Can Jessie Govan be the Best Big in the JT3 Era?

[Hoyas4Ever]

Obviously not yet! A better question is based on the way he is developing, his skill set, and how it translates to the next level, will Jessie be the best Big Man at BIG MAN U in the JT3 era, whenever Jessie's career on the Hilltop concludes? 

In in this article by Adam Zagoria on Zagsblog, Jessie great play of recent is catching the attention of those that track potential draft prospects for The Association. 

"Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress.com also made some slight changes in the site's 2017 Mock, including inserting 7-foot Omar Yurtseven, a native of Uzbekistan, into the No. 9 spot; putting 6-8 Purdue freshman Caleb Swanigan into the No. 22 position; and adding 6-11 Georgetown freshman Jessie Govan onto the board at No. 28. Govan is a New York native who led Wings Academy to the New York State Federation title last season."

As of now I would imagine the consensus list of top Big's under JT3 are as follows:

1. Big Roy Hibbert (Lead team to only Final 4 in JT3 era and completely outplayed the eventual #1 pick in National Semifinal Game. Drafted 17th in the Association. Was projected a top 10 lock if he left after his Junior year)

2. Greg Monroe (Probably the most potential/fluidity of any of the JT3 Big's. The highest ranked player under JT3. No NCAA success in his 2 years. Drafted 7th in the Association after leaving at the conclusion of sophomore season)

3. Henry Sims (Didn't do anything until Senior Year but it was a very good senior season.)

4. Bradley Hayes (For all the Love/Hate that Hayes gets on this board, he's had a very good senior year so far...)

5. Joshua Smith (Physically and potentially the most gifted Big. Was way to inconsistent. Had some dominant moments/games that left you wondering why not every or most games. Too bad potential was never achieved while wearing the Blue & Gray)

6. Jessie Govan (Could potentially be #4 before this season is over. Could he potentially catch Greg Monroe on this list? I don't think Govan will be on campus long enough to surpass Big Roy unless he leads us to a National Championship. Here's hoping!)

7. Mikael Hopkins (Very good defensive player who played pretty much his entire career out of position. Unfortunately his offensive game never truly developed. It did improve towards the end of his senior year but he was never someone you good go to consistently for buckets)

8. Julian Vaughn (To be fair he played out of position and just wasn't a great fit after transferring from Florida State)


Agree/Disagree? Let me know your thoughts? 

[hobokenhoya]

I love Jessie and think he has a chance to be top 3 on this list when all is said and done, but he really has to improve his hands. He has some of the worst hands I've seen on a guy his size and is as skilled as he is...on the plus side, it's such a luxury having a big shoot free throws at 80%, let alone 90%.

It seems he's still learning how to operate that big body of his, which makes sense for someone his size and age. As he gets more coordinated and his hands improve, he will be a monster.

[lucky]

If memory serves, he is young for his class. Hopefully time cures the hands issues, overall, I've been impressed with his play.

[lurkerhoya]

Roy gets the appropriate loyalty bump because he was a 4 year player who went to a FF, but he didn't "lead" that team to it. No knock on him, but he was not the top banana on that team. Greg was just unquestionably a better player, IMO; better passer, used his size better, better penetrator.

Tough to rank, I own a Hibbert jersey, not a Monroe one so I guess I have to say my objective and subjective lists are different.

No way can I put Josh above Hop. Each were equally maddening, but I guess, again, subjectively, it never felt like Hop was leaving anything on the table. His limitations were what they were, and maddeningly infuriating at times, but you never felt like he could be more if he just worked harder. Tough to say the same about Josh, so I just can't give him that boost. Given that, I look at Hop, Sims and Hayes in the same bucket as G'town lifers fighting for those spots and I give the nod to Hop, Hank, Hayes, mostly because Hop was a regular player for a longer period, and was never a true center but had to be one, and at least took on the role with aplomb. Really at that point, it's just a subjective choice between out-of-position players and the one-year culmination of 4 year projects.

