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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 26, 2016 13:36:15 GMT -5
Lets just wait a minute. These big men look great in HS because they never see guys their size (Hopkins anyone?). This dude is way too big for his competition-at least in this clip. I'd want to see him up against guys 6'7" -6'10" who are quick. .....you do realize how old he is right? Context. I was going to refrain from responding to this comment because is it really worth it (?) but yeah, agree with Rock - think for a couple ticks before commenting so you at least have a shot at not coming off like an uninformed windbag. Apart from deconstructing a freaking hs underclassman, your Hopkins reference doesn't even make sense. Hopkins played for Dematha in an incredibly competitive wcac. He also wasn't a world-beater in high school as you imply but put up pretty modest numbers for the most part. So again, maybe sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 26, 2016 15:47:31 GMT -5
My point is that it makes no sense to get all excited about a guy who is playing against kids half his size. And yes DeMatha was in a very competitive league but Hopkins never faced the players he faced in the BE and it showed. I never saw a guy his size get stuffed more under the basket.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 26, 2016 18:59:51 GMT -5
My point is that it makes no sense to get all excited about a guy who is playing against kids half his size. And yes DeMatha was in a very competitive league but Hopkins never faced the players he faced in the BE and it showed. I never saw a guy his size get stuffed more under the basket. Well if you know how to evaluate talent within the context of the competition, then yes there is plenty to get excited about. And his point about Hopkins was that you're downplaying the level of competition he played against, but in high school the competition doesn't get any better than that, not to mention he played for takeover so to suggest that talent evaluators didn't see him face BE competition is silly. They're not Oak Hill but they still have a national schedule, so by your logic no one should ever get excited about what a big flashes in hs because they don't face college competition every game. Expecting Hop to have consistently played BE level competition in hs is so silly, jeez I feel like such a fool for even responding to this.....
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 26, 2016 20:04:01 GMT -5
My point is that it makes no sense to get all excited about a guy who is playing against kids half his size. And yes DeMatha was in a very competitive league but Hopkins never faced the players he faced in the BE and it showed. I never saw a guy his size get stuffed more under the basket. Well if you know how to evaluate talent within the context of the competition, then yes there is plenty to get excited about. And his point about Hopkins was that you're downplaying the level of competition he played against, but in high school the competition doesn't get any better than that, not to mention he played for takeover so to suggest that talent evaluators didn't see him face BE competition is silly. They're not Oak Hill but they still have a national schedule, so by your logic no one should ever get excited about what a big flashes in hs because they don't face college competition every game. Expecting Hop to have consistently played BE level competition in hs is so silly, jeez I feel like such a fool for even responding to this..... the WCAC is probably the best HS basketball conference that isnt a 5th yr prep academy so I dont know what player would ever live to that standard.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 26, 2016 20:14:31 GMT -5
the WCAC is probably the best HS basketball conference that isnt a 5th yr prep academy so I dont know what player would ever live to that standard. There are public and private leagues outside the Beltway that are the equal or better than the WCAC: Schools in CA, FL, TX, and Chicago all come to mind.
