tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 5, 2015 14:43:21 GMT -5
Didn't UK make it to the Final 4. Also Calapari Stated early in the season that he had a lot of guys who deserved to play and who was going to make every to get them on the court. Another point that he made was "How would you feel if it was your kid not playing." I don't respect Calapri for a lot of things, but I did respect him on how he handled playing time last year. They had 9 MDs AAs. The FF should be a given....... I personally would steer my child away from a super stacked team. I have strong feelings about the 5* kid that needs 8 other 5* kids to win...... I get what you're saying and, in thinking about it, I probably fall on your side of the argument but there is something to be said for playing with/against the best in practice too I think. Kentucky, however, while they get the "top" kids (based on rankings), even the ones that don't play up to expectations get more love because they play for Kentucky and the spin machine is in constant effect. So if you're a highly-ranked kid that is a bit overrated, Kentucky makes a ton of sense for you. That is, right up until Cal publicly throws you under the bus which has been known to happen from time to time.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 5, 2015 14:46:12 GMT -5
Didn't UK make it to the Final 4. Also Calapari Stated early in the season that he had a lot of guys who deserved to play and who was going to make every to get them on the court. Another point that he made was "How would you feel if it was your kid not playing." I don't respect Calapri for a lot of things, but I did respect him on how he handled playing time last year. They had 9 MDs AAs. The FF should be a given....... I personally would steer my child away from a super stacked team. I have strong feelings about the 5* kid that needs 8 other 5* kids to win...... As for the FF part, I have to agree with zeke. I get that they only lost one game last year to a quality team but I can't count how many times, especially early on in the season, I heard Kentucky referred to as the best two teams in the country. It was Kentucky and everyone else all year according to the WWL and pretty much everyone else as well.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 5, 2015 15:33:08 GMT -5
Didn't UK make it to the Final 4. Also Calapari Stated early in the season that he had a lot of guys who deserved to play and who was going to make every to get them on the court. Another point that he made was "How would you feel if it was your kid not playing." I don't respect Calapri for a lot of things, but I did respect him on how he handled playing time last year. They had 9 MDs AAs. The FF should be a given....... I personally would steer my child away from a super stacked team. I have strong feelings about the 5* kid that needs 8 other 5* kids to win...... What strong feelings are those? Can you point to one 5* recruit that felt he needed to play with "8 other 5* kids to win?" Recruits go to UK for three reasons: 1. Strong chance to be in the Final Four every year 2. Stronger chance to make it to the NBA 3. Academics aren't the highest priority
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 5, 2015 15:34:51 GMT -5
They had 9 MDs AAs. The FF should be a given....... I personally would steer my child away from a super stacked team. I have strong feelings about the 5* kid that needs 8 other 5* kids to win...... As for the FF part, I have to agree with zeke. I get that they only lost one game last year to a quality team but I can't count how many times, especially early on in the season, I heard Kentucky referred to as the best two teams in the country. It was Kentucky and everyone else all year according to the WWL and pretty much everyone else as well. Are you saying they weren't one of the two best teams in the country? I'm no UK fan, but they almost went undefeated. How many teams in the past 30 years have made it to the FF with zero losses? Not too many.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 5, 2015 15:41:12 GMT -5
They had 9 MDs AAs. The FF should be a given....... I personally would steer my child away from a super stacked team. I have strong feelings about the 5* kid that needs 8 other 5* kids to win...... What strong feelings are those? Can you point to one 5* recruit that felt he needed to play with "8 other 5* kids to win?" Recruits go to UK for three reasons: 1. Strong chance to be in the Final Four every year 2. Stronger chance to make it to the NBA 3. Academics aren't the highest priority The recruits also don't expect to see most of the players from the previous year return. Last year's UK team was stacked due to the fact that only 2 of the McDonald's AAs from the previous year went pro (Randle and Young).
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Aug 5, 2015 16:25:40 GMT -5
What strong feelings are those? Can you point to one 5* recruit that felt he needed to play with "8 other 5* kids to win?" Recruits go to UK for three reasons: 1. Strong chance to be in the Final Four every year 2. Stronger chance to make it to the NBA 3. Academics aren't the highest priority The recruits also don't expect to see most of the players from the previous year return. Last year's UK team was stacked due to the fact that only 2 of the McDonald's AAs from the previous year went pro (Randle and Young). TBird there were 2 kids that werent expected back last year and 1 on this coming year. That's still 7 5*s last year and 2 coming back this year. Most didn't think Trey Lyles was leaving. Out of this crop Skal, Jamal, Ullis and Alex will be gone.... That will open up a couple spots.....
