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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 11:47:54 GMT -5
Cosmo, may I suggest looking for and posting that interview? Settle it once and for all. This discussion is way past silly now. It's posted above with the relevant quotes...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 21, 2015 12:24:11 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO.
Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway.
Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 21, 2015 12:35:46 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO. Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway. Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging. When the staff realizes a kid is not a good fit character-wise or family-wise for the program, they back away. No one can expect the staff to explain why they did, but that explains a lot of these recruiting misses. But some are mistakes. We just cannot expect an explanation in each case.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Nov 21, 2015 13:06:30 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO. Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway. Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging. When the staff realizes a kid is not a good fit character-wise or family-wise for the program, they back away. No one can expect the staff to explain why they did, but that explains a lot of these recruiting misses. But some are mistakes. We just cannot expect an explanation in each case. I like your point, pr. It seems to me that there are a lot of considerations that go into recruiting that are ignored or dismissed by some on this board. It's clearly more than simply what a high school kid does on the basketball court, particularly for a school like Georgetown. And we, more often than not, haven't a clue as to why a recruitment does or does not unfold as we think it should. It amazes me when I read comments like "...one thing is clear that we did not put any efforts..." in recruiting a player. Seriously? You would know that how? I'd be far more accepting of some comments if the individual posting it would acknowledge that they are relying on anecdotal information or, worse, speculating. Unfortunately that rarely happens. These folk are all too comfortable spouting their opinions without citing facts. Talk about not putting in any efforts! The ONLY people who REALLY know what the staff is doing recruiting wise are the staff members themselves.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 21, 2015 13:12:27 GMT -5
So true, Avant. Even the recruit probably doesn't know why GU is not calling so much as before, and makes some sort of statement to that effect to an interviewer, which then gives us a hint.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 21, 2015 14:51:41 GMT -5
And we could've done better to have landed Bacon....newsflash neither of those guards actually wanted to come here despite what they said. If Trimble didn't want to come after Jason basically got the reins to the team as a senior hen he was never coming.. i dont have any problem with how staffs handled with bacon. i am just saying if we put in half the efforts we put in for bacon with trimble, we might have gotten it based on the interview he gave. we just ignored trimble in the recruiting process.. Except that's not the reality of what happened, but people will always believe what they want to believe
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 21, 2015 14:58:28 GMT -5
You're a clown. Greg was a top recruit in this area regardless of ranking, no debating that. And he won All Met friggin POY you're acting like the guy was a virtual unknown. And I only got to the Markel paragraph before I had to stop. Sorry I don't remember the Kendall v Starks threads....I'm too busy remembering that Markel was better until his senior year. Even then their career paths weren't too much different. My words clearly say Markel was the top PG when he committed as a soph - which he was. He didn't get as much hype later on in high school because he was the type of kid that had all the tools since he was young so thee wasn't as much room for improvement in his game Lol jk I browsed the rest. Duke doesn't win a national championship without Okafor or Winslow, so I guess while it's cool Quinn cook had a good a/to ratio he wasn't such a game changer that he can be labeled as a miss. My point is that we were his "dream school" and we were recruitin him but he still didn't want to come. You can't force people to come to your program. You cannot have a reasonable debate if you call someone clown for pointing out the truths. I said it before, and I will say it again - Greg was good regardless of the ranking. And I am glad we got him in spite of his low ratings - staffs did recognize his talent. If more programs recognized how good he ACTUALLY was, he would have had a lot more stars attached to his name and we might not have gotten him. Again, Markel was good but Markel wasnt the top pg - Marshall was 5 star since freshman year and he committed to UNC at the end of his freshman year. Aside from making it to MCDAAs, Marshall did live up to his reputation by carrying UNC on his back and even made it into the NBA. When was Markel EVER better than