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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 15, 2015 23:09:22 GMT -5
This outcome against this type of team was pretty predictable. I think many of us were hoping that it wouldn't happen, as maybe the Radford loss served as a wake-up call. Oh well... I am not really worked up over this loss, moreso just kind of depressed that we have another team that just seems to have no fire. I was going to say that maybe we should just face facts that we don't have a very good team at this point in the season, but that is belied by the Maryland, Duke and Cuse games. Frustrating that there are so many talented players on this team but they are simply underperforming. I just don't get it. Syracuse is not really very good. We have 2 wins against very mediocre high major teams. 2 close losses - but losses - against very good high major teams. And 2 losses against decent mid-major teams. That paints us as a mediocre team. A third of the way through the season. We will see if the staff can coach this team into a strong competitor - or whether we have sorely overestimated what we have.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 15, 2015 23:11:37 GMT -5
Final Thoughts:
1. Monmouth 42 rebs vs Gtown 33 rebs, issue becomes glaring during losses
2. The Radford loss did not appear that bad as the game went to 2 OT's before the Hoyas loss. Tonight Monmouth came in and took the Hoyas lunch money from start to finish and this game felt like an NCAA game
3. Time outs were sporadically used, but were not used to stop the Monmouth runs.
4. There will be some soul searching after this loss, I expect JTIII to make some starting roster adjustment and rotation adjustments. Someone will pay for this loss, it is just a matter of who losses/gains pt after this.
Final Grade: F
A team can lose, but you do not want to be getting dominated at home by double-digits on national t.v. (this game for Monmouth was never in doubt) At some points of the game several of the Monmouth Hawks looke like they could play for Georgetown and start for the Hoyas too. With this loss hopefully down the road there will be better in game coaching decisions as Monmouth appeared to have scouted the Hoyas very well, knew the teams tendencies and exploited the weaknesses. Rarely does Georgetown come back to win games once they are down by double digits and tonight was no different.
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Dec 15, 2015 23:12:44 GMT -5
We will move on behind this lost but I have one question to ask before we do, why did we wait so late into the game before we started playing with the intensity that we played with in the final 4 minutes? I believe we had a couple of good stops in the second half prior to the 4 min mark that could have been the start of a good come back if the ball would've fell. IMO, we started too late in the game to mount that sort of attack. We already had the foul advantage with there big man fouling out, so why so late? We are a deep team with fouls to give and by giving up fouls we extended the clock. But before anyone mentions the fact that they were perfect from the FT line, Monmouth started missing FT down the stretch. I guess my point is, if we play at that high level we won't find ourselves trying to come back at the end or trying to hold off in the final minutes. Furthermore, that level of play is going to get us deep into March. I ran track in school and there is nothing more disappointing then losing on a full tank, it should never happen!
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Dec 15, 2015 23:13:02 GMT -5
This outcome against this type of team was pretty predictable. I think many of us were hoping that it wouldn't happen, as maybe the Radford loss served as a wake-up call. Oh well... I am not really worked up over this loss, moreso just kind of depressed that we have another team that just seems to have no fire. I was going to say that maybe we should just face facts that we don't have a very good team at this point in the season, but that is belied by the Maryland, Duke and Cuse games. Frustrating that there are so many talented players on this team but they are simply underperforming. I just don't get it. Syracuse is not really very good. We have 2 wins against very mediocre high major teams. 2 close losses - but losses - against very good high makjor teams. And 2 losses voagainst decent mid-major teams. That paints us as a mediocre team. A third of the way through the season. We will see if the staff can coach this team into a strong competitor - or whether we have sorely overestimated what we have. Yes, pretty much this. Let's hope we can find a way to 10-12 big east wins.
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 15, 2015 23:17:49 GMT -5
It's not THAT we lost, it's HOW we lost. Monmouth has several good wins but we played like garbage and there should be no defending of any player or coach not named DSR. Deep, introspective looks from everyone on the team, on the staff, in the administration, in the stands, and watching from home are not uncalled for. Who are we? What have we been? Where are we going? What? Are you suggesting each of us posting on this message board needs to look inward to figure out what's wrong with the Georgetown basketball team? Or are you suggesting that we all ask ourselves "Who are we?" in some sort of cosmic sense, totally disconnected from this basketball game in which none of us personally participated?