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 26, 2016 21:33:32 GMT -5
the WCAC is probably the best HS basketball conference that isnt a 5th yr prep academy so I dont know what player would ever live to that standard. There are public and private leagues outside the Beltway that are the equal or better than the WCAC: Schools in CA, FL, TX, and Chicago all come to mind. I did say probably. But i think SLAM had an article proclaiming it at one time. Things change from year to year but the WCAC always has like 20-30 players in it who play D1 ball.I remember when I played against Dematha in the early 90s every single guy in their top 9 got a div 1 schollie.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 26, 2016 22:27:08 GMT -5
the WCAC is probably the best HS basketball conference that isnt a 5th yr prep academy so I dont know what player would ever live to that standard. There are public and private leagues outside the Beltway that are the equal or better than the WCAC: Schools in CA, FL, TX, and Chicago all come to mind. Actually, you're wrong. Nice try though. What leagues come to mind? Be specific.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 26, 2016 22:46:09 GMT -5
There are public and private leagues outside the Beltway that are the equal or better than the WCAC: Schools in CA, FL, TX, and Chicago all come to mind. Actually, you're wrong. Nice try though. What leagues come to mind? Be specific. ' Obviously the IAC Not Biased at all
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 27, 2016 1:45:40 GMT -5
Actually, you're wrong. Nice try though. What leagues come to mind? Be specific. Some thoughts: the competitive leagues in the CIF-SS, the Chicago Public League, the Philadelphia Catholic League, the Hudson County (NJ) Interscholastic League, and some of the UIL 6-A districts around Houston are all very strong.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 27, 2016 7:24:57 GMT -5
Actually, you're wrong. Nice try though. What leagues come to mind? Be specific. Some thoughts: the competitive leagues in the CIF-SS, the Chicago Public League, the Philadelphia Catholic League, the Hudson County (NJ) Interscholastic League, and some of the UIL 6-A districts around Houston are all very strong. Still waiting for a league that's the equal to the WCAC. Your reflexive anti-East Coast bias is amazing sometimes.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Feb 27, 2016 11:31:30 GMT -5
I attended Norfolk Academy as well so I can offer a little insight into the school, coach league etc. Its a private school that places a high importance on academics which should be a big positive for Georgetown. The school and conference in general were never good at basketball but I think that started to change with James Mcadoo (UNC) a couple of years ago. The league always had a player or two who would end up at American, VMI, William and Mary etc but never high level players. Recently more players like Curtis Jones and now David are popping up in the league which makes me think that the schools are starting to "recruit" for basketball. Overall I am weary of any recruit that comes from the TCIS conference just because of the competition I remember, but again times may have changed. I have 0 faith in his high s coach to help him develop so most of that would have to take place on his own time. I'm interested to see how he fares over the next couple of years on the AAU circuit against better competition as other players develop. Also hopefully this helps with Keldon What he said.. My old lady oldest son plays for PCA..
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 27, 2016 11:40:53 GMT -5
Your reflexive anti-East Coast bias is amazing sometimes. There's lots of good HS basketball outside the District:" "Friday will be a historic night in Southern California as four of the top 25 high school basketball teams in America take the floor in the CIF Southern Section Open Divison semifinals [See full bracket here].
Last week's media composite rankings — polling nine different Top 25 producers — included No. 1 Chino Hills, No. 6 Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth), No. 8 Bishop Montgomery (Torrance) and No. 21 Mater Dei (Santa Ana). The four teams are on a collision course Friday night, as well as March 5 in the final."www.maxpreps.com/news/jzwQe8bAIEucI33nf-YcxA/four-nationally-ranked-teams-to-meet-friday-in-cif-southern-section-open-divison-semifinals.htmYour reflexive need to be a contrarian is, well, amazing sometimes.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Feb 27, 2016 12:41:11 GMT -5
Your reflexive anti-East Coast bias is amazing sometimes. There's lots of good HS basketball outside the District:" "Friday will be a historic night in Southern California as four of the top 25 high school basketball teams in America take the floor in the CIF Southern Section Open Divison semifinals [See full bracket here].
Last week's media composite rankings — polling nine different Top 25 producers — included No. 1 Chino Hills, No. 6 Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth), No. 8 Bishop Montgomery (Torrance) and No. 21 Mater Dei (Santa Ana). The four teams are on a collision course Friday night, as well as March 5 in the final."www.maxpreps.com/news/jzwQe8bAIEucI33nf-YcxA/four-nationally-ranked-teams-to-meet-friday-in-cif-southern-section-open-divison-semifinals.htmYour reflexive need to be a contrarian is, well, amazing sometimes. I do not believe that narcissistic personality disorder made it into the DSM-V ... contrarian falls a bit short. DFW is correct and appropriately highlights the Hudson County Interscholastic League in NJ. Wait. You can't highlight Hudson County ... they are on the east coast and you have a reflexive anti-East Coast bias.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2016 18:06:18 GMT -5
Your reflexive anti-East Coast bias is amazing sometimes. There's lots of good HS basketball outside the District:" "Friday will be a historic night in Southern California as four of the top 25 high school basketball teams in America take the floor in the CIF Southern Section Open Divison semifinals [See full bracket here].