Marshall? Sure, Okafor and Winslow might have scored points, but all the bball experts agreed that it was Cook who controlled the tempo of the game and had a lot of leadership carrying the freshmen. We did put in efforts to get Cook because he was local and we needed PGs badly, but he PASSED on us because Duke was his dream school. And I don't have any problems with the staff's efforts there. Except you keep calling them "truths" when they're not even true... Greg was All-Met POY and possibly the top talent in the area in his class and the discussion were having is about recruiting the DMV better (and yo an extent against UMCP) so I don't see how us landing his supports your argument. Who are you to say he wouldn't have been a Hoya even if he had been more marketable? That's not a "truth" of anything, just your preferred narrative. And locally, the first two years of high school Markel was considered better because his skill set from soph year in high school was pretty much the skill set he brought into his soph season as a Hoya. Sure Marshall was more high profile, had a better college team around him and has a short stint in the NBA, but that has nothing to do with the fact that at 15/16 most locals saw Markel as better (in large part because of superior jumper and handles). As for Quinn Cook, you're clearly overplaying his importance to the team. He's just not as talented as you're naming him out to be, sure he ran an offense well but that was all he could do, for reference Markel had a better college career (minus all the winning). His dream school was always GU, not Duke. And that is the truth.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 21, 2015 16:36:26 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO. Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway. Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging. When the staff realizes a kid is not a good fit character-wise or family-wise for the program, they back away. No one can expect the staff to explain why they did, but that explains a lot of these recruiting misses. But some are mistakes. We just cannot expect an explanation in each case. Is it fair to ask how you would know this Pr?
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Nov 21, 2015 22:23:44 GMT -5
Cosmo, may I suggest looking for and posting that interview? Settle it once and for all. This discussion is way past silly now. post it 3 times already on this thread. agree this is beyond past silly of how people making a big deal out of this
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Nov 21, 2015 22:36:00 GMT -5
You cannot have a reasonable debate if you call someone clown for pointing out the truths. I said it before, and I will say it again - Greg was good regardless of the ranking. And I am glad we got him in spite of his low ratings - staffs did recognize his talent. If more programs recognized how good he ACTUALLY was, he would have had a lot more stars attached to his name and we might not have gotten him. Again, Markel was good but Markel wasnt the top pg - Marshall was 5 star since freshman year and he committed to UNC at the end of his freshman year. Aside from making it to MCDAAs, Marshall did live up to his reputation by carrying UNC on his back and even made it into the NBA. When was Markel EVER better than Marshall? Sure, Okafor and Winslow might have scored points, but all the bball experts agreed that it was Cook who controlled the tempo of the game and had a lot of leadership carrying the freshmen. We did put in efforts to get Cook because he was local and we needed PGs badly, but he PASSED on us because Duke was his dream school. And I don't have any problems with the staff's efforts there. Except you keep calling them "truths" when they're not even true... Greg was All-Met POY and possibly the top talent in the area in his class and the discussion were having is about recruiting the DMV better (and yo an extent against UMCP) so I don't see how us landing his supports your argument. Who are you to say he wouldn't have been a Hoya even if he had been more marketable? That's not a "truth" of anything, just your preferred narrative. And locally, the first two years of high school Markel was considered better because his skill set from soph year in high school was pretty much the skill set he brought into his soph season as a Hoya. Sure Marshall was more high profile, had a better college team around him and has a short stint in the NBA, but that has nothing to do with the fact that at 15/16 most locals saw Markel as better (in large part because of superior jumper and handles). As for Quinn Cook, you're clearly overplaying his importance to the team. He's just not as talented as you're naming him out to be, sure he ran an offense well but that was all he could do, for reference Markel had a better college career (minus all the winning). His dream school was always GU, not Duke. And that is the truth. I am pretty sure Greg wasn't the top player in his class locally, but if you keep arguing that he is just because he was an All-Met POY, then okay go with that. It has nothing to do with missing out on Trimble anyway. I really don't remember Markel being better than Marshall, EVER, - Markel was a major factor at GU starting in his junior year, but Marshall was an insta-impact player