BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 7, 2016 15:20:59 GMT -5
Two honest questions and I am sure this has been discussed before...
What is the logic with the zone defense out of an inbound on the baseline? Beyond the obvious of just giving the other team a new wrinkle, I just don't get it. Maybe at one time it surprised some teams, but any scouting by the opponent would eliminate that at this point, it's clearly not based on the current status of the game or flow since we do it every single time. It almost feels like a gimmick at this point to me. Anyone?
Second, why do we seem to struggle so poorly on inbounding, especially on the offensive end? It's almost maddening and seems like it should be simple scheme they could improve on. I remember a couple of years ago we seemed to have a very effective inbound play that started with a screen at the top of the key and having someone cut down the lane and it lead to several easy buckets, which this team could desperately use. Shouldn't this be a simple fix? I am not blaming JT3 or players, not asking for that, I just don't get it.
These are 2 areas that drive me nuts each game...
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Jan 7, 2016 15:28:06 GMT -5
Two honest questions and I am sure this has been discussed before... What is the logic with the zone defense out of an inbound on the baseline? Beyond the obvious of just giving the other team a new wrinkle, I just don't get it. Maybe at one time it surprised some teams, but any scouting by the opponent would eliminate that at this point, it's clearly not based on the current status of the game or flow since we do it every single time. It almost feels like a gimmick at this point to me. Anyone?
Second, why do we seem to struggle so poorly on inbounding, especially on the offensive end? It's almost maddening and seems like it should be simple scheme they could improve on. I remember a couple of years ago we seemed to have a very effective inbound play that started with a screen at the top of the key and having someone cut down the lane and it lead to several easy buckets, which this team could desperately use. Shouldn't this be a simple fix? I am not blaming JT3 or players, not asking for that, I just don't get it. These are 2 areas that drive me nuts each game... Coaching adjustments and or practice with the team, I honestly can't any other way to slice it. |
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Jan 7, 2016 15:30:07 GMT -5
Sorry Admin, meant to post in main forum.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 7, 2016 16:00:41 GMT -5
As far as the inbounding is concerned, we don't have many good passers on the team. Inbounding under pressure requires a certain amount of passing skill. When Reggie Cameron is our main inbounder, I'm thrilled to have them just get the ball in play successfully within 5 seconds without turning it over. I don't think the personnel on this team (without Paul White) is really cut out to be trying to use the inbound as a way to generate offense. It would be nice, but I'm not sure it's realistic right now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2016 16:01:27 GMT -5
Two honest questions and I am sure this has been discussed before... What is the logic with the zone defense out of an inbound on the baseline? Beyond the obvious of just giving the other team a new wrinkle, I just don't get it. Maybe at one time it surprised some teams, but any scouting by the opponent would eliminate that at this point, it's clearly not based on the current status of the game or flow since we do it every single time. It almost feels like a gimmick at this point to me. Anyone?
Second, why do we seem to struggle so poorly on inbounding, especially on the offensive end? It's almost maddening and seems like it should be simple scheme they could improve on. I remember a couple of years ago we seemed to have a very effective inbound play that started with a screen at the top of the key and having someone cut down the lane and it lead to several easy buckets, which this team could desperately use. Shouldn't this be a simple fix? I am not blaming JT3 or players, not asking for that, I just don't get it. These are 2 areas that drive me nuts each game... Proximity to the basket 1 pass can equal a layup so a lot of coaches elect to go zone so you protect the basket first.. The 2nd question is an example of one of those quick hitters the zone is meant to stop. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 7, 2016 17:01:08 GMT -5
As far as the inbounding is concerned, we don't have many good passers on the team. Inbounding under pressure requires a certain amount of passing skill. When Reggie Cameron is our main inbounder, I'm thrilled to have them just get the ball in play successfully within 5 seconds without turning it over. I don't think the personnel on this team (without Paul White) is really cut out to be trying to use the inbound as a way to generate offense. It would be nice, but I'm not sure it's realistic right now. Inbounding the ball has been a problem for many years. It's certainly not specific to this team or this personnel. I agree that it's infuriating |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 7, 2016 17:17:37 GMT -5
Inbounding has to do with lack of really quick guards who can go get the ball.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 7, 2016 17:26:23 GMT -5
