) but that's normal. Akoy would have stayed if III was still here. He loved III and was mad at those players who were sabotaging III. I don't know whether Akoy would have stayed, but otherwise you are wrong that others were not strongly considering leaving if JTIII stayed.
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