for UNC that had better seasons than us - final 4 and plus. Markel might have had superior jumper than Marshall and even quicker as well, but overall as a PG, you cannot argue that Markel was better than Marshall - but if you keep arguing that Markel was better than Marshall when no one else agrees with it.... well I guess you are living in your own world. In terms of Quinn Cook - his importance was actually UNDERPLAYED often. He is definitely not as talented as Winslow, Jones, or Okafor, those ones-and-dones, but he definitely pulled his own weight in getting them a championship. He actually was not a garbage player that got carried by those one and dones. And if Cook's dream school was indeed GU, not duke, as you say, then why was he waiting for the offer from Duke and not committing to us, when he had an offer from us for months and months. He could have committed to us in anytime when we did not have any PGs coming in, but he committed to Duke right away as soon as they offered him. That's not how you downplay a so-called dream school, but again, if you still believe that GU was Cook's dream school... well you are living in your own world again. but let's close this conversation for now - i don't think there is no point in beating a dead horse anymore. focus on the next game
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Nov 21, 2015 22:40:42 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO. Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway. Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging. agree there is a slew of guys we missed out on - it just hurts more when we missed out on the ones who end up torching us. christon, thompson, o'bryant never really destroyed us like scottie and trimble. read the trimble thread in recruiting btw, it is interesting, and actually he wasn't really a Maryland lock as everyone on this board thought him to be, based on the interview i posted and the thread's OP. and it sucks even MORE, because a guy like Trimble could have changed the perception of this program and keep the pipeline of the top talented guards from this arena into the program. Trimble WAS and IS that good...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 21, 2015 22:50:59 GMT -5
Nobody has complete information, so these discussions are largely silly once they get beyond the basic facts that are out there (which is usually not much). In almost every recruitment we don't know (a) the recruit's thoughts, (b) the recruit's parent's / handlers thoughts, and (c) the staff's evaluation of our recruits.
I also think people over-sell the "local" aspect of recruiting. Should we be getting some of these folks? Yes, and we do. But the idea that we should get every top local player is ridiculous. We can't get everybody and many recruits don't even have interest in us.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 21, 2015 23:29:36 GMT -5
Except you keep calling them "truths" when they're not even true... Greg was All-Met POY and possibly the top talent in the area in his class and the discussion were having is about recruiting the DMV better (and yo an extent against UMCP) so I don't see how us landing his supports your argument. Who are you to say he wouldn't have been a Hoya even if he had been more marketable? That's not a "truth" of anything, just your preferred narrative. And locally, the first two years of high school Markel was considered better because his skill set from soph year in high school was pretty much the skill set he brought into his soph season as a Hoya. Sure Marshall was more high profile, had a better college team around him and has a short stint in the NBA, but that has nothing to do with the fact that at 15/16 most locals saw Markel as better (in large part because of superior jumper and handles). As for Quinn Cook, you're clearly overplaying his importance to the team. He's just not as talented as you're naming him out to be, sure he ran an offense well but that was all he could do, for reference Markel had a better college career (minus all the winning). His dream school was always GU, not Duke. And that is the truth. I am pretty sure Greg wasn't the top player in his class locally, but if you keep arguing that he is just because he was an All-Met POY, then okay go with that. It has nothing to do with missing out on Trimble anyway. I really don't remember Markel being better than Marshall, EVER, - Markel was a major factor at GU starting in his junior year, but Marshall was an insta-impact player for UNC that had better seasons than us - final 4 and plus. Markel might have had superior jumper than Marshall and even quicker as well, but overall as a PG, you cannot argue that Markel was better than Marshall - but if you keep arguing that Markel was better than Marshall when no one else agrees with it.... well I guess you are living in your own world. In terms of Quinn Cook - his importance was actually UNDERPLAYED often. He is definitely not as talented as Winslow, Jones, or Okafor, those ones-and-dones, but he definitely pulled his own weight in getting them a championship. He actually was not a garbage player that got carried by those one and dones. And if Cook's dream school was indeed GU, not duke, as you say, then why was he waiting for the offer from Duke and not committing to us, when