Hoya Track investigation

[nathanhm]

Anyone know more about this?

bit.ly/gutrack

In late April, the University received reports of misconduct involving its men’s track team. The University immediately initiated an investigation into those reports and the climate on the team. That investigation is ongoing and has included dozens of interviews with coaches, current and former members of the track program and others with knowledge of the climate around the track program. Although not every student-athlete engaged in misconduct, the reported behavior is deeply concerning, inconsistent with the values of the University, and does not meet the expectations Georgetown has set for members of its community and for its student-athletes.

[DFW HOYA]

Apparently two different issues. Neither mention the NCAA, so the first item appears, at a distance, to be an issue of hazing or some sort of locker room misconduct.

The second issue, "following a report of racial bias," is likely to get further scrutiny, as is the fact that it was published through the public affairs office and not through GUHoyas.com.

[Nevada Hoya]

There was an item on letsrun.com that asked the same question about whether anybody knew of an internal and/or NCAA investigation of the men's varsity (that is what it said) team. It would be disappointing (at least to me) if this involves behavior that should not be tolerated at Georgetown.

[Nevada Hoya]

Several years ago there was an incident of two or three members of the men's track team trashing parts of Healy. The runner, who was still an undergrad, was suspended for a year. He eventually came back and graduated. I am not sure what sanctions were taken against those that just graduated.

[Nevada Hoya]

This might shed some light on this incident: georgetowntrackandfieldexposed.blogspot.com/

[Nevada Hoya]

There are six pages on this on letsrun.com An interesting comment comes from, what I believe, a male runner at GU:

You certainly bring up valid points; with any self-proclaimed "team bonding" activity there will always be a fine grey line of what is acceptable and what is damaging. Let's just assume, for brevity's sake, that you're not a member of the team. You live your life external to the operations of GU T/F. This tells me, and everyone else reading, that you have never been present at any team function, so you cannot speak with one iota of validity regarding the team or the hoya tradition. This is YOUR problem. The scavenger hunt is not damaging to the team, nor can it be considered hazing. It is used for humor purposes. Humor is inherently subjective; what is funny to you may not be funny to me, and vice versa. "Initiation" is strictly voluntary, and that is made explicitly obvious to all members of the team. If you do not want to participate you do not have to do so. Several members of the team have exercised such right in years past due to heavy workloads, illness, prior engagments, etc. Is that team member then punished or not accepted? Of course not. "Initiation" only exists because, well, it is fun, and it is funny if you choose to participate. Perhaps you have seen the scavenger hunt online. Let's say there are 70 "tasks" that a team member can complete. Let me fill you in on a little "secret" since you, as mentioned before, have no idea what you are talking about: of those 70 tasks, only a few are actually "completed", as team members are mature enough (and equipped with a decent enough sense of humor) to realize that the "snarky...juvenile" tasks are simply for a chuckle at face value. I am sorry that you are too tightly strapped in to your proverbial high horse to understand how humor can operate in a community of 18-23 year olds. I will end by saying, once more, that for every heinous claim they (names redacted) may make about the culture of this team there are (quite literally) over 50 REAL members of the M/W XC/TF teams who will assure you that the team culture is appropriate and supportive to all athletes.

[kchoya]

Jul 17, 2015 21:10:17 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

This might shed some light on this incident: georgetowntrackandfieldexposed.blogspot.com/

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

[tashoya]

Thank you for the info, Nevada. I'm not surprised but I am appreciative.

[RusskyHoya]

Jul 18, 2015 1:41:35 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

You certainly bring up valid points; with any self-proclaimed "team bonding" activity there will always be a fine grey line of what is acceptable and what is damaging.

I would strongly, strongly challenge this a priori assumption that any "team bonding" activity must inherently occupy a gray space shared with hazing and abuse. That kind of juvenile thinking is what's gotten us the fraternity and club hazing culture, which is damaging and demeaning in any number of ways. At its core, it's a sad attempt to simulate the sort of camaraderie-building that shared trials like war, dangerous voyages, etc. provide. You'd think the last group in need of something like this is a sports team, which has its own built-in set of plenty challenging trials and experiences through which to built esprit de corps.

'You don't understand, you're not one of us' is often the first - and last - refuge of those complicit in abuse. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but it's neither an original nor particularly compelling argument. Hopefully the NON 18-23 year olds who are responsible for the program can establish a healthier culture.

Not entirely sure what to think about the blog post, which is sort of all over the place and makes some assertions (e.g., that Georgetown's track program focuses on distance to the exclusion of sprint and field because of racism) that are, um, going to be hard to substantiate. On the other hand, if Cura Personalis is to mean something, it has to apply to everyone, including the recruited athletes who are underperforming relative to expectations.

[Nevada Hoya]

I agree Russky. Every individual on the track team should count, even if not living up to expectations. As long as they make an honest effort, that should be recognized. When it is many against one, time for some kind of intervention.

[jctnhoya4ever]

is the ncaa doing a investigation also? and if so does it affect the mens basketball team in any way?

[sleepyjackson21]

Chelsea Cox's Georgetown experience

mygeorgetownexperience.blogspot.com/


Good read and I think a balanced view point.

