HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 29, 2015 15:01:27 GMT -5
It seems to me that a primary difference between the JT III “apologists” and the “JT III must go” group is that the former focus on the program’s wins while the latter focus on post season losses. To establish a baseline for the discussion – and to confirm that what I thought had been very strong regular season performances on the part of the Hoyas – I conducted a numerical evaluation of all NCAA tournament teams for the 10 year period 2006-2015 to see how the NCAA selection committee viewed the regular season and conference tournament performance of all major college programs. Specifically, I ascribed points to each program for each seed for each year – a number 1 seed being worth 16 points and a number 16 seed being worth 1 point. A perfect score – i.e. all #1 seeds - would be 160 points. The results for the top 25 programs were instructive.
Kansas 152
Duke 149
UNC 126
Wisconsin 124
Ohio State 119
Michigan State 118
Louisville 117
Gonzaga 109
GEORGETOWN 107
Villanova 105
Pittsburgh 102
Syracuse 99
Texas 97
UCLA 97
Memphis 96
Kentucky 94
Florida 92
Marquette 86
Arizona 84
Xavier 83
Notre Dame 83
UConn 77
Tennessee 75
Butler 73
Purdue 73
Some programs like Memphis did better in the early part of the period, while Kentucky was much stronger in the latter part. I was slightly surprised to see how consistent that the Hoyas had been, with 54 points in the first five year period and 53 in the back half.
I think the results speak for themselves.
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aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 341
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Post by aristides on Dec 29, 2015 15:06:36 GMT -5
This should end the argument. :-P
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 29, 2015 15:16:55 GMT -5
Maybe this just demonstrates that we've been consistently overseeded for the past decade?
(ducks and runs)
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 29, 2015 15:18:45 GMT -5
Maybe this just demonstrates that we've been consistently overseeded for the past decade? (ducks and runs) If that is true, then we should be less disappointed with the "upsets." |
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DanMcQ
Moderator 
Posts: 30,553
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 29, 2015 15:23:56 GMT -5
But, does accounting measure chemistry?  |
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 29, 2015 15:26:36 GMT -5
But, does accounting measure chemistry? This is neither chemistry nor accounting. My motto is, "Never be an accountant, you can always hire one." |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,904
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 29, 2015 15:35:37 GMT -5
It seems to me that a primary difference between the JT III “apologists” and the “JT III must go” group is that the former focus on the program’s wins while the latter focus on post season losses. To establish a baseline for the discussion – and to confirm that what I thought had been very strong regular season performances on the part of the Hoyas – I conducted a numerical evaluation of all NCAA tournament teams for the 10 year period 2006-2015 to see how the NCAA selection committee viewed the regular season and conference tournament performance of all major college programs. Specifically, I ascribed points to each program for each seed for each year – a number 1 seed being worth 16 points and a number 16 seed being worth 1 point. A perfect score – i.e. all #1 seeds - would be 160 points. The results for the top 25 programs were instructive. Kansas 152 Duke 149 UNC 126 Wisconsin 124 Ohio State 119 Michigan State 118 Louisville 117 Gonzaga 109 GEORGETOWN 107 Villanova 105 Pittsburgh 102 Syracuse 99 Texas 97 UCLA 97 Memphis 96 Kentucky 94 Florida 92 Marquette 86 Arizona 84 Xavier 83 Notre Dame 83 UConn 77 Tennessee 75 Butler 73 Purdue 73 Some programs like Memphis did better in the early part of the period, while Kentucky was much stronger in the latter part. I was slightly surprised to see how consistent that the Hoyas had been, with 54 points in the first five year period and 53 in the back half. I think the results speak for themselves. ** For the record, I have no dog in this fight.. Although I do feel it's crazy to completely minimize the regular season** Here's the other side of the coin though.. Tourney Wins since 2006 Kansas 24 Duke 20 UNC 24 Wisconsin 18 Ohio State 18 Michigan State 23 Louisville 22 Gonzaga 12 GEORGETOWN 9 Villanova 12 Pittsburgh 10 Syracuse 13 Texas 10 UCLA 19 Memphis 15(Calipari years) Kentucky 24 Florida 25 Marquette 9 Arizona 14 Xavier 12 Notre Dame 5UConn 19 Tennessee 11 Butler 15 Purdue 8I bolded the schools G'town finishes ahead of.. |
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Dec 29, 2015 15:40:52 GMT -5
It seems to me that a primary difference between the JT III “apologists” and the “JT III must go” group is that the former focus on the program’s wins while the latter focus on post season losses. To establish a baseline for the discussion – and to confirm that what I thought had been very strong regular season performances on the part of the Hoyas – I conducted a numerical evaluation of all NCAA tournament teams for the 10 year period 2006-2015 to see how the NCAA selection committee viewed the regular season and conference tournament performance of all major college programs. Specifically, I ascribed points to each program for each seed for each year – a number 1 seed being worth 16 points and a number 16 seed being worth 1 point. A perfect score – i.e. all #1 seeds - would be 160 points. The results for the top 25 programs were instructive. Kansas 152 Duke 149 UNC 126 Wisconsin 124 Ohio State 119 Michigan State 118 Louisville 117 Gonzaga 109 GEORGETOWN 107 Villanova 105 Pittsburgh 102 Syracuse 99 Texas 97 UCLA 97 Memphis 96 Kentucky 94 Florida 92 Marquette 86 Arizona 84 Xavier 83 Notre Dame 83 UConn 77 Tennessee 75 Butler 73 Purdue 73 Some programs like Memphis did better in the early part of the period, while Kentucky was much stronger in the latter part. I was slightly surprised to see how consistent that the Hoyas had been, with 54 points in the first five year period and 53 in the back half. I think the results speak for themselves. ** For the record, I have no dog in this fight.. Although I do feel it's crazy to completely minimize the regular season** Here's the other side of the coin though.. Tourney Wins since 2006 Kansas 24 Duke 20 UNC 24 Wisconsin 18 Ohio State 18 Michigan State 23 Louisville 22 Gonzaga 12 GEORGETOWN 9 Villanova 12 Pittsburgh 10 Syracuse 13 Texas 10 UCLA 19 Memphis 15(Calipari years) Kentucky 24 Florida 25 Marquette 9 Arizona 14 Xavier 12 Notre Dame 5UConn 19 Tennessee 11 Butler 15 Purdue 8I bolded the schools G'town finishes ahead of.. I have not checked on the other schools... But when you change the date to since 2008, Gtown drops from 9 to 3. |