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Dec 15, 2015 23:21:24 GMT -5
Good news is they were the top story on SportsCenter at 11. At least the program is getting exposure.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Dec 15, 2015 23:27:45 GMT -5
This outcome against this type of team was pretty predictable. I think many of us were hoping that it wouldn't happen, as maybe the Radford loss served as a wake-up call. Oh well... I am not really worked up over this loss, moreso just kind of depressed that we have another team that just seems to have no fire. I was going to say that maybe we should just face facts that we don't have a very good team at this point in the season, but that is belied by the Maryland, Duke and Cuse games. Frustrating that there are so many talented players on this team but they are simply underperforming. I just don't get it. Syracuse is not really very good. We have 2 wins against very mediocre high major teams. 2 close losses - but losses - against very good high major teams. And 2 losses against decent mid-major teams. That paints us as a mediocre team. A third of the way through the season. We will see if the staff can coach this team into a strong competitor - or whether we have sorely overestimated what we have. I get what you are saying but I have a hard time discounting the UMD and Duke games because they were losses. Perhaps both of those teams are overrated a bit, but the Hoyas looked like a Top 20 team against them. As opposed to the garbage on display tonight.
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Dec 15, 2015 23:27:57 GMT -5
It's not THAT we lost, it's HOW we lost. Monmouth has several good wins but we played like garbage and there should be no defending of any player or coach not named DSR. Deep, introspective looks from everyone on the team, on the staff, in the administration, in the stands, and watching from home are not uncalled for. Who are we? What have we been? Where are we going? Completely agree that everyone involved with this program needs to take a long look in the mirror. What absolutely infuriates me from the coaching staff is that we've had moments like this too often unfortunately. All of the March losses to teams like this, Radford and now Monmouth, but nothing changes from the staff! We run the exact same offense with very slight wrinkles as the adjustments each year. We play the same defense each year. We have the same press breaker each year. We have the same OB plays each year. We only press with a 1-2-1-1 rather than switch that up. Good coaches adapt and change based upon personnel and I just don't see enough of it. Something has to change at some point! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That's what we do when it comes to these inferior teams. I have no doubt we will continue to play well against top tier talent, we almost always have under III. But something in the strategy against inferior teams must change or else this program will never take the next step like we all want
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 15, 2015 23:29:19 GMT -5
Syracuse is not really very good. We have 2 wins against very mediocre high major teams. 2 close losses - but losses - against very good high makjor teams. And 2 losses voagainst decent mid-major teams. That paints us as a mediocre team. A third of the way through the season. We will see if the staff can coach this team into a strong competitor - or whether we have sorely overestimated what we have. Yes, pretty much this. Let's hope we can find a way to 10-12 big east wins. Don't think 10 Big East wins is going to get it done. We're now looking at needing 11+ wins plus at least one in the Big East tourney. Also would be very helpful to beat UCONN.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 15, 2015 23:39:11 GMT -5
It's not THAT we lost, it's HOW we lost. Monmouth has several good wins but we played like garbage and there should be no defending of any player or coach not named DSR. Deep, introspective looks from everyone on the team, on the staff, in the administration, in the stands, and watching from home are not uncalled for. Who are we? What have we been? Where are we going? What? Are you suggesting each of us posting on this message board needs to look inward to figure out what's wrong with the Georgetown basketball team? Or are you suggesting that we all ask ourselves "Who are we?" in some sort of cosmic sense, totally disconnected from this basketball game in which none of us personally participated? I don't see why it has to be either/or.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 15, 2015 23:43:01 GMT -5
Yes, pretty much this. Let's hope we can find a way to 10-12 big east wins. Don't think 10 Big East wins is going to get it done. We're now looking at needing 11+ wins plus at least one in the Big East tourney. Also would be very helpful to beat UCONN. Beating UConn will be tough but not impossible. The Hoyas have comparable talent, but you have give the coaching edge to Kevin Ollie (1 NC).
