hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 23, 2019 12:48:00 GMT -5
Is it appealing? Still waiting to see a big win on the recruiting front. Our freshman class was better than expected and we landed Wahab but I'm talking about a well known big time recruit. I look at Memphis and see the big time recruits that they got or have showed interest in the program. Not seeing the same here just yet. Unless you're willing to pay or have very strong AAU ties like Penny, its going to be tough to land top tier recruits without first proving something. That's why a fair chunk of people were saying to be patient until the 2020/2021 classes. Thats when the young guys Pat has actually had a chance to build a relationship with are really starting to make their decisions. To be fair at the beginning it was wait until the 2019 class that is when Pat will have enough time but that didn't pan out so now its 2020/2021.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 23, 2019 13:41:59 GMT -5
Unless you're willing to pay or have very strong AAU ties like Penny, its going to be tough to land top tier recruits without first proving something. That's why a fair chunk of people were saying to be patient until the 2020/2021 classes. Thats when the young guys Pat has actually had a chance to build a relationship with are really starting to make their decisions. To be fair at the beginning it was wait until the 2019 class that is when Pat will have enough time but that didn't pan out so now its 2020/2021. To be fair? To whom?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2019 13:42:38 GMT -5
No doubt, the 2019 class is subpar barring a major unexpected signing. 2020 and 2021 absolutely need to get better. Yurtseven helps take some of the sting away, but we cannot have future classes like this and expect to succeed. Yurtseven's aren't going to continually walk through the transfer door.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 23, 2019 13:57:22 GMT -5
Recruiting is so different now. While it would be great to land top 50-75 four-year players every year, there are other ways to compile a strong team. The transfer and de-commitment markets allow you to get at 4-star recruits, if you are patient.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Apr 23, 2019 14:01:44 GMT -5
Recruiting is so different now. While it would be great to land top 50-75 four-year players every year, there are other ways to compile a strong team. The transfer and de-commitment markets allow you to get at 4-star recruits, if you are patient. Absolutely and I have no problem with Pat focusing on that as it seems to be his strong suit. He hasn't really won a big traditional recruiting battle but luckily as you said that doesn't matter as much anymore.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 23, 2019 14:05:12 GMT -5
No doubt, the 2019 class is subpar barring a major unexpected signing. 2020 and 2021 absolutely need to get better. Yurtseven helps take some of the sting away, but we cannot have future classes like this and expect to succeed. Yurtseven's aren't going to continually walk through the transfer door. Disagree. Recruiting is about filling needs, and I think Ewing has been pretty successful doing just that for next year. We needed front court help to replace Govan--we got Yurt (projected to be one of the best centers in the BE next year) Qudus (just outside top-100) and two developmental centers who seem to have the hardworking DNA Ewing wants from his team. We needed some depth help at the 3/4--Ewing brought in Galen who was a top-100 recruit out of HS and was one of the top Juco kids available. Cole was always a reach--but Ewing likely felt he could afford to pursue a long shot because we are pretty solid at the 1/2 next year. Nonetheless, it looks like Ewing is still out there looking at some additional depth ballhandlers/shooters like Terrell Allen. Next year the needs will be different, and I anticipate so will the types of players he prioritizes. Freshman class rankings are nice, but in today's college game, tranfers and jucos are as much a part of recruiting as incoming freshmen.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 23, 2019 14:11:26 GMT -5
No doubt, the 2019 class is subpar barring a major unexpected signing. 2020 and 2021 absolutely need to get better. Yurtseven helps take some of the sting away, but we cannot have future classes like this and expect to succeed. Yurtseven's aren't going to continually walk through the transfer door. I had no idea you could see 4-5 years into the future? You must be able to see that far into the future to make that statement? Otherwise it's an absolutely ridiculous statement. Just because you don't see a bunch a fancy stars next to their names doesn't mean this class can't be a game changer. Coach Ewing has obviously focused on defensive length and mobility with this class. Wahab is better skilled then advertised while being able to rim protect. We don't know a lot about Ighoefe but what we do know is he has elite physical attributes, and Malcolm Wilson could be the best of the bunch long term because of his length, mobility and quick twitch athleticism. Most importantly is that none of the recruits are just there biting their time to get to the Association. This class has potential to be on campus for multiple years potentially giving the staff roster stability which in itself is a massive plus to building a championship program. We have no idea what this class will be and won't know completely until 2023-24. Exhibit A the Hoyas 2014 Class....