As for Jesse, time will tell. He certainly has the potential to get into 3-4 territory on this list by the end of the season. And by virtue of my analysis above, can play his way into the top-3 with another year. Tough to see him supplanting either Greg or Roy without a third season. He unquestionably has a different skill set than either of them at this point in that he is a better FT shooter than either for the time being, he has excellent footwork, a three-point game, and is above-average defensively. The big areas of development will be the hands (but I think that will come, I tend to think it's just a speed of the game thing), a mid-range game, and awareness to beast defensively in the middle. Time will tell, but I have high hopes, he just looks like too much of a baller not to get develop.

[Hoyas4Ever]

He is a little young in terms of today's elite college freshman. He turned 18 at the end of July (07/25/1997). For example Dwayne Bacon (Florida St.) and Mamadi Diakite (Virginia) are 2 freshman that come to mind that are over 20 years old already. I am sure there are plenty more. Rawle Atkins will be 19 before his first college game.

His hands have already improved significantly since the beginning of the season when he couldn't catch a cold and especially struggled with rebounds.

[Deleted]

Very good, not better than Monroe though....

[Hoyas4Ever]

Jan 15, 2016 9:02:07 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Very good, not better than Monroe though....

YaBoy you don't think Jessie has a chance to be better then Monroe by the time he moves on from Georgetown? I think he has an outside chance depending how long he stays, how he continues to develop and what type of success we have with him in the blue & gray. I agree it's a huge hill for him to climb because Monroe stepped on campus as a freshman a  potential double double candidate every game. Yeah your probably right about Monroe being better but Jessie probably has more upside. 

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2016 9:28:57 GMT -5 Hoyas4Ever said:

Jan 15, 2016 9:02:07 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Very good, not better than Monroe though....

YaBoy you don't think Jessie has a chance to be better then Monroe by the time he moves on from Georgetown? I think he has an outside chance depending how long he stays, how he continues to develop and what type of success we have with him in the blue & gray. I agree it's a huge hill for him to climb because Monroe stepped on campus as a freshman a  potential double double candidate every game. Yeah your probably right about Monroe being better but Jessie probably has more upside. 

Hopefully he gets there but Monroe averaged 16 10 and 3 as a Soph. Those are very loud stats for a Big. Jessie is a much better shooter though for sure and if they can max out on his athleticism you never know. Just saying that Monroe bar despite not winning a tourney game is very high

[Hoyas4Ever]

Jan 15, 2016 9:36:09 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Jan 15, 2016 9:28:57 GMT -5 Hoyas4Ever said:

YaBoy you don't think Jessie has a chance to be better then Monroe by the time he moves on from Georgetown? I think he has an outside chance depending how long he stays, how he continues to develop and what type of success we have with him in the blue & gray. I agree it's a huge hill for him to climb because Monroe stepped on campus as a freshman a  potential double double candidate every game. Yeah your probably right about Monroe being better but Jessie probably has more upside. 

Hopefully he gets there but Monroe averaged 16 10 and 3 as a Soph. Those are very loud stats for a Big. Jessie is a much better shooter though for sure and if they can max out on his athleticism you never know. Just saying that Monroe bar despite not winning a tourney game is very high

No I agree with you. I talked myself out of it being a possibility as I was trying to make my previous point. Monroe started so far ahead of Govan skill wise that it may make it impossible to catch. Your right about those stats...Whoa!

[OldHoyafan]

Seem to remember that Henry and Hopkins had trouble with the hands when they first got to Georgetown. Henry got better, but Hopkins did not. I think Hopkins hands were small for a 6'9" player, which contributed to him not being able to finish. Anyone know if Jessie has hands that match his height. The one quality that Henry had that was better than Monroe was his ability to pass the ball in his senior season. I remember that it was commented upon often that his passes to a cutting teammate were so late in the backdoor cutter's break, but accurate. The defender would often give up on the cutter only to see Henry deliver the pass a step from the basket. None of the present Hoyas have shown that skill yet. If Jessie developes that confidence in his passes this offense goes to another level. One complaint JTIII has had for the last couple of years is that the cutters are not cutting hard enough. It's hard to get a player to cut hard all the way to and pass the basket when routinely the pass is not thrown. He may not be open for a pass but for one step of the ten steps on his cut. Henry would deliver that pass one step from the basket, which made his teammates confident that they would get that pass if they cut hard enough to get that open one step window.

[SFHoya99]

Just general thoughts...

