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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 4, 2016 0:22:57 GMT -5
To actually respond to a substantive point, I think the problem on the PNR with DSR isn't really that he (like Peak) makes up his mind too quickly (although I'm sure that happens some). Instead, I think the problems are (1) he doesn't have the quickness to attack downhill and get an uncontested blow by and he has a hard time making contested layups. So he isn't inclined to attack off the pick. And without the attack, the D has time to recover. (I think that's why he refuses the pick a lot.) (2). The guys we have rolling can't finish worth a darn. It's why I've wanted someone other than the five setting the pick for him. If he can't blow by the five, you may as well make it four so that Ike or Marcus can roll and finish (or pop). I mean if you're DSR, you have to be thinking that a bounce pass to Bradley that he catches ten feet from the basket isn't an ironclad option. One answer is his mid-range jumper. If he makes it, the D has to commit more. It seems, thkugh, that he is very hesitant to take it at least early in games or early in shot clocks. Probably because its been drilled in that semk-contested eighteen footers are as bad as it gets. The problem is that it's the best way to open up the PNR for him, given his physical attributes. Is #2 settled? I mean, I've seen both Hayes and Govan blow this play (and Hayes does later in the game). But I've also seen them finish as well. They certain don't finish like Tyson Chandler, and Hayes has no real pick and pop ability, but I feel like they are both something more like 2-5 than 10-25 from a sample size. I suppose DSR has seen them in practice, but it is SO open I just wonder if you don't give them the chance to prove they can or can't finish. Especially when the cross court pass is to Kaleb and not a shooter. They haven't really tried to pop with either of them. Jesse clearly can make it. And Brad took a confident fifteen footer yesterday (not thst i want to see a ton of that, but if you do it once or twice.it reaoly opens the lane).
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Jan 4, 2016 0:31:54 GMT -5
Plenty of people will read it. Plenty may not. But I sincerely hope it's not because they can't read 700 words. It's not about the word count friend. SF's post is appreciated because so many simple-minded anti-III posters said we stopped scoring because the coach had them hold the ball to the end of the shot clock, and SF disproved that contention possession by possession. What I don't want to read are your dozen or so posts in this thread saying the same thing over and over. Brevity is not brevity if you don't shut up at some point.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 4, 2016 0:36:17 GMT -5
It's not about the word count friend. SF's post is appreciated because so many simple-minded anti-III posters said we stopped scoring because the coach had them hold the ball to the end of the shot clock, and SF disproved that contention possession by possession. What I don't want to read are your dozen or so posts in this thread saying the same thing over and over. Brevity is not brevity if you don't shut up at some point. Maybe you can point me to that?
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
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Post by kchoya on Jan 4, 2016 0:49:16 GMT -5
Who could even read these posts? brevity is a great charm of eloquence. In the three hours since this thread was started, you've made FIFTEEN! posts about a post you clearly think as unnecessary/excessive. Man, I thought I had the "Hoyatalk annoying d-bag poster" award all locked up, but I think you've stolen it from me. FIFTEEN! You were saying something about brevity?
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jan 4, 2016 1:22:44 GMT -5
Who could even read these posts? brevity is a great charm of eloquence. In the three hours since this thread was started, you've made FIFTEEN! posts about a post you clearly think as unnecessary/excessive. Man, I thought I had the "Hoyatalk annoying d-bag poster" award all locked up, but I think you've stolen it from me. FIFTEEN! You were saying something about brevity? To reach your 9,090 garbage posts that shows your insecurity in your RL, I think he has a loooooooooooooooooooong way to go
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canissaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 524
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Post by canissaxa on Jan 4, 2016 1:32:20 GMT -5
I appreciated the effort, analysis and fact-based information provided in the original post. Enough to suffer through. Thanks, SF!
Also think it's funny that the board members' whose hot takes have been resoundingly dismantled here and elsewhere have retreated from actually debating the facts to debating the presentation.
Last point, advance apologies for failing to reply to any response to this. Pretty much all the noise on this thread is already on my block list.
Feel free to console yourself with the last word. I'll go ahead and assume it'll be brief, charming, and eloquent. Consider me crushed.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,781
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 4, 2016 1:33:02 GMT -5
Wow. Glad I was out tonight, and didn't see this thread until now.