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 23, 2019 14:23:49 GMT -5
No doubt, the 2019 class is subpar barring a major unexpected signing. 2020 and 2021 absolutely need to get better. Yurtseven helps take some of the sting away, but we cannot have future classes like this and expect to succeed. Yurtseven's aren't going to continually walk through the transfer door. I don't understand this idea that we'll be drawing top 50 recruits in the classes of 2020 and 2021. We face the same structural problems in those classes (we don't cheat, we're not a blue blood program, Villanova/Gonzaga are better programs for the same type of school) for those classes that we face today. Ewing is going to have to get to a Sweet 16 with the level of recruits we're drawing now to improve the caliber of future recruits.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 23, 2019 14:47:10 GMT -5
Ewing is going to have to get to a Sweet 16 with the level of recruits we're drawing now to improve the caliber of future recruits. That is precisely the point. But IMHO, we are making progress and that goal is reasonably attainable as soon as this coming season.
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HoyaDr
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Post by HoyaDr on Apr 23, 2019 14:54:57 GMT -5
We need to move this conversation to a different thread. No reason to add pages to this thread. Dare I say... lock it up
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 23, 2019 14:55:00 GMT -5
Y’all really turned not getting Cole Anthony into a complaint fest about pat’s recruiting, which has been very very good considering where the program was when he inherited it. Man, hoyatalk is ridiculous
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Apr 23, 2019 14:57:12 GMT -5
No doubt, the 2019 class is subpar barring a major unexpected signing. 2020 and 2021 absolutely need to get better. Yurtseven helps take some of the sting away, but we cannot have future classes like this and expect to succeed. Yurtseven's aren't going to continually walk through the transfer door. I had no idea you could see 4-5 years into the future? You must be able to see that far into the future to make that statement? Otherwise it's an absolutely ridiculous statement. Just because you don't see a bunch a fancy stars next to their names doesn't mean this class can't be a game changer. Coach Ewing has obviously focused on defensive length and mobility with this class. Wahab is better skilled then advertised while being able to rim protect. We don't know a lot about Ighoefe but what we do know is he has elite physical attributes, and Malcolm Wilson could be the best of the bunch long term because of his length, mobility and quick twitch athleticism. Most importantly is that none of the recruits are just there biting their time to get to the Association. This class has potential to be on campus for multiple years potentially giving the staff roster stability which in itself is a massive plus to building a championship program. We have no idea what this class will be and won't know completely until 2023-24. Exhibit A the Hoyas 2014 Class.... I appreciate the optimism, but here is what you said Ewing was targeting for this class before last season. Did his focus change, or were we forced to go with Plan B. I agree with TC that we will need on-court success to increase the level of recruit we can reasonably hope to obtain. Akinjo turning into a top 5 PG nationally by Junior year is what it may take. "I do believe that Coach Ewing has targeted what he's looking for in this class..... he has focused heavily on a ball handling playmaking wing, a shooter from the wing, a Combo Forward, and a PF/Small Ball 5 or a true center."
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Post by upstatesaxa on Apr 23, 2019 15:12:59 GMT -5
I'll take four years of James over one year of Cole. Look at recent NCAA success stories. And maybe James has MD styled aspirations for "the league" but given his frame and game I cant really see a (successful) early departure.
Tried out a new barbershop..."inner city" address. The young guy cutting my hair knew all about Mac McClung and his dunking prowess. Zero about the Hoya squad, coach, season, etc.
I think its good our coach is going nose to nose with Ole Roy on the recruiting trail.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2019 16:32:56 GMT -5
Y’all really turned not getting Cole Anthony into a complaint fest about pat’s recruiting, which has been very very good considering where the program was when he inherited it. Man, hoyatalk is ridiculous My opinion has nothing to do with Cole Anthony, it only came out here because others were discussing it. I agree that Ewing's recruiting overall has been pretty good considering he drew in Pickett on short notice (a top 100 recruit), and the class of McClung, LeBlanc, and Akinjo looks great too. But, you need to continually fill the coffers, or you risk causing gaps that are later hard to fill. It would be unrealistic to expect Ewing to land 5 star guys like Anthony. This has nothing to do with that, but the current class essentially has no ranked recruits aside from Wahab. Can some of those guys be great? Yes. Will some of them be great even without rankings? Maybe. But most successful teams usually have solid 4 star talent, at least, so we need to keep it up. In that sense, yes, the 2019 class is a disappointment. I wouldn't say that about Ewing's 2017 or 2018 classes, though. I acknowledge Ewing seems pretty good at evaluating talent, so he very well might be picking up guys who will exceed the recruitment service expectations.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 23, 2019 16:41:56 GMT -5
Ewing is going to have to get to a Sweet 16 with the level of recruits we're drawing now to improve the caliber of future recruits. Disagree. It could happen at any moment. Look at Memphis with first-year coach Penny H and how he got next year’s #1-ranked recruit. This year, Memphis went to the NIT and lost in the first round. Sounds similar to GU. It’s about relationships with one-&-dones. We have to be in the mix to win a recruiting battle.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 23, 2019 16:46:08 GMT -5
