blueeagle
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Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Jan 24, 2016 16:18:07 GMT -5
An honest question: Do you think that last year's team was better than this year's team? If an NCAA at-large bid is the standard?
At this point last year, I recall that we were quite bubble-licious though seemed more secure of an invitation.
DSR was and remains our best player. Other than Ewing, the coaching staff is the same. Back then, Cameron and Hayes were non-factors. Is it our youth and lack of experience then?
No agenda here. Again, just an honest question.
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Jan 24, 2016 16:38:41 GMT -5
Too soon?
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 24, 2016 16:53:41 GMT -5
Copeland certainly was better LY and we miss Jabril in a big way.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 24, 2016 20:23:28 GMT -5
I was so sure this team was better than last year's I would have bet the house that we'd compete for the BE championship. Last year Josh Smith was a joke and Hop and all our bigs were an offensive turnover waiting to happen. I expected our offense this year to score a ton of points and I thought Ike and our incoming freshmen would bring tremendous athleticism to our defense. But I think I was so focused on the offensive limits of last years team I didn't appreciate how much better a defensive team they were. We really miss Jabril's defensive tenacity and yes, Hop's shot blocking. Watching Nova over the past two years it is noticeable how much D they bring to every game. In our game their offense stunk (owing in part to our improved D) but they threw a defense at us that was just smothering. So while I think our personnel this year is better than last year's I think we just aren't as good a defensive club and it is making us a less effective - and consistent - team.
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Jan 24, 2016 21:52:07 GMT -5
Based on the dearth of responses, I suppose most on this board are as puzzled as I am.
One gains an added appreciation for the contributions of flawed but tenacious ball players like Jabril and Hop.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 24, 2016 22:13:39 GMT -5
I think it boils down to a young team this year that lost some valuable leadership in Trawick. He had tremendous heart that I think was underestimated when evaluating this year's team. Time for III to go back to Philly to find another guard with some fight.
Bottom line, they seem a bit over matched down the stretch in a lot of these games that are close. That could be youth but with CBB you don't have much time to go from youth to experienced.
Next year will be telling if this team returns the Sophomore and Freshman classes and can't move forward. I'm sure we'll still blame the players but an interesting thought.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 24, 2016 22:26:39 GMT -5
I prefer watching this team over last year's.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 24, 2016 22:28:15 GMT -5
An honest question: Do you think that last year's team was better than this year's team? If an NCAA at-large bid is the standard? At this point last year, I recall that we were quite bubble-licious though seemed more secure of an invitation. DSR was and remains our best player. Other than Ewing, the coaching staff is the same. Back then, Cameron and Hayes were non-factors. Is it our youth and lack of experience then? No agenda here. Again, just an honest question. Coke. I don't think you can compare the two because of the new freedom of movement rules. Last year's team with the freedom of movement rules probably has LJ Peak and certainly Jabril Trawick fouling out of every game. Add that to Joshua Smith's foul problems keeping him off the floor and you are basically looking at an offense that consists of DSR, a better but inconsistent Copeland and a healthy Paul White to run the offense. And that's not very good considering the offense struggled badly when Smith was out. The offense worked best when DSR, Trawick and Smith were in at the same time because of Trawick's ability to dribble penetrate and finish or kick and hit the 3. Now Trawick's dribble penetration would be really useful under the new rules but he wouldn't be able to stay on the floor because his defense would be considered a foul now. Ironically the one guy from last year's team who we probably really could use is Hopkins because of his rim protecting ability and his ability to shut down Creighton with his defense Overall, I think last year's team is in big trouble under this year's rules because of the lack of offense and the fact that we really didn't have many consistent 3pt weapons compared to this year's team which has the addition of (Cameron, Derrickson, Govan) as 3pt weapons. And shooting 3's seems to be the best way to deal with freedom of movement especially if you can't dribble penetrate.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 24, 2016 22:33:54 GMT -5
I prefer watching this team over last year's. You must be a glass is half full guy as last year's team would have it's way with this years team not on ability but on how they played the game. Our lack of a tournament berth will be the decider on that.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 24, 2016 22:34:59 GMT -5
An honest question: Do you think that last year's team was better than this year's team? If an NCAA at-large bid is the standard? At this point last year, I recall that we were quite bubble-licious though seemed more secure of an invitation. DSR was and remains our best player. Other than Ewing, the coaching staff is the same. Back then, Cameron and Hayes were non-factors. Is it our youth and lack of experience then? No agenda here. Again, just an honest question. Coke. I don't think you can compare the two because of the new freedom of movement rules. Last year's team with the freedom of movement rules probably has LJ Peak and certainly Jabril Trawick fouling out of every game. Add that to Joshua Smith's foul problems keeping him off the floor and you are basically looking at an offense that consists of DSR, a better but inconsistent Copeland and a healthy Paul White to run the offense. And that's not very good considering the offense struggled badly when Smith was out. The offense worked best when DSR, Trawick and Smith were in at the same time because of Trawick's ability to dribble penetrate and finish or kick and hit the 3. Now Trawick's dribble penetration would be really useful under the new rules but he wouldn't be able to stay on the floor because his defense would be considered a foul now. Ironically the one guy from last year's team who we probably really could use is Hopkins because of his rim protecting ability and his ability to shut down Creighton with his defense Overall, I think last year's team is in big trouble under this year's rules because of the lack of offense and the fact that we really didn't have many consistent 3pt weapons compared to this year's team which has the addition of (Cameron, Derrickson, Govan) as 3pt weapons. And shooting 3's seems to be the best way to deal with freedom of movement especially if you can't dribble penetrate. Let's stop with the refs and rule changes. If the rules changed and we weren't prepared for that than who is to blame. Let me guess the players?
