Discussion elsewhere: would Georgetown join Ivy League Football/Basketball

[Deleted]

www.voy.com/152805/143578.html
On Voy Forums/Ivy League, there is a very interesting discussion about Georgetown joining the Ivy League. The point is made that the Hoya's football program is very Ivy League like and academically, Georgetown would fit right in. The question is, would Georgetown give up its current high powered basketball program, particularly in light of the building of a new athletic center. I found it an interesting read

[strummer8526]

A bunch of random people are having the same conjecture-filled discussion that we've had here 1,000 times? About a possible conference shift that is not happening now, and likely never will happen?

Seems like a pretty strongly worded thread title, given the context.

[SFHoya99]

My guess/estimation:

1. The Ivy League will never offer
2. Georgetown administration would jump to accept
3. I'm not sure it would actually help our rankings or reputation that much in the short and intermediate term but perhaps there's academic collaboration that would make it worth it.

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2015 10:39:44 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

A bunch of random people are having the same conjecture-filled discussion that we've had here 1,000 times? About a possible conference shift that is not happening now, and likely never will happen?

Seems like a pretty strongly worded thread title, given the context.

Yes but this is a discussion by Ivy Leaguers

[njhoya78]

Never happening, even on a limited-to-football-only basis.

The time for any potential absorption of the Hoyas into Ivies would have been before the formation of the Big East Conference. Back in the late seventies, though, GU athletics as a whole were beneath the level of the Ivy League, as were, arguably, the academics. The basketball program, pre-Patrick Ewing, was improving but was still no where near its present level. GU would not have been considered by the Ivy League back then. Now, GU athletics have (but for football) leapfrogged past the "Ancient Eight" (as the thread cited by JerryLH self-advertises), and the academics are close enough such that GU doesn't really need the label.

When you factor basketball revenues into the equation, there is no way that GU would consider moving all sports into the Ivy League. And even with the completion of Cooper Field, the Hoya football program is not that attractive to the Ivy League to be admitted for that sport only.

[SDHoya]

Nope.

[DFW HOYA]

There are three different issues here, so it's important to understand each.

1. If invited, would Georgetown join the Ivy League in all sports? At this time, no, inasmuch as Jack DeGioia is heavily invested in the Big East, John Thompson III, and the national brand. His successor down the road may think differently, given that outside of men's basketball and track, you could probably fold the other 26 sports under an Ivy funding model without major impact. Still, it's not an issue today and JT III has no interest in being an Ivy coach again.

2. If invited, would Georgetown join the Ivy League in football? Yes, but there's no invite out there. However, the Ivy is undergoing a major schedule shift with the dropping of many PL teams over their collective move to full scholarship. Until it gets to a point where the Ivies need a extra league game to reduce the ridicule of playing Pioneer teams to fill the gaps, it's not happening. However, it has happened that the Ivy has welcomed associate members--Army and Navy competed in track for many years under the Heptagonal Championships before joining the Patriot League.

2. Would Georgetown leave the Patriot League in football? It depends on how bad the scholarship imbalance is and where their Ivy-friendly model would work. The Pioneer is not a good option in that the travel is prohibitive, the schools don't mean anything to Georgetown and they all offer a form of merit aid outside athletics which Georgetown does not. Same for the NEC, although they allow up to 40 scholarships. being an independent would potentially add more Ivy games in October but by November the Hoyas would be left with whatever schools couldn't fill an open date, which would likely dip into the small college ranks. You could always try to form a new Eastern non-scholarship conference like the MAAC did, but who fits that category anymore? Just two: Marist and Davidson.

Regardless, the PL situation has to be addressed through either 1) scholarships, 2) a PL-approved change in recruiting and admissions, or 3) a new conference. None of the three are imminent.

[blueeagle]

Hahaha! The thread title must have been written by someone who works for the NYPost. I think the skillful use of a question mark would have been appropriate.

I agree with the consensus that the inclusion/exclusion of basketball would be a non-starter for all involved.

[hoyasaxa2003]

This discussion seems to occur every year or so. There are other major impediments to joining the Ivy League:

(1) Georgetown would be the only Catholic Ivy League school. Do not underestimate how much of a problem this would pose for Georgetown's theoretically joining the Ivy League.

(2) Why would the Ivy League expand to include Georgetown? Would they seriously offer membership solely because of football scheduling? I find that hard to believe. Also, given how large it is, Georgetown has relatively low resources compared to the rest of the Ivy League. Dartmouth, a much smaller school than Georgetown, with far fewer programs, has a $3.4 billion endowment.

(3) Ivy League membership would force us to give up scholarships. If offered, the academic upside of accepting would probably require us to accept, but it would essentially gut the basketball program. We don't have to worry about that for basketball, because this will never happen.

[DFW HOYA]

Oct 10, 2015 15:11:25 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

If offered, the academic upside of accepting would probably require us to accept, but it would essentially gut the basketball program. We don't have to worry about that for basketball, because this will never happen.

"Never" is not the right word. "Shouldn't happen" is more appropriate. The administration supports basketball because it supports the Georgetown brand. If basketball eroded the brand, changes would follow. If the program somehow went off course after JT III, or some kind of extended probation or scandal followed, this would deemphasize the program much more so than a school to whom the highest level of competition is not even a question (e.g., Louisville, UCLA, Kentucky).

[bigelephant]

This will fly like a cement mixer.

[Hoyaholic]

We already have an appropriate fight song (unfortunately).

[lichoya68]

NO NO NO yup just NO the old new big east will be dominant go hoyas

[SFOHoya]

If for all sports, essentially trading brands: our Big East / Basketball brand for Ivy League / Academic powerhouse brand. How big of a jump in the USNWR rankings makes it potentially worthwhile? From 21 to.... ?

[Bigs"R"Us]

If given the opportunity, I would jump on the chance to join the Ivies. What are we sticking around for - Butler, Creighton and Xavier? Academics trump hoops.

[3xhoya]

Oct 12, 2015 21:47:44 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

If given the opportunity, I would jump on the chance to join the Ivies. What are we sticking around for - Butler, Creighton and Xavier? Academics trump hoops.

Honest question, how does joining the Ivy League help academics? To me it seems like it just a move in name.

For me the basketball team is the one tie I have left with the University. Basketball season is great. It connects me back with Hoyas with whom I would otherwise lose touch. I think it is an important part of the University that helps the overall feel of the school rather than being just a sports team.