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Post by michaeldm9 on Aug 5, 2015 20:58:29 GMT -5
Platoons are dumb. Why would we want to play Copeland 20 minutes a game? We do have a deep roster of interesting parts. We should give a lot of guys a chance early in the season and figure out which 8 or 9 guy rotation makes the most sense as we get into the later part of the season. Kentucky didn't have to play 10. Calapari made a concentrated effort to play everybody. It would have been easier for him to go 7 or 8 deep. Instead he dug into his coach bag to figure out how to play guys who deserved to play. Seem to have worked out last year.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 5, 2015 21:18:24 GMT -5
There was a time back in '84-'85 when they said the Hoya bench was the second best team in the country. Ah, the good old days.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Aug 5, 2015 21:31:52 GMT -5
who v. whom
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Post by michaeldm9 on Aug 5, 2015 21:41:49 GMT -5
Thanks. Public School Education :-)
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 5, 2015 22:13:23 GMT -5
As for the FF part, I have to agree with zeke. I get that they only lost one game last year to a quality team but I can't count how many times, especially early on in the season, I heard Kentucky referred to as the best two teams in the country. It was Kentucky and everyone else all year according to the WWL and pretty much everyone else as well. Are you saying they weren't one of the two best teams in the country? I'm no UK fan, but they almost went undefeated. How many teams in the past 30 years have made it to the FF with zero losses? Not too many. The joke was that the two platoons were the two best teams in the country.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 6, 2015 7:07:02 GMT -5
As for the FF part, I have to agree with zeke. I get that they only lost one game last year to a quality team but I can't count how many times, especially early on in the season, I heard Kentucky referred to as the best two teams in the country. It was Kentucky and everyone else all year according to the WWL and pretty much everyone else as well. Are you saying they weren't one of the two best teams in the country? I'm no UK fan, but they almost went undefeated. How many teams in the past 30 years have made it to the FF with zero losses? Not too many. No. What I said was they were touted as having the 2 best starting fives in the country last year and that it wasn't all that close (pre-injury). They were ridiculously loaded. A Final Four appearance was the floor for that team. Not the ceiling. On paper, they were the best team in the country according to nearly every outlet. But nearly every team loses a game here or there.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 6, 2015 7:13:51 GMT -5
Platoons are dumb. Why would we want to play Copeland 20 minutes a game? We do have a deep roster of interesting parts. We should give a lot of guys a chance early in the season and figure out which 8 or 9 guy rotation makes the most sense as we get into the later part of the season. Kentucky didn't have to play 10. Calapari made a concentrated effort to play everybody. It would have been easier for him to go 7 or 8 deep. Instead he dug into his coach bag to figure out how to play guys who deserved to play. Seem to have worked out last year. Sorry but this is silly. There's no coaching involved with playing platoons. It's about keeping big egos happy with minimal effort. Coaching would be telling the guys that didn't earn minutes that they're not getting minutes. But that doesn't make the benchwarmers happy. The guys that would have been sitting would have started for nearly every other squad in the country and both the coach and the players knew that. How to fix the problem? Ignore it entirely and employ a platoon. Otherwise, top level talent might have a bad taste in their mouths about having chosen Kentucky and may have even said so if they didn't get their minutes. Instead, minutes for everyone. That's utilitarianism and, also, poor coaching. The injury to Poythress was, in a way, helpful to Coach Cal.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Aug 6, 2015 9:21:52 GMT -5
Kentucky didn't have to play 10. Calapari made a concentrated effort to play everybody. It would have been easier for him to go 7 or 8 deep. Instead he dug into his coach bag to figure out how to play guys who deserved to play. Seem to have worked out last year. Sorry but this is silly. There's no coaching involved with playing platoons. It's about keeping big egos happy with minimal effort. Coaching would be telling the guys that didn't earn minutes that they're not getting minutes. But that doesn't make the benchwarmers happy. The guys that would have been sitting would have started for nearly every other squad in the country and both the coach and the players knew that. How to fix the problem? Ignore it entirely and employ a platoon. Otherwise, top level talent might have a bad taste in their mouths about having chosen Kentucky and may have even said so if they didn't get their minutes. Instead, minutes for everyone. That's utilitarianism and, also, poor coaching. The injury to Poythress was, in a way, helpful to Coach Cal. Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 7, 2015 0:10:52 GMT -5
Sorry but this is silly. There's no coaching involved with playing platoons. It's about keeping big egos happy with minimal effort. Coaching would be telling the guys that didn't earn minutes that they're not getting minutes. But that doesn't make the benchwarmers happy. The guys that would have been sitting would have started for nearly every other squad in the country and both the coach and the players knew that. How to fix the problem? Ignore it entirely and employ a platoon. Otherwise, top level talent might have a bad taste in their mouths about having chosen Kentucky and may have even said so if they didn't get their minutes. Instead, minutes for everyone. That's utilitarianism and, also, poor coaching. The injury to Poythress was, in a way, helpful to Coach Cal. Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game. Regardless, Georgetown isn't Kentucky and cannot be coached the same way.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 7, 2015 6:51:28 GMT -5