I had no idea you could see 4-5 years into the future? You must be able to see that far into the future to make that statement? Otherwise it's an absolutely ridiculous statement. Just because you don't see a bunch a fancy stars next to their names doesn't mean this class can't be a game changer. Coach Ewing has obviously focused on defensive length and mobility with this class. So you can see into the future instead? If you've got a better crystal ball, please share and we can all make a lot of money knowing what the future will look like in 4-5 years. Under that logic, we might as well shut down any discussion about recruiting because none of us can see 4-5 years in the future. All we can do is look at the facts as they are and make an evaluation. Recruiting is not a science. There are top 5 star guys who flop, and there are 3 star guys who make the NBA. We have three recruits (again, excluding Yurtseven), two of whom are huge projects with little prospect of making an immediate impact. Wahab definitely has potential and may contribute this season, but from everything I know Wilson and Igohoefe both have potential but are far from being able to contribute. Put another way - 247 rates our class as the 53rd best. On Rivals we are 43. We aren't likely to reach the heights most fans want with classes like that. I am not saying this to take away from Ewing's accomplishments in getting solid talent last year and drawing in some good players as soon as he got fired. I think he did a really good job in both 2017 and 2018. But, the staff had most of the 2019 cycle to draw in better players, and they did not do so. I don't understand why so many reflexively tear apart any criticism, especially here when it's pretty obvious right now that the 2019 class simply isn't as good as many other team's classes, or even as good as our 2018 class.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 23, 2019 16:48:54 GMT -5
Ewing is going to have to get to a Sweet 16 with the level of recruits we're drawing now to improve the caliber of future recruits. Disagree. It could happen at any moment. Look at Memphis with first-year coach Penny H and how he got next year’s #1-ranked recruit. Yes, let's look at Memphis with first-year coach Penny Hardaway. Patrick Ewing isn't a former AAU coach at a slimy program where even the President of the University has committed an NCAA violation. He's the head coach at a place that generally keeps their hands clean. What happens to Hardaway once he runs out of kids he has bankrolled at the AAU level? That's not a sustainable progam model whatsoever.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 23, 2019 17:19:59 GMT -5
Y’all really turned not getting Cole Anthony into a complaint fest about pat’s recruiting, which has been very very good considering where the program was when he inherited it. Man, hoyatalk is ridiculous My opinion has nothing to do with Cole Anthony, it only came out here because others were discussing it. I agree that Ewing's recruiting overall has been pretty good considering he drew in Pickett on short notice (a top 100 recruit), and the class of McClung, LeBlanc, and Akinjo looks great too. But, you need to continually fill the coffers, or you risk causing gaps that are later hard to fill. It would be unrealistic to expect Ewing to land 5 star guys like Anthony. This has nothing to do with that, but the current class essentially has no ranked recruits aside from Wahab. Can some of those guys be great? Yes. Will some of them be great even without rankings? Maybe. But most successful teams usually have solid 4 star talent, at least, so we need to keep it up. In that sense, yes, the 2019 class is a disappointment. I wouldn't say that about Ewing's 2017 or 2018 classes, though. I acknowledge Ewing seems pretty good at evaluating talent, so he very well might be picking up guys who will exceed the recruitment service expectations. The obsession with ranking doesn’t fit our class - Tim is probably the best African coming into the US system this year, Alexander is one of the best JuCo guys, and Yurtseven may be the best guy coming off a sit one year. Your analysis only works if American HS are the only source for talent, which they aren’t. We have a Top 50 ( at worst, some say higher) ranked class is what is realistically Pat’s first fully baked class. When the on court results improve, I expect the recruiting will too, but to be dissatisfied with this class because there aren’t enough ranked US HA kids is a very narrow view of things.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 23, 2019 17:26:33 GMT -5
Disagree. It could happen at any moment. Look at Memphis with first-year coach Penny H and how he got next year’s #1-ranked recruit. Yes, let's look at Memphis with first-year coach Penny Hardaway. Patrick Ewing isn't a former AAU coach at a slimy program where even the President of the University has committed an NCAA violation. He's the head coach at a place that generally keeps their hands clean. What happens to Hardaway once he runs out of kids he has bankrolled at the AAU level? That's not a sustainable program model whatsoever. Hardaway is doing well because he's locking down the local talent in the Memphis area, as long as the local talent stays strong he'll probably do well...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 17:27:11 GMT -5
You recruit to your needs, and our needs were combo forward and center. They landed good players at both (Wahab, Alexander.) One of those players (Alexander) isn't figured into rankings because he's considered a transfer.
The roster is full of young players who are starting at their positions. We return 4 of 5 starters. 3 of those starters are Freshman. Center position is locked up. Opportunity to play early, and success of players at a similar position are the biggest selling points to recruits.
The 2019 year played out pretty much as expected imo. You landed 2 solid depth guys (Wahab, Alexander), and if one of Iggy or Wilson becomes a player it's a plus.
Staff has some descent guys to work with. Player development is the key.
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