Maybe I'm different than others on this board, but if I see a post that I think is too long, or otherwise just not at my level of interest, I do something about it. I choose to find another thread to read and in which to participate. I don't spend innumerable posts criticizing the thread and its content.
Question for eagle54: Do you find my Games of Interest thread tiresome, because it is too long? It's more than the 700 words posted at this start of this thread, and I don't think I can encapsulate the schedule in a nice, neat sentence or two. Unless you simply want me to post "Everyone is playing two or three games this week. Most of them are on an ESPN Network, and our games are on Fox Sports 1." That will save me plenty of time, and apparently satisfy your attention span.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,781
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 4, 2016 2:04:35 GMT -5
Who could even read these posts? brevity is a great charm of eloquence. In the three hours since this thread was started, you've made FIFTEEN! posts about a post you clearly think as unnecessary/excessive. Man, I thought I had the "Hoyatalk annoying d-bag poster" award all locked up, but I think you've stolen it from me. FIFTEEN! You were saying something about brevity? Don't worry, kc. I think you won the Lifetime Achievement Award in this category.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,717
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 4, 2016 6:15:40 GMT -5
The board has moderators to weed out inappropriate posts. How about sticking to substantive basketball topic discussion rather than repetitive petty posts attacking other board participants? It lowers the level of discussion here and I guarantee people don't come here to read that useless crap.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Jan 4, 2016 10:00:01 GMT -5
I also enjoy these kinds of posts and appreciate the time and effort that goes into them. The games happen so fast and I usually don't dvr so I don't mind revisiting these kinds of scenarios in word form.
I don't always agree with SF's opinions but I do respect the time he puts in to actually making substantive posts here. It makes it easier to ignore the ever increasing amount of dbags around here these days.
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b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
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Post by b52legend on Jan 4, 2016 10:29:06 GMT -5
Personally, I like it. Because I think it has value and, eventually, I try to re-watch every game so I like having the perspective of others when I do. That's fair but I don't think this board is doing that so I think too much for the masses. Maybe someone can start a thread for breaking every play down in detail that others can skip. I can't tell if eagle54 is trolling or not... This is a message board, not the Washington Post. I learned a valuable lesson at Georgetown that you can employ when doing your meticulous review of everything posted -- skimming. Seems ridiculous to criticize another poster for their composition.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 4, 2016 10:45:42 GMT -5
Pretty outrageous to use Hoyatalk as a forum to discuss Georgetown basketball in detail, SF...
On the actual substance of the post, one thing that jumps out at me is...no attempts from DSR. He was obviously in distribution mode for most of the game and I liked it for the most part. He has kind of fallen in love with the drive behind the hoop and kick to the corner for a three move, which is a nice play if you have a good shooter in the corner. Would like to see him use his funky little pullup fade away move a bit more. Or just a standard dribble handoff for the three point look. When things get stagnant, sometimes the simple play is the best one and that can mean having your best offensive player shoot it.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 4, 2016 10:55:01 GMT -5
Our adjusted tempo is 210th in the nation. That's nothing new for JTIII led Georgetown teams, but I for one with this particular group of players would like to see that number cut in half. In half court sets we are not very good with entry passes (see Copeland above), we dont hit many backdoor cuts, and many of our players are not good finishers on drives to the basket.
All that being said, in my opinion it's the defense and rebounding that really need to improve more first (and can improve) so we can be in the upper tier of the Big East competing with Villanova and Xavier.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 4, 2016 11:17:12 GMT -5
Our adjusted tempo is 210th in the nation. That's nothing new for JTIII led Georgetown teams, but I for one with this particular group of players would like to see that number cut in half. In half court sets we are not very good with entry passes (see Copeland above), we dont hit many backdoor cuts, and many of our players are not good finishers on drives to the basket. All that being said, in my opinion it's the defense and rebounding that really need to improve more first (and can improve) so we can be in the upper tier of the Big East competing with Villanova and Xavier. While I would have no problem with a faster tempo, this is one of the faster JT3 coached teams. Our adjusted tempo over the years: 2005: 322 2006: 329 2007: 328 (Final Four) 2008: 316 2009: 285 2010: 188 2011: 259 2012: 300 2013: 301 2014: 259 2015: 210 Basically, this is the fastest tempo we've had aside from the 2010 team (which was also one of the most efficient offenses we have had). I definitely think that the makeup of this team allows for faster play. Still, I think the reason the first half tempo seemed higher is because we were so efficient at getting open looks. In the second half, when we stagnated, those looks disappeared. That's not necessarily a bad thing - if you're using the extra time to get a better shot. But, if you're just standing around or making useless passes, it's not a good thing.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 4, 2016 11:25:17 GMT -5
Even if we were at 110th in tempo, that's just two extra possessions per game. So one per half. I'm not sure how big a difference it really makes, honestly.