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
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Post by kchoya on Dec 29, 2015 15:48:27 GMT -5
** For the record, I have no dog in this fight.. Although I do feel it's crazy to completely minimize the regular season** Here's the other side of the coin though.. Tourney Wins since 2006 Kansas 24 Duke 20 UNC 24 Wisconsin 18 Ohio State 18 Michigan State 23 Louisville 22 Gonzaga 12 GEORGETOWN 9 Villanova 12 Pittsburgh 10 Syracuse 13 Texas 10 UCLA 19 Memphis 15(Calipari years) Kentucky 24 Florida 25 Marquette 9 Arizona 14 Xavier 12 Notre Dame 5UConn 19 Tennessee 11 Butler 15 Purdue 8I bolded the schools G'town finishes ahead of.. I have not checked on the other schools... But when you change the date to since 2008, Gtown drops from 9 to 3. And if you change the date to April 15, 2015, it drops to zero! JT3 must go! |
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Dec 29, 2015 16:22:38 GMT -5
Folks are missing the forest for the trees. Look at those schools we are bunched with. Almost all are at least twice as big as us, have much better bball facilities, lower academic standards (and/or jock majors), and have flirted with or been convicted of NCAA violations. I could name 100 schools our size, with similar academic standards and facilities that would kill to be in this company. BTW where are the terps?
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 29, 2015 16:24:23 GMT -5
But, does accounting measure chemistry? This is neither chemistry nor accounting. My motto is, "Never be an accountant, you can always hire one." A useful motto. I assume you have a corollary about lawyers?  |
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Post by practice on Dec 29, 2015 16:29:53 GMT -5
Can you run the numbers with players that JT3 failed to successfully recruit and also with a different coaching staff?
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 29, 2015 16:33:07 GMT -5
Welp, I've seen enough. Time to join the Patriot League (if they'll even have us.)
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Dec 29, 2015 16:33:33 GMT -5
i think these numbers confirm what any reasonable Hoya fan would want - we are a Top 25 level program - anything beyond that with our level of facilities, scholarship, etc. is gravy.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 29, 2015 16:39:37 GMT -5
But, does accounting measure chemistry? This is neither chemistry nor accounting. My motto is, "Never be an accountant, you can always hire one." And subjectivity is objective. |
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 29, 2015 16:53:06 GMT -5
This is neither chemistry nor accounting. My motto is, "Never be an accountant, you can always hire one." A useful motto. I assume you have a corollary about lawyers? I take my lead from Shakespeare with regard to lawyers. |
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 29, 2015 17:03:24 GMT -5
A useful motto. I assume you have a corollary about lawyers? I take my lead from Shakespeare with regard to lawyers. Tough, but fair. |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,904
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 29, 2015 17:06:29 GMT -5
Folks are missing the forest for the trees. Look at those schools we are bunched with. Almost all are at least twice as big as us, have much better bball facilities, lower academic standards (and/or jock majors), and have flirted with or been convicted of NCAA violations. I could name 100 schools our size, with similar academic standards and facilities that would kill to be in this company. BTW where are the terps? But some of the trees in front of G'town on this list are Gonzaga, Villanova, Butler & Xavier.. Marquette is tied in wins with G'town despite the fact they haven't made the tourney the last 2 seasons and lost in the 1st round in 2006 & 2007.. I get that it's better to be G'town than Seton Hall or St. John's or DePaul or Wake Forest or Vandy ect.. But isn't that a defeatist way to look at it? Forget about the Big 5 schools or blue bloods, just be the best in the Big East.. I don't think It's unreasonable for G'town to be the best program in the BE both regular & postseason wise.. If they become that program then all of the rewards will follow.. |
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HoyaChris
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,408
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Post by HoyaChris on Dec 30, 2015 11:57:25 GMT -5
Folks are missing the forest for the trees. Look at those schools we are bunched with. Almost all are at least twice as big as us, have much better bball facilities, lower academic standards (and/or jock majors), and have flirted with or been convicted of NCAA violations. I could name 100 schools our size, with similar academic standards and facilities that would kill to be in this company. BTW where are the terps? Maryland is tied for 47th with 46 seeding points. |
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900 
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Dec 30, 2015 12:27:50 GMT -5
It's nice and all to look back over the last decade but as for the here and now JTIII gets a D. Just too much talent and depth to be struggling this badly. Defense can be taught. Not jacking up 21 3s against our last opponent can be corrected. Improvements can and must be made. Season is significantly damaged but certainly not lost, should be interesting to watch how we do tonight.
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