Last week's media composite rankings — polling nine different Top 25 producers — included No. 1 Chino Hills, No. 6 Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth), No. 8 Bishop Montgomery (Torrance) and No. 21 Mater Dei (Santa Ana). The four teams are on a collision course Friday night, as well as March 5 in the final."www.maxpreps.com/news/jzwQe8bAIEucI33nf-YcxA/four-nationally-ranked-teams-to-meet-friday-in-cif-southern-section-open-divison-semifinals.htmYour reflexive need to be a contrarian is, well, amazing sometimes. I live in LA Those teams don't play in the same league together. That's an open division basketball tournament you linked Only league competing with the WCAC would be NEPSAC imo...
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 27, 2016 20:33:41 GMT -5
There's lots of good HS basketball outside the District:" "Friday will be a historic night in Southern California as four of the top 25 high school basketball teams in America take the floor in the CIF Southern Section Open Divison semifinals [See full bracket here].
Last week's media composite rankings — polling nine different Top 25 producers — included No. 1 Chino Hills, No. 6 Sierra Canyon (Chatsworth), No. 8 Bishop Montgomery (Torrance) and No. 21 Mater Dei (Santa Ana). The four teams are on a collision course Friday night, as well as March 5 in the final."www.maxpreps.com/news/jzwQe8bAIEucI33nf-YcxA/four-nationally-ranked-teams-to-meet-friday-in-cif-southern-section-open-divison-semifinals.htmYour reflexive need to be a contrarian is, well, amazing sometimes. I live in LA Those teams don't play in the same league together. That's an open division basketball tournament you linked Only league competing with the WCAC would be NEPSAC imo... which has some 5th yr players. The top teams in the WCAC have 5-7 d1 players on their roster. I remember when Kendall Marshall was a senior and his team barely finished above .500. A team with player that good would never have a record that bad in any other conference in the country.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 28, 2016 17:54:33 GMT -5
Getting back to my point....It is very hard to evaluate big men unless they play against other big men consistently in high school. And my experience going to 10-15 HS games a year in Central Pa is that they very rarely do. Even in tough leagues like the WCAC they aren't going to face a lot a guys their size. Sorta like the great Little League pitcher who at 12 years old is 5'10" and weighs 165. He dominates. But when the rest of the kids grow up to meet him in High School he is just average. All I am saying is that before getting all excited about a guy like McCormack look at who he is playing against. And based on those videos he is playing against much smaller, less developed players than he will see in college. Look, Jesse Govan led his team to a NYC championship. But you can't look at him play and seriously think he will be an impact player for us unless he grows a pair of hands, can dribble drive to the hoop and learns to jump and be aggressive without just pushing people (something Derickson also needs to learn). In HS all he needed to do is get the ball down low and put it in. He could dominate without possessing the skills or the athleticism needed to compete at the elite D1 level. Check out Govan's body language. It just screams, "whoa, these guys are really good. HELP!"