he had an offer from us for months and months. He could have committed to us in anytime when we did not have any PGs coming in, but he committed to Duke right away as soon as they offered him. That's not how you downplay a so-called dream school, but again, if you still believe that GU was Cook's dream school... well you are living in your own world again. but let's close this conversation for now - i don't think there is no point in beating a dead horse anymore. focus on the next game Greg was top tier in talent for his class, who, locally, was better in your opinion? He was as talented as Otto before he got suspended and hurt, and I think his recent resurgence is easily a testament of that. It has to do with the fact that we were able to recruit the best talent in this area, which you dispute we have the ability to do on a consistent basis. Markel was better at the age of 16, that's not really debatable. At that stage he was better. I'm not saying he ended up better, but that III and many others thought he was the top PG talent in the area and they went after him and snagged him. Effective recruiting, the whole topic were discussing. I never said Quinn Cook was a garbage player hat was carried by others, you brought that up all on your own. I just said in glad he wasn't a Hoya because while he's good he's actually not that good and Markel had a better individual career all things considered, imo. It's a fact that Duke still makes the final four without him. I said GU was his dream school and there's a reason he didn't commit. My point was that kids don't always end up at their dream school even if the opportunity was there. Something changed during his recruiting and he ended up somewhere else, it is what it is. And I know that GU was his dream school for a large part of his childhood because he is a family friend, but then again, I could be living in a "dream world".
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 22, 2015 0:50:00 GMT -5
He was as talented as Otto before he got suspended and hurt, and I think his recent resurgence is easily a testament of that. This is oft-repeated by many, and I simply don't think it's true. Greg had talent, but his performance was never even in the same realm as Otto Porter on the collegiate level. And, while Greg Whittington is in the D-league, Otto is a starter in the NBA. So no, I don't think his "recent resurgence" shows that at all. Maybe eventually he'll get there, and I hope he does, but I just don't think Otto is a good comparison.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 22, 2015 3:20:19 GMT -5
Including the one where Maryland was his dream school. That's all I remember about Trimble's recruitment is that most people thought he was a Maryland lock. I actually don't think Reynolds was that big of a miss given our backcourt in that era -- there's no way Wright comes to GU if Scottie is here IMO. Hart was a miss -- a total mis-evaluation. And perhaps Trimble was too, but there's a really good chance he wasn't coming here anyway. Every staff is going to make mistakes. As much as we could use Hart, there's also a slew of guys who others claim we will regret walking away from that we haven't. Semaj Christon had one decent year at Xavier. They weren't guards, but remember when Sam Thompson (who was fine at OSU) and Johnny O'Bryant were going to haunt us? I don't really remember well all the players we've missed or walked away from ... but we have a tendency to remember only the ones that are damaging. agree there is a slew of guys we missed out on - it just hurts more when we missed out on the ones who end up torching us. christon, thompson, o'bryant never really destroyed us like scottie and trimble. Scottie destroyed Gtown? I think Scottie's Nova teams beat GU only a couple of times. He really did very little damage to the Hoyas overall and was NEVER a great player.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 22, 2015 12:51:05 GMT -5
He was as talented as Otto before he got suspended and hurt, and I think his recent resurgence is easily a testament of that. This is oft-repeated by many, and I simply don't think it's true. Greg had talent, but his performance was never even in the same realm as Otto Porter on the collegiate level. And, while Greg Whittington is in the D-league, Otto is a starter in the NBA. So no, I don't think his "recent resurgence" shows that at all. Maybe eventually he'll get there, and I hope he does, but I just don't think Otto is a good comparison. They were both averaging 12 and 7 when he got suspended, and Whitt had already had a 25 and 10 game by that point which Otto didn't have till like Cuse. How is that performance "not in the same realm"? Try to contextualize things. If Greg didn't tear the ligaments in his knee twice and didn't get suspended he was easily a lottery talent, imo it's pretty obvious from the eye test and the logic test. He literally almost made the opening day roster for the Heat after being out of organized basketball for over two years...not many people can do that. For reference, if you say that his performance was nowhere near the realm of Otto's then no way he should've even sniffed if. After all, Otto's NBA career barely survived being out a month with something minor.
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