[Nevada Hoya]

Yes, good read and an overwhelmingly positive view of the coaching staff.

[Problem of Dog]

Jul 18, 2015 15:23:48 GMT -5 jctnhoya4ever said:

is the ncaa doing a investigation also? and if so does it affect the mens basketball team in any way?

Lololol.

Also, the girl who wrote the negative blog post did herself a tremendous disservice. Wasn't well written, wasn't persuasive, and kind of just came off as sour grapes. The kind of thing half of the athletes on any team could write.

[quickplay]

I was a sprinter on the track team not too long ago (didn't cross over with any of the athletes involved here).

She's certainly right that the sprinters are more or less dismissed as a priority at the school. It's not just the lack of facilities, it's the clear lack of interest in providing the support necessary for the athletes to even do the best with what they do have available.

My senior year outdoor season was a series of local, unseasonably cold meets. It's not that the team didn't travel, it's that the travel was heavy weighted to benefit the distance teams. The physical rehabilitation support staff was completely inept. Preventable injuries were commonplace because we were all just trying to figure out what to do as we went along.

There were also no field events (jumps/throws/multis). They got rid of the part time coach that helped out and replaced him with...nothing.

So she's making a completely fair point that the school goes beyond being a more focused 'distance school' - many things it could do to support the other parts of the program were never a part of the discussion. I had no idea how bad our situation was until I saw what other schools were doing. I don't even mean a big school with a huge budget, I mean how other schools with comparable situations provided for their athletes.

It's a very unforgiving sport. All you ever do is push your body further than you could the week before. All D1 sports are high-pressure, but with track there is nowhere to hide. No intangibles, no role players, no heart. Your times are measured by computer and there for everyone to see. The atmosphere could sometimes be unpleasant, and the program makes strict demands of the athletes without reciprocating the effort.

Where she loses me is the racism. Is the lack of support for the sprints/jumps/field events BECAUSE of the typical racial makeup of those events? I can't imagine that being true at Georgetown, but I don't know enough to say definitely no. Her assertions, however, are so far just hinted at and not supported. If you're going to make a claim that carries that kind of weight with it, you should really be able to support it from the first.

As far as the initiation stuff goes, clearly a lot has changed. The claims I've seen floating around are a far cry from my experience.

Ultimately, I think she has very valid complaints about the state of the non-distance aspects of the track team, but really needs to consider what she's saying before she brings race into it. Her intuition about why people do the things they do is not enough to lodge this kind of very aggressive, very public complaint.

But the dismissive, cold nature of Georgetown itself towards some of its own athletes is spot on. I, and many of my teammates, deal day to day with injuries we sustained training and competing for Georgetown. They are real injuries that cause real pain, and will for the rest of my life. I'm not alone. Expecting a little more from the school doesn't sound so unreasonable.

I believe that if the school provided even the basics expected of a D1 team for sprinters/jumpers/field events, the racism claims wouldn't have gained this kind of steam.

[SSHoya]

Liz Clarke on the investigations:

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/georgetown-investigates-allegations-involving-track-and-field-program/2015/07/20/882da40c-2f01-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html

[sleepyjackson21]

She wasn't a sprinter, she was a distance runner. I have no doubt that Stefanie got left behind. She had an injury plagued senior high school season and has never come close to her times of her promising junior year. The dropoff in her times continued in college and frankly, were below Georgetown's high standards. Unfortunately for her, there are dozens of very fast, super talented and highly motivated runners on Georgetown's team. The coaching staff obviously made the decision to focus on the women who had the potential to make an impact. I can understand her frustrations but what i don't like is the serious lack of ownership. Playing any sport at Georgetown is a privilege and certainly not a right, especially if you're a scholarship athlete.

Also wanted to point out that some of the women who left the team were part timers who were also on the basketball team. Track wasn't their focus or main time commitment.

[quickplay]

She was a sprinter but her complaints focus on the sprinters' treatment.

"Playing any sport at Georgetown is a privilege and certainly not a right, especially if you're a scholarship athlete."

Ehh, a privilege, yes, but you're making it sound like an entitlement they've done nothing to earn. The athletes dedicate their college experience to the sport and there needs to be a transparent process for deciding who should be stripped of their position on a team, especially if that athlete is on scholarship. Favoritism should not be a factor in who gets protected and who gets tossed, and that's absolutely the way it works right now.

I don't agree with everything she said at all. I think she brings up a lot of valid points, but sullies them by claiming that it's race-based without the substantive evidence. Of course, there are other points that I completely disagree with. It's definitely a lot more complex than siding with her or the school though.

[sleepyjackson21]

That line was a play off of her line which said "when rules are followed a privilege becomes a right, and my right was taken away from me"

I would argue that my statement is more valid than her statement.

[quickplay]

I think there needs to be more transparency in the process, and I don't think applying due process to "privileges" is a new concept. I'm mostly trying to ignore her writing itself because I find it borderline unreadable, so you'll get no argument from me about the actual phrasing she uses.

Just because it's a privilege to compete for Georgetown doesn't mean there is no reciprocity in the relationship.