Sorry but this is silly. There's no coaching involved with playing platoons. It's about keeping big egos happy with minimal effort. Coaching would be telling the guys that didn't earn minutes that they're not getting minutes. But that doesn't make the benchwarmers happy. The guys that would have been sitting would have started for nearly every other squad in the country and both the coach and the players knew that. How to fix the problem? Ignore it entirely and employ a platoon. Otherwise, top level talent might have a bad taste in their mouths about having chosen Kentucky and may have even said so if they didn't get their minutes. Instead, minutes for everyone. That's utilitarianism and, also, poor coaching. The injury to Poythress was, in a way, helpful to Coach Cal. Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game. Agree to disagree. Announcing a platoon means you don't have to manage any egos or tailor roles of any kind. Everyone plays and everyone sits. And, as to coaching, we'll again have to agree to disagree. He's not a good in-game coach. There are very good reasons he was a dumpster fire in the NBA. He's a fantastic recruiter. It pretty much ends right there in my mind.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 7, 2015 6:52:35 GMT -5
Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game. Regardless, Georgetown isn't Kentucky and cannot be coached the same way. Agreed. It's a fun conversation but this point pretty much nails it.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 7, 2015 7:35:33 GMT -5
Regardless, Georgetown isn't Kentucky and cannot be coached the same way. Agreed. It's a fun conversation but this point pretty much nails it. Actually when you look at the distribution of minutes between Gtown & Kentucky last year there really wasn't much difference.. If you take away DSR's high minutes it's even more similar.. JT3 played 9 kids last season 13.7 minutes or more.. Each kid played all 33 games except for DSR.. Calipari played 10 kids 10.9 minutes or more and that includes Poythress.. If Poythress doesn't get hurt I'd bet Marcus Lee wouldn't have gotten to double digits.. Getting two kids touted to be top 10 picks out of HS, who played over 30 minutes per game the year before to take less minutes the next season shows he can manage egos.. I'm not a Calipari fan either but folks have to be a little fair about the job he did last season..
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 7, 2015 8:03:31 GMT -5
Part of coaching is managing egos. As well as managing playing time to make sure the flow and continuity of you team is not disrupted with all of the substitutions that are occurring. Making sure each player accept his role at certain time on the floor. Calapri didn't just role the balls out and they played. I not a big Calapri fan when it comes to a lot of thing, But hing he can do is Coach the game. Agree to disagree. Announcing a platoon means you don't have to manage any egos or tailor roles of any kind. Everyone plays and everyone sits. And, as to coaching, we'll again have to agree to disagree. He's not a good in-game coach. There are very good reasons he was a dumpster fire in the NBA. He's a fantastic recruiter. It pretty much ends right there in my mind. Calipari made it to the Final Four without losing a game, something no coach has been able to do since UNLV in 1991 (more than 30 years ago). He's gone to the Elite Eight every year he's been at UK other than the year after he won a title and his best player blew his knee out, and he's gotten teams that are heavily reliant on freshman and sophomores to play top 15 defense in 4 of the 6 years he's been at UK. You can believe he's as dirty as they come, but you can't say he's only a recruiter. The results on the court are way too good to consider him some kind of better Josh Pastner.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Aug 7, 2015 8:56:03 GMT -5
Just a quick aside on Kentucky--I worked as a high school assistant to a fanatic Kentucky grad here in SoCal from 2002-2007. He used to bemoan the fact that Kentucky was not achieving the consistent results that were expected by their fans. In 2009 when Calipari arrived he was in heaven and for the first few years he lived for the basketball season. However, in the last few years the expectations have changed and the bar is set so high that I notice he truly cannot relax during the season. A Hoya victory against Nova brings me great satisfaction. A Wildcat victory against Florida only brings him relief. It reminds me of rooting for the Yankees for two decades when making the post season was the minimum acceptable result. Even after the season my friend from Lexington lives in fear that Calipari will leave or worse that he will stay and receive another suspension for breaking the rules. I do not envy him at all.
As for the rotations used, I hope that JT III uses a very deep bench every year. I hope that players like Trey Mourning get the opportunity to develop on the court and not just in practice. However, I hate platoon systems like Kentucky uses and North Carolina used under Dean Smith unless there is reasonable equality between players. I see great value in placing Mourning in the game with the first team guards or having Cameron continue to try to develop his shot in game situations when surrounded by players like DSR, Peak and Copeland.
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