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 24, 2016 23:12:34 GMT -5
IDK...Dr Pepper? Light beer? Astronaut ice cream?
Every team is a unique concoction and...you know what, I'm not dragging out this metaphor.
Sometimes it works, sometimes less so.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 25, 2016 0:17:54 GMT -5
Coke. I don't think you can compare the two because of the new freedom of movement rules. Last year's team with the freedom of movement rules probably has LJ Peak and certainly Jabril Trawick fouling out of every game. Add that to Joshua Smith's foul problems keeping him off the floor and you are basically looking at an offense that consists of DSR, a better but inconsistent Copeland and a healthy Paul White to run the offense. And that's not very good considering the offense struggled badly when Smith was out. The offense worked best when DSR, Trawick and Smith were in at the same time because of Trawick's ability to dribble penetrate and finish or kick and hit the 3. Now Trawick's dribble penetration would be really useful under the new rules but he wouldn't be able to stay on the floor because his defense would be considered a foul now. Ironically the one guy from last year's team who we probably really could use is Hopkins because of his rim protecting ability and his ability to shut down Creighton with his defense Overall, I think last year's team is in big trouble under this year's rules because of the lack of offense and the fact that we really didn't have many consistent 3pt weapons compared to this year's team which has the addition of (Cameron, Derrickson, Govan) as 3pt weapons. And shooting 3's seems to be the best way to deal with freedom of movement especially if you can't dribble penetrate. Let's stop with the refs and rule changes. If the rules changed and we weren't prepared for that than who is to blame. Let me guess the players? But it makes all the difference EagleLinebacker54. Half the stuff a great player like yourself did would be illegal in the watered down all offense/no defense college football and NFL now. Pretty soon they will be putting a tutu on the quarterback and wide receivers and in 10-20 years the game will be two hand touch or flag football. It's a travesty what they have done to the game.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 25, 2016 0:29:46 GMT -5
Let's stop with the refs and rule changes. If the rules changed and we weren't prepared for that than who is to blame. Let me guess the players? But it makes all the difference EagleLinebacker54. Half the stuff a great player like yourself did would be illegal in the watered down all offense/no defense college football and NFL now. Pretty soon they will be putting a tutu on the quarterback and wide receivers and in 10-20 years the game will be two hand touch or flag football. It's a travesty what they have done to the game. Oh, it's you again Professor. What a joy. Your moniker is a misnomer as you have rocks in your head. Your name is trying to compensate for that. The basketball rule changes were clear to all. To try and use it as another tired excuse is getting old even for your act. Get a clue and let's hope you aren't actually teaching anyone and just using that moniker to make yourself feel smart.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 25, 2016 0:54:22 GMT -5
I think it's tough to say whether this year's team is better than last years. I do think last year's team played closer to its potential than this year's team, in the sense that I think the 2014-2015 team was somewhat flawed, and there's only so good they were going to be. You also have to consider that the offense essentially consisted of DSR and Smith (when he wasn't sitting on the bench with fouls), and basically nothing else.
As far as expectations, I think the biggest problem is the sophomore class. After last year, I think we expected all 4 guys to improve and none of them have:
(1) White is injured; obviously he can't play, so he's a non-entity this season. As a result, he's a net negative compared to last year.
(2) After a fairly strong Campbell freshman year (arguably the best freshman PG we've had) on offense, Campbell began the season injured and until recently hasn't really shown much. I do think Campbell has been showing signs of improvement, and a bigger willingness to drive rather than aimlessly pass. Still, so far he's not as good as he was last year.
(3) Copeland is also underperforming last season. Obviously, he's in a huge rut now. Overall, his efficiency is down and his defense has been suspect at times. So again, a net negative compared to last year.