* Monroe was clearly the most talented overall -- remember, when he left, Hibbert was basically running on half of a pretty good season.

* But Hibbert was far and away the best. He didn't lead the Final Four team in the sense of being clearly the best player, but two things changed that season. One was Jeff improving and being offensively assertive. And the second was Thompson basically letting Roy be the lane defender and having him own it, reducing the help D. He was the reason for the defensive improvement that drove us to the Final Four. And he was the reason we had an elite defense the next year. Monroe was never close to the defensive player Roy was.

* Govan's going to be #3.

* Henry Sims actually had a decent junior year. People always forget this because he struggled down the stretch, but the dude was very good in Charleston and showed huge strides.

* The idea that Hayes is above Smith, Hopkins or even Julian Vaughn seems wrong to me. He'll always have a nice place in my heart for his play versus Eastern Washington, but he's half a player at best right now.

[HometownHoya]

Hibbert - Monroe - Govan (if he plays up to our hopes/room to pass Monroe with NCAA success) - Sims - Smith - Hop - Hayes - Vaughn.

Agreed with what SF said about Hayes. Definitely has the ability to pass Smith/Hop with a consistent rest of season and a strong showing in the post-season.

This being said though, it kind of shows the bad luck (or something else) we've had with bigs the past 10 years. Any of the players not top 3 in the list had major flaws in their games for the majority of their time at Georgetown.

[ksf42001]

Am I remembering Vaughn differently than other people? There's no way he was the worst starting center of the JTIII era. The worst thing you could say about his senior year was that he started to fade towards the end (assumed to be overall fatigue at the time). He put up 8 pts / 6rbs / 2blks a game, with decent post moves and competent defense. If you told me I could have that Vaughn or current Hayes on this team right now, I make that trade in a second.

[gamp]

Monroe!

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2016 13:09:50 GMT -5 ksf42001 said:

Am I remembering Vaughn differently than other people? There's no way he was the worst starting center of the JTIII era. The worst thing you could say about his senior year was that he started to fade towards the end (assumed to be overall fatigue at the time). He put up 8 pts / 6rbs / 2blks a game, with decent post moves and competent defense. If you told me I could have that Vaughn or current Hayes on this team right now, I make that trade in a second.

No - definitely not the worst. He was pretty solid, but never spectacular. Hop-type numbers on the defensive end (Rebs/Blks), without the putrid offense. Probably wasn't the 1-on-1 defender Hop was, but didn't foul as much either. He was the type of big we needed on teams with that much talent.

I'd put him 4th of the guys listed, behind only Roy/Greg and Henry. Josh and Hop had great talent/athleticism/promise but were deeply flawed all-around guys. Bradley has had a solid 1/2 year, but not significantly better than Julian's and who knows how it will finish.

I see Jessie settling into that 3rd spot eventually, but hold out hope that he can be the best of the bunch. Gotta work on defending w/o fouling (to let him play ~30mpg going forward) and a consistent low post game (dude will be a monster from FT line if he can demand and threaten down low).

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 15, 2016 12:00:56 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

* Henry Sims actually had a decent junior year. People always forget this because he struggled down the stretch, but the dude was very good in Charleston and showed huge strides.

I have said this a bunch of times on HoyaTalk, but people continually push the theme that Sims wasn't good until he was a senior. As you said, that's simply not true. It's true he barely played sophomore year behind Monroe, but he played a fair amount junior year and made solid contributions. He did get a lot better senior year (which people remember), but the idea that Sims' senior year came out of nowhere is fiction.

I also agree with another poster that Vaughn is in no way the worst on the list. Vaughn made solid contributions to the program for three years.

As far as NBA success, I think Monroe will easily be the most successful of the bunch. Hibbert had a series of high quality years following by two of decline, whereas Monroe is still going strong. My sense is that Monroe will probably have more staying power, too.

[prhoya]

Jan 15, 2016 14:01:34 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Jan 15, 2016 12:00:56 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

* Henry Sims actually had a decent junior year. People always forget this because he struggled down the stretch, but the dude was very good in Charleston and showed huge strides.