As far as the inbounding is concerned, we don't have many good passers on the team. Inbounding under pressure requires a certain amount of passing skill. When Reggie Cameron is our main inbounder, I'm thrilled to have them just get the ball in play successfully within 5 seconds without turning it over. I don't think the personnel on this team (without Paul White) is really cut out to be trying to use the inbound as a way to generate offense. It would be nice, but I'm not sure it's realistic right now. Inbounding the ball has been a problem for many years. It's certainly not specific to this team or this personnel. I agree that it's infuriating I agree, for the majority of JTIII's tenure, our inbounding plays have left much to be desired. But as the OP pointed out, in years past we've at least TRIED at times to get someone going to the basket for an easy 2. This year it seems like we have all we can do to just get the ball in successfully. We run that same action where one guy starts on the low block and just runs toward the sideline and that's the primary option (which doesn't really make much sense. Why are you purposely running yourself into another defender, i.e. the sideline/baseline/corner?) and if that isn't there we usually chuck it into the backcourt. |
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 7, 2016 17:36:31 GMT -5
Inbounding has to do with lack of really quick guards who can go get the ball. So how about we try to utilize some of our explosive leapers and throw it up toward the rim for them? We certainly have at least a few guys who can elevate. Or get our centers going to the hoop and throw it high to them for an easy lay in? Either way, I go back to my original point that I don't really think we have the passing acumen to be successful on plays like that. Unless of course you change your entire philosophy and have DSR taking the ball out underneath because he can probably throw a sufficient pass toward the rim, but I think for a number of reasons you'd rather have him out on the court. Again, I think Paul White would make a huge difference on this front - tall guy with good vision and passing ability. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 7, 2016 18:13:34 GMT -5
As someone else said, zone is more effective in stopping screen plays off under the basket inbounds. Those screen plays -- exactly the play in your item #2, is more or less nullified by a zone but it can be hard to stop in man to man. So that's why we run zone almost all of the time.
As for why we don't get a lot of opportunities there -- we actually did execute that same play we ran all the time, either versus Creighton or Marquette, but Kaleb lost the handle and it ended in a turnover. But we run it successfully less, because people scouted us and now often run zone of out the dead ball as well.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 7, 2016 18:48:37 GMT -5
On the other end, I miss having the inbounder pass the ball off of the back of our defender for an easy hoop. That was a classic with Lubick and Smith.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 7, 2016 18:55:16 GMT -5
On the other end, I miss having the inbounder pass the ball off of the back of our defender for an easy hoop. That was a classic with Lubick and Smith. I don't! Man, I hated it when that happened.  |
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 7, 2016 22:11:14 GMT -5
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 7, 2016 23:28:07 GMT -5
And that's why you play a zone! I agree that this year in particular our OOB offense has been poor. We don't see a lot of man D ourselves but we have been unimaginative against the zone. Just set a pick on one of the baseline defenders or overload the strong side and you at least inbound without a turnover. It doesn't make sense to me because there aren't that many options against a zone....usually they involve the defense not accounting for the inbounder, who overloads one side after a pass or two. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 8, 2016 15:17:29 GMT -5
Two honest questions and I am sure this has been discussed before... What is the logic with the zone defense out of an inbound on the baseline? Beyond the obvious of just giving the other team a new wrinkle, I just don't get it. Maybe at one time it surprised some teams, but any scouting by the opponent would eliminate that at this point, it's clearly not based on the current status of the game or flow since we do it every single time. It almost feels like a gimmick at this point to me. Anyone?
Second, why do we seem to struggle so poorly on inbounding, especially on the offensive end? It's almost maddening and seems like it should be simple scheme they could improve on. I remember a couple of years ago we seemed to have a very effective inbound play that started with a screen at the top of the key and having someone cut down the lane and it lead to several easy buckets, which this team could desperately use. Shouldn't this be a simple fix? I am not blaming JT3 or players, not asking for that, I just don't get it. These are 2 areas that drive me nuts each game... Getting a layup when inbounding under your own basket against man-to-man is literally the easiest play in basketball. All it takes is one screen and either the cutter or the screener will have a layup. We got those screen & cut layups when opponents were stupid enough to play straight man when we inbounded under our basket. |
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Loyal Hoya
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Post by Loyal Hoya on Jan 9, 2016 12:03:29 GMT -5
As the spouse of a Spartan, I have to say that offense and defense from the out of bounds are the least of what separates our programs. MSU plays zone D in those situations just like we do, and their fans ask why the opposing teams always bounces the ball off the butt of the center or forwards and that never happens to any other team. (Seriously!) The play to DD ( that's Deyonte Davis for the uninitiated) was a great one, but MSU just as often goes for the conservative play to the guard at half court and even turns it over sometimes (I can hear my wife yelling, "why did he have Kenny Goins inbounding it???!!!" now).
Now, if you want to talk about defending with your feet (and without fouling) or rebounding or getting points from the 4 position down low, there might be some true contrasts. Any interesting comparison is that Day Day (Draymond Green) and Zel (Denzel Valentine) were under recruited point forwards in the mold of Jeff Green.
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