What I care about more is the tempo of our offense in terms of whether the ball is moving and we're active. If it takes 26 seconds to get the look that we want, that's fine, but we have to be playing offense for those 26 seconds, not throwing soft, lazy passes around the perimeter. That was what really jumped out when we were playing very efficiently in the first half versus the second. When you watch the best NBA teams - the Warriors or the Spurs - it's incredible how quickly and precisely the ball moves on EVERY possession. Obviously we can't do that, but we can get better.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,607
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Post by guru on Jan 4, 2016 11:28:46 GMT -5
Who could even read these posts? brevity is a great charm of eloquence. In the three hours since this thread was started, you've made FIFTEEN! posts about a post you clearly think as unnecessary/excessive. Man, I thought I had the "Hoyatalk annoying d-bag poster" award all locked up, but I think you've stolen it from me. FIFTEEN! You were saying something about brevity? Are you really ripping someone else about their number of utterly empty, pointless posts? Hey Pot, have you met Kettle? You'll love him!
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 4, 2016 12:53:28 GMT -5
Even if we were at 110th in tempo, that's just two extra possessions per game. So one per half. I'm not sure how big a difference it really makes, honestly. What I care about more is the tempo of our offense in terms of whether the ball is moving and we're active. If it takes 26 seconds to get the look that we want, that's fine, but we have to be playing offense for those 26 seconds, not throwing soft, lazy passes around the perimeter. That was what really jumped out when we were playing very efficiently in the first half versus the second. When you watch the best NBA teams - the Warriors or the Spurs - it's incredible how quickly and precisely the ball moves on EVERY possession. Obviously we can't do that, but we can get better. 2 extra possessions a game is a lot! I expect many of our BE games will come down to final possession or two, so 2 more possessions can be critical. If we were getting good looks after 26 secs I would agree with you. But we aren't and I think we do better when we push the pace. There are other examples but the first 6 or 7 mins of the Maryland game jumps to mind as one good example if my memory is right.
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Post by practice on Jan 4, 2016 13:02:22 GMT -5
This team should definitely push the pace! There's too much talent on this team to pass the ball around the perimeter for 20-25 seconds every possession. I understand that we are looking for cutters for easy baskets, but the result is a passive offense. These guys need to be more aggressive shooting, more aggressive rebounding and more aggressive on D. They looked great for stretches on Saturday. I'm not saying we need to be Hank Gathers and Loyola but we also don't need to be the 1989 Princeton team. Golden State basically runs our offense and it doesn't look stagnate. Shooters gotta shoot, slashers gotta slash and the big boys need to bang!
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 4, 2016 13:15:12 GMT -5
I'm not saying we should take 26 seconds to shoot the ball, and I don't JT3 does either. I always hear him preaching that if you have a good look with 22 seconds on the shot clock, take it. But if you don't, keep the ball moving. I think when the offense bogs down it's guys taking too long to figure out if they have a good look before doing something with it, which gives the defense a chance to recover and erases any good passing that you did prior to stopping the ball. As you said, GSW runs a lot of similar sets to what we do, but the ball moves SOOOO fast with them and defenses are getting constantly stretched to cover a shooter until they break and they get an open look at three or a dump down shot in the paint. You can't recreate what they do without having Steph, Klay, and Draymond, but there's so much there to emulate.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 4, 2016 13:19:49 GMT -5
This team should definitely push the pace! There's too much talent on this team to pass the ball around the perimeter for 20-25 seconds every possession. I understand that we are looking for cutters for easy baskets, but the result is a passive offense. I counted 3 backdoors the whole game: 2 were made FGs and the other was a TO on the pass. Yes, it looks beautiful when it works. But, my question is how much practice time is used in the pre-season and during the season to learn the Princeton system/get on the same page as your teammates vs. how many times it is used in games? Is it cost effective? Add to that that we have seen how other BE teams just pack the lanes vs. GU and we end up trying to find what's not going to be there, plus our players stop moving.
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