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 15, 2015 23:44:15 GMT -5
After a few of the most uninspired and lethargic performances I can recall by a Hoya team in years, it is hard to decide how to explain this team. At this point it seems that Hoya fans have been ignoring obvious flaws and reading the hype. Beating an average Wisconsin and an equally flawed Syracuse were overvalued while losing to Radford and nearly blowing the game against UNCW were too easily dismissed.
The coaching staff has major challenges ahead and very little time to accomplish these: figuring out how and when to use Hayes; finding some combination of players who value rebounding; utilizing the bench properly to counter the inconsistent play of many players on this team so that no one is allowed to disappear on the floor for any length of time; getting White and Tre back into some semblance of a groove; placing a premium on FT shooting so that Hoya fans no longer hold their breath every time certain players are fouled late in games; and developing a strategy for defending the perimeter against teams with strong and quick outside shooters. Lots to do and little time to get it done. Finally, while what the coaches can accomplish is limited by talent, this is not an excuse. This team is talented. However, talent must still be coached. Players can improve their FT shooting. Players can be taught to box out. Right now this team is closer to the bottom of the Big East than the top and it is more to do with lack of discipline, lack of composure and unfortunately a lack of intensity on a consistent basis.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 16, 2015 0:14:54 GMT -5
It seemed clear pretty right from the opening tip that Monmouth was the significantly better team tonight. We just could not defend them at all - when that skinny Stewart kid started dropping 3s off the bench, that was pretty much the end of the night for the Hoyas.
One note - I think losing Agau has quietly been one of the things that has hurt us the most this year. Agau was perhaps our best all around player in Kenner league. And there has been some sense that he was pushing for a starting position before his injury. Agau is a really good defender. He would have defended ball screens far better than any of our other 4/5's, and that would make a big difference defensively. Offensively he is a classic glue guy, who does a lot of little things well. He really seemed to understand offense conceptually - when and where to move off the ball, pass, and attack the basket. he could post up, hit an open jumper, and even take a bigger/slower defender off the dribble.
Don't get me wrong - I don't think Agau was poised to be a star this year. But I do think he was ready to be a 25+ minute a game player who does a lot of the things that have been problems at times this year.
Adding in the injury to white (our other player who does a lot of the kinds of glue guy things that Agau does well) and Tre's illness - and we have some compounding issues. But losing Agau has, I think, kind of quietly been a bigger problem than we probably expected it to be.
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 16, 2015 0:23:09 GMT -5
What? Are you suggesting each of us posting on this message board needs to look inward to figure out what's wrong with the Georgetown basketball team? Or are you suggesting that we all ask ourselves "Who are we?" in some sort of cosmic sense, totally disconnected from this basketball game in which none of us personally participated? I don't see why it has to be either/or. I don't see why rooting for this basketball team requires me to be introspective about my place in the universe. The team is underperforming again in the same ways that it has every year for the last seven years. What is my personal soul searching supposed to accomplish?
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 16, 2015 0:56:01 GMT -5
The most frightening thing about tonight was how obvious it was from the opening tip that Monmouth was the better team. There was never a feeling that Monmouth would allow the Hoyas to get back into the game.
Oh, and the crowd. Yikes. The Monmouth fans were louder than Hoyas fans, at least from the club level.