I have said this a bunch of times on HoyaTalk, but people continually push the theme that Sims wasn't good until he was a senior. As you said, that's simply not true. It's true he barely played sophomore year behind Monroe, but he played a fair amount junior year and made solid contributions. He did get a lot better senior year (which people remember), but the idea that Sims' senior year came out of nowhere is fiction.

Did you hear/read what JT3 said about Sims at the beginning of this season? Sims decided to take the game seriously for his senior season. JT3 said it. Period. If you want to argue against JT3 on internal matters, then I don't know what to say.

HT needs a thread with easily referenced articles that settle several myths around here.

[prhoya]

Jan 15, 2016 13:09:50 GMT -5 ksf42001 said:

Am I remembering Vaughn differently than other people? There's no way he was the worst starting center of the JTIII era. The worst thing you could say about his senior year was that he started to fade towards the end (assumed to be overall fatigue at the time). He put up 8 pts / 6rbs / 2blks a game, with decent post moves and competent defense. If you told me I could have that Vaughn or current Hayes on this team right now, I make that trade in a second.

I would take Vaughn over Hopkins and Smith any day. Govan will be special if he stays three years. Vaughn over Hayes right now? Tough, but I think Hayes will get even better and more competitive as March approaches instead of fading. If his pt decreases, it's because Govan is making huge noise (great for all).

[aleutianhoya]

JTIII's comments that Sims didn't try very hard until his senior year and saying that he contributed as a junior aren't mutually exclusive.

As a junior, he played in 32 games, playing 15 minutes per game. Averaged 4, 3, and 1 as a junior. Obviously, not great. But he shot an exceedingly high 58% from the field, so it was more that he wasn't shooting than anything else. In any event, it's far from nothing. Indeed, in slightly more MPG, Jesse is averaging 7, 4 and less than 1. I expect those numbers to increase (at least we all hope they will). But the point is that when you're getting about 15 MPG, Sims' numbers aren't abysmal.

III's comments (and Sims' own admission) is simply evidence that his junior year (and earlier year) numbers should have been that much better.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 15, 2016 14:50:21 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jan 15, 2016 14:01:34 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I have said this a bunch of times on HoyaTalk, but people continually push the theme that Sims wasn't good until he was a senior. As you said, that's simply not true. It's true he barely played sophomore year behind Monroe, but he played a fair amount junior year and made solid contributions. He did get a lot better senior year (which people remember), but the idea that Sims' senior year came out of nowhere is fiction.

Did you hear/read what JT3 said about Sims at the beginning of this season? Sims decided to take the game seriously for his senior season. JT3 said it. Period. If you want to argue against JT3 on internal matters, then I don't know what to say.

HT needs a thread with easily referenced articles that settle several myths around here.

aleutianhoya largely responded to this. But, if you want to look at "easily referenced articles," I think you should take a look at this one: www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/22/AR2010122205084.html

This article is from December 23, 2010 - during Henry Sims' junior year:

"After those final frustrating days of a sophomore season in which he played less than seven minutes on average, Sims, at the urging of Coach John Thompson III, returned to his home town of Baltimore - not to work on his game, but rather to rededicate himself to it."

"Thompson agreed with Sims's blunt self-assessment, saying, "Last year, Henry enjoyed college a little too much. But his mom is extremely important to him and a big influence on him, and collectively, they got him back on track." "His mental approach is much better than last year," Thompson said. "Last year, he almost thought he could just show up and good things would happen as opposed to understanding that mentally, physically, emotionally, you have to be prepared. He's also just been more serious about basketball, about his preparation. This year, he's realized that basketball is important to him."

Now, maybe that dedication actually got much better senior year - I have no doubt that likely happened - but it's total fiction to act like it suddenly started junior year.

Also, unlike Hayes, Sims played in nearly every game for the four years he was on the team:

Sims (Freshman): 30 games / 9.17 mpg / 40.4 FG% / 90.5 OR
Sims (Sophomore): 28 games / 6.79 mpg / 50.0 FG% / 83.8 OR
Sims (Junior): 32 games / 14.03 mpg / 57.8 FG% / 99.8 OR
Sims (Senior): 33 games / 27.52 mpg / 46.2 FG% / 101.3 OR

So yes, it's revisionist history to claim that he suddenly got better his senior year.