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 28, 2016 19:18:01 GMT -5
Getting back to my point....It is very hard to evaluate big men unless they play against other big men consistently in high school. And my experience going to 10-15 HS games a year in Central Pa is that they very rarely do. Even in tough leagues like the WCAC they aren't going to face a lot a guys their size. Sorta like the great Little League pitcher who at 12 years old is 5'10" and weighs 165. He dominates. But when the rest of the kids grow up to meet him in High School he is just average. All I am saying is that before getting all excited about a guy like McCormack look at who he is playing against. And based on those videos he is playing against much smaller, less developed players than he will see in college. Look, Jesse Govan led his team to a NYC championship. But you can't look at him play and seriously think he will be an impact player for us unless he grows a pair of hands, can dribble drive to the hoop and learns to jump and be aggressive without just pushing people (something Derickson also needs to learn). In HS all he needed to do is get the ball dowbn low and put it in. He could dominate without possessing the skills or the athleticism needed to compete at the elite D1 level. Check out Govan's body language. It just screams, "whoa, these guys are really good. HELP!" Ehhh I think facing someone your size in AAU happens for them though. It is more being 18yrs old and not used to banging against people for 3 years like BE bigs do. Playing the WCAC will get you prepared for knowing that there are people who are well coached and just as talented as you. That 1 person cant win a whole game by themselves. I remember how Chris Wright would score like 38 versus DeMatha but never win because they had more talent.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Feb 28, 2016 19:23:34 GMT -5
Getting back to my point....It is very hard to evaluate big men unless they play against other big men consistently in high school. And my experience going to 10-15 HS games a year in Central Pa is that they very rarely do. Even in tough leagues like the WCAC they aren't going to face a lot a guys their size. Sorta like the great Little League pitcher who at 12 years old is 5'10" and weighs 165. He dominates. But when the rest of the kids grow up to meet him in High School he is just average. All I am saying is that before getting all excited about a guy like McCormack look at who he is playing against. And based on those videos he is playing against much smaller, less developed players than he will see in college. Look, Jesse Govan led his team to a NYC championship. But you can't look at him play and seriously think he will be an impact player for us unless he grows a pair of hands, can dribble drive to the hoop and learns to jump and be aggressive without just pushing people (something Derickson also needs to learn). In HS all he needed to do is get the ball down low and put it in. He could dominate without possessing the skills or the athleticism needed to compete at the elite D1 level. Check out Govan's body language. It just screams, "whoa, these guys are really good. HELP!" "Very hard" seems to be very subjective in this context. Maybe you might find it very hard to do, but there are plenty on this board that do believe it or not. Lmao and I completely missed the part where you called Jessie unskilled. Now things are making more sense....
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 29, 2016 10:40:15 GMT -5
Yeah I dont think its Jesse thinking these guys are really good. Its more not being used to being able to just bully people. It takes time if you are not uber athletic to get used to making shots with a huge guy hanging on you. Jessie biggest flaw is that he is not very good at feeling the help. I think he thought I am college now no one will ever double me again because I have teammates who can score. He has problems with the help digging hard. Wideman just abused him also with his scouting. He knows Jessie's always going to try to get to that right hook.
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Post by hoyamonarch on Feb 29, 2016 11:50:52 GMT -5
Getting back to my point....It is very hard to evaluate big men unless they play against other big men consistently in high school. And my experience going to 10-15 HS games a year in Central Pa is that they very rarely do. Even in tough leagues like the WCAC they aren't going to face a lot a guys their size. Sorta like the great Little League pitcher who at 12 years old is 5'10" and weighs 165. He dominates. But when the rest of the kids grow up to meet him in High School he is just average. All I am saying is that before getting all excited about a guy like McCormack look at who he is playing against. And based on those videos he is playing against much smaller, less developed players than he will see in college. Look, Jesse Govan led his team to a NYC championship. But you can't look at him play and seriously think he will be an impact player for us unless he grows a pair of hands, can dribble drive to the hoop and learns to jump and be aggressive without just pushing people (something Derickson also needs to learn). In HS all he needed to do is get the ball down low and put it in. He could dominate without possessing the skills or the athleticism needed to compete at the elite D1 level. Check out Govan's body language. It just screams, "whoa, these guys are really good. HELP!" Jessie Govan is certainy going to be an impact player. WHy would someone 7 foot- 275 pound have to be able to dribble drive to the hoop? Granted, he does need to improve, but he's played pretty well for a freshman in the Big East. Heck, look at Daniel Ochefu, who's numbers pale in comparison (as a freshman) to Govans. The only thing Ochefu's even compares to Govan with is rebound rate. Listen to what other coaches say about Govan, they are extremely impressed.
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