(4) Peak is the only sophomore who has shown a fairly strong improvement in offensive efficiency, yet his fouling rate has grown so substantially that it's hard for him to stay on the floor. So, on offense he's improved, and on defense, I would say he hasn't given the fouls.
So, on balance, the sophomore class is worse than last year; that's a real problem. Part of it is bad luck (White), and part of it is...well, who knows?
Now, the current freshman (especially Govan) have been good, but somewhat inconsistent aside from Govan. Are they ask good as Trawick and Hopkins combined? That's hard to compare since they are different players. The combination of Govan/Hayes is a huge improvement offensively over Hopkins. It is not an improvement defensively, but Govan has steadily improved too so I am not sure it's as big a difference as some think.
On balance, I actually think it's pretty close...and thus, impossible to say until the end of the season.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 25, 2016 1:36:02 GMT -5
Ironically the one guy from last year's team who we probably really could use is Hopkins because of his rim protecting ability and his ability to shut down Creighton with his defense Hops couldn't stay out of foul trouble under last year's "old" rules. Remember the two fouls before the first TV time-out. How in the world are we supposed to imagine Hops under the new rules being able to stay on the court to help the team?
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zxhoya
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Post by zxhoya on Jan 25, 2016 6:48:50 GMT -5
Coke! All day, every day.
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blueeagle
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Win or lose, it's the school we choose.
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Post by blueeagle on Jan 25, 2016 9:05:40 GMT -5
The new freedom of movement rules were already being phased in last season. Not so sure that is the reason.
The team is lacking "meanery," perhaps? No enforcer?
It is too bad that we seem unable to make the next step as a team. We may have already dug ourselves too deep of a hole so late in the season. I just hope we are able to build for the future and avoid having to retool because of early exits or transfers. Losing talented personnel is something most big time programs have to deal with in this age of one-and-dones. I just think that our system requires a longer simmering time.
No rumor mongering, here. I just think we always have to be prepared and plan for such contingencies. Just remind yourself how you felt when DSR declared for the draft.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2016 9:28:28 GMT -5
An honest question: Do you think that last year's team was better than this year's team? If an NCAA at-large bid is the standard? At this point last year, I recall that we were quite bubble-licious though seemed more secure of an invitation. DSR was and remains our best player. Other than Ewing, the coaching staff is the same. Back then, Cameron and Hayes were non-factors. Is it our youth and lack of experience then? No agenda here. Again, just an honest question. Last year's team is better... The team played better defense and you had more players that led the team in scoring in various games last year...DSR, Peak, Ike, Bowen, Smith Last year's team was deeper with a better bench which would contribute scoring, defense, rebounds and athleticism. Contributing bench players at the end of last year (the starting lineup changed during the season): Aaron Bowen Tre Campbell Paul White Reggie Cameron Mikael Hopkins-was removed from the starting 5
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 25, 2016 10:06:31 GMT -5
Like I said, last year's team was probably better because they play defense better. But I have to agree with hoyaspirit that this year's team is more fun to watch. Having big men who can shoot is a real thrill. Last year it seemed we were playing 4 against 5 on offense. I still think these guys are getting the message and they will surprise us down the road.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 25, 2016 10:51:41 GMT -5
Villanova's '85 team certainly chose coke.
I haven't responded to the OP because I truly am puzzled. What I do know is this year's team is far more frustrating based on performance vs. expectations.
Getting into the personnel changes, we really have lost 5 players from last year's team -- Hop, Smith, Trawick, White and Copeland: -- the addition of the frosh more than compensates for the loss of Smith -- I understand the arguments that the loss of Hopkins hurts from a rim protection standpoint. Watching Hayes foul any time a guard gets into the paint (which is just about every play!) is frustrating and I think Hop would have done a better job. However, his offense was so limited that this his loss with PT going to Hayes and Govan seems like a net positive to me. -- Trawick is a big loss because of his intensity and leadership, and the fact that he would at least have been able to D up and stop some of the guard penetration that we are seeing. However, I agree with some others around here - he probably would have fouled out before halftime given the way games are being call this year. -- We miss White's passing and ball handling, but I had mild expectations for him for this season, so I simply refuse to attribute much of this season's woes to his loss -- to me, a lot of it comes down to Cope. Not only have we lost his production but he is actually a liability out there. I don't meant to savage the guy, who seems like a really nice kid. His fall-off is just inexplicable and has really hurt the team, since I thought he was going to be the number two guy (behind DSR) for this team. Still hoping he can figure it out.
Not sure what the stats show, but our eyes tells us that our offense is better than last year and our defense is far worse. Still think this team has much more potential, which is why there is so much frustration around here.
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