Just a really disappointing night. Given how strong the top half of the conference is this season, you have to think an NCAA tourney bid is a long shot at this point. Not great Bob.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Dec 16, 2015 1:25:55 GMT -5
I don't see why it has to be either/or. I don't see why rooting for this basketball team requires me to be introspective about my place in the universe. The team is underperforming again in the same ways that it has every year for the last seven years. What is my personal soul searching supposed to accomplish? The universe may be a lot to tackle right now. Let's limit it to... if you've felt JTIII has done as well as can be reasonably expected, is talk of change finally warranted? Conversely, if you've called him a terrible coach who should be replaced, how would you feel IF you find a replacement who consistently makes Sweet 16s and then leaves for a better job? We all know the past failures, are we likely to do much better and, if not, is that acceptable? And really, I'd have just called for the fans to think about the state of the program, but I couldn't help take a dig at everyone who doesn't show up at games vs. the hundreds who do.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 16, 2015 1:35:29 GMT -5
Put me in the group that believes III deliberately scheduled these similar style of play mid-majors. The purpose though I am not sure of. Did he schedule them so that his players could get used to playing them ,so in March they could play better against them, or did he do it so that he could learn how to coach against them. The lost tonight indicates that neither has gotten better. I was a fan of JTII, but recognized that he had coaching faults like the adaption of the Dean Smith four corner stall at end of game when he had a lead. I also thought that given a big game he would have his players ready to play and win against anyone. I also believe that JTIII can devise a game plan that would best most big game opponents. However, when the game plan does not work because of the talent of the opponent or the game plan of the opponent is better, III does not seem to have an alternative plan such as a full court press and trapping defense like JTII. He has recruited athletic forwards for his point forward offense but unfortunately has not been able to recruit a true high level pg that would bring out the best in all of them. I know he was a point forward at Princeton and believes in the system, but in games like today when the team is quicker and can beat the cutter to his intended spot and use the quickness to harass the passer, there has to be an alternative. For most successful coaches there is a pg that can break the defense down and either get his own shot or set his teammates up for open baskets. That pg becomes the coach on the floor and makes his coach look like a genius. DSR is a good player,but his moves to the basket are slow and deliberate. So much so that the other players stop and look as he makes his way to the basket. No fault of the young man, he just is not a quick dribbler nor high leaper such that he can rise up and shoot over defending guards. He is what he is. I lstill believe that if JTIII got to the Final Four with the big boys, Kentucky, Duke!,Kansas, etc., he could devise a plan to beat either of them. The problem is that he probably would not get there because of the failure to get past a team like today in the early rounds. So what now since neither he nor his players have figured out how to beat a team like this. .
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Dec 16, 2015 5:25:48 GMT -5
our guards are terrible defenders (dsr and peak especially). they can't stop anyone off the dribble and the team fouls like crazy. III went to a zone to try to stop it but that was even more of a disaster because it led to wide open 3's and several offensive rebounds. This team is a train wreck defensively and on the boards. The players play with zero emotion unless they are playing a big name team and III seems to coach every game as if it's a preseason exhibition.
i, for one, have not seen the improvement i thought we'd see in the soph class. peak looks completely lost on both ends. copeland is doing ok but he certainly isn't the dominant player we hoped he would be. campbell is the same bench player he was last year and poor paul white can't even get into a game when the guys on the floor are not producing.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 16, 2015 6:37:17 GMT -5
That game had nothing to do with strategy and everything to do with intensity and execution. To me, the issue starts with recruiting. We need to recruit guys who would rather be run over by a bus than to lose a game like that. We need Jabril to be the rule and not the exception.
Can you imagine even a mediocre late 1990s Hoya team losing a game THAT WAY to THAT TEAM? No way on Earth. There would have been no give up, a lot of hard fouls, much better rebounding, etc.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 16, 2015 6:45:20 GMT -5
One major flaw right now is we foul a ton on defense but JTIII absolutely refuses to turn up the pressure. Hey, here's news: we're fouling anyway! So maybe don't let guards get a head of steam as they plow into our Charmin-soft half court zone.
The Hoyas combine a lot of fouls with very few turnovers and poor rebounding. That's a sign of what we already know; passivity. When you're on your heels bad things happen.
We have the depth, turn it up about 20 notches. It keeps the team energized and on the front foot. You can't look comatose when you have to play defense for 94 feet. Oh, and you might get turnovers. The downside is the opponent might score easily in 7 seconds instead of scoring easily in 17 seconds (like now). Big deal. We should be willing to take that trade.
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