Response on PE, Jr. and Transfers

[SFHoya99]

For some reason, that thread won't let me post. I could wait and see if that changes, but I'd rather just create clutter.

Jack's post, in its entirety:

I will be the turd in the punchbowl and restate my objections to this move, hopefully for the last time. Of course I will root for PE Jr. to do well, but I think this ends badly. In a world of unlimited scholarships, I could live with this move, but if DJ is shut out in order to bring in a player who cannot help a team that could be pretty good next year but needs depth, JTIII is showing loyalty to the wrong guy.

There were reasons he did not come to Georgetown in the first place, and not all of them were related to his mom. Guys who bounce from program to program for playing time are not the type of high-character guys I would like to see in blue and gray. I don't know young Pat and I don't know his motives, but I do know that the last itinerant scholar to come to the Hilltop was another lanky athlete named Harvey Thomas, and I believe had he never come to Georgetown this current decision would be up to Craig Esherick and not JTIII. The risk is not worth the reward here, unless PE Sr. is ready to make the initial 8 figure pledge toward the Thompson Convocation Center.

Though I don't agree with your first paragraph, I take more umbrage with your second.

It is ridiculous to judge a person's character by the number of high schools they attended. Comparing him to Harvey Thomas just because of that is insulting.

[hoyalove4ever]

I agree that the PE-Jr. comparison to Harvey is a huge stretch, but otherwise I agree w/ Jack's second paragraph. Harvey's recruitment, conduct, and dismissal was allegedly the thing that put Craig at odds w/ Ronny, who is said to have vouched for Harvey's character and kept negative info from Craig during the recruitment process. More than anything else, that feud let to the decline of our program as it pitted players against coaches and undercut recruiting (see Cheyenne Moore).

Jack's posts should be read to underscore the danger of bringing in potential malcontents or "me-first" players-- a danger which cannot be overstated. I'm not saying that PE Jr. is that type of player, because I don't know enough about the situation; I'm just saying that the concern is a very legitimate one.

Here's to hoping that PE Jr. has a productive and enjoyable stay on the Hilltop.

[Lockdownhoya]

I am a fairly new member to this site but long time Hoya Fan--Does anyone have anymore information on why Ronnie left the Hilltop

[HeartAttackHoya]

While it is unfortunate that DJ might be the odd man out as a result of the offer to Jr., I reason that the fact that Ewing is ready to sit out a year before joining the team lends itself to believing he is committed to the Hoyas.

[nychoya3]

Ewing had no choice in the matter of sitting out. He has to if he transfers.

I don't see why transfering for playing time is a stain on one's character. PE2 is a phenomenal athlete - the best at Georgetown in sometime - who could, with the right coaching, develop into an NBA player. It wasn't happening for him at Indiana. I think he will have better luck at Georgetown. This kid is, at worst, the ideal 6th man. I think he can be considerably better than that.

I wouldn't go around comparing people to Harvey Thomas without any evidence. There's nothing to suggest that Ewing is a problem. Moreover, you make quite a leap in assuming that Ewing and DJ have anything to do with each other. Many have speculated that Pat wouldn't even be a counter next year if his father pays his tuition.

[michaeln]

SFHoya99 said:

but if DJ is shut out in order to bring in a player who cannot help a team

Perhaps I don't understand, but if PE, Jr. is sitting out next year, why is it assumed that PE, Jr. will be taking DJ's scholarship next year?

[Cambridge]

Jack said:

I will be the turd in the punchbowl and restate my objections to this move, hopefully for the last time. Of course I will root for PE Jr. to do well, but I think this ends badly. In a world of unlimited scholarships, I could live with this move, but if DJ is shut out in order to bring in a player who cannot help a team that could be pretty good next year but needs depth, JTIII is showing loyalty to the wrong guy.

There were reasons he did not come to Georgetown in the first place, and not all of them were related to his mom. Guys who bounce from program to program for playing time are not the type of high-character guys I would like to see in blue and gray. I don't know young Pat and I don't know his motives, but I do know that the last itinerant scholar to come to the Hilltop was another lanky athlete named Harvey Thomas, and I believe had he never come to Georgetown this current decision would be up to Craig Esherick and not JTIII. The risk is not worth the reward here, unless PE Sr. is ready to make the initial 8 figure pledge toward the Thompson Convocation Center.

I understand your concern, however I think the comparison to Harvery Thomas is a bit of a stretch. Harvey had a lot of troubles, emotional and psychological, but he was talented. PE2 is very talented and has been caught in the tragic eddy of a broken marriage. His high school transfers were not because of lack of playing time, but were moves in an elaborate chess game his parents were playing.

The fact of the matter is that PE2 was caught in a power struggle between his mother and father who had just completed/in the midst of a messy divorce during his recruitment. His father, obviously I suppose, hoped that PE2 would come to GU, but I think family tensions and perhaps the pressure of following PE convinced him that Indiana might be a better fit. Seems that his father, his familiarity with Gtown, Matt Causey (an AAU teammate) and Darian Townes (a former commit) were big factors in him leaning towards GU...however in the end he decided against it. PE2 took his visit to Indiana and wished to commit, however PE asked for a sit down meeting first. Despite the resistence of PE, he eventually signed the letter.

Here are some articles, not sure if you need membership, that go into detail about the recruitment.

georgetown.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=183660

Edited. This is membership-restricted material from that site. Please avoid posting this kind of material (beyond the link) going forward.

[FOTP]

I'm happy PEII is coming to G'Town. However, I have to agree with some other folks in that I'm not sure it was the best move for the Hoyas going forward.

I've watched PEII play more than a few times over the past two years and he's just an undersized 4 man without much offensive skill. Sorry.

I'd rather use the schollie on a four year commit who won't rust out on the bench this year and then only have two years left.

Quickly: Name me an impact transfer (and Jerome Williams doesn't count since he didn't have to sit out) that actually ends up working out? Not a ton.

He wasn't playing at Indiana for a reason...

[Geo]

There are no comparisons as PE2 is the first Division 1 transfer at G'town in over 20 years. Certainly, other universities have had tremendous benefits with D-1 b-ball transfers. PE2 is a bit like JYD in that he is high energy and athletic. We need rebounders and guys who can get up and down. Common, who do you think we are missing out on?

[FOTP]

I'm not just talking about transfers to Georgetown. I know we haven't done it ages.

I'm actually asking about other teams in D-1. Who has transfered and you've said after two years "Wow...he made a big difference for that new team"?

Will Bynum was pretty solid at Georgia Tech after transferring from Arizona. I'm drawing a blank after that though.

I wouldn't be surprised if JTII and PE Senior had a little something to do with this in terms of convincing JTIII.

[ptldhoya]

First, I don't accept the argument that because Ewing is willing to sit out, he is unselfish. I'm not saying that his isn't unselfish, but, as was pointed out, those are the rules and nothing can be inferred about Ewing Jr. sitting out pursuant to transfer rules.
Second, I believe that ransfers can work out, and I'm not sure where all this tranfers don't work talk comes from. Sure, the Hoyas haven't had one in quite a while, but that doesn't mean much to me. As a Hoya in Oregon, I have seen transfers work locally. For example, Nick Dewitz transferred from Iowa to Oregon State and sat out a year. Last year, his first playing, he absolutely wreaked havoc on many Pac 10 teams. This is but one example. Look at what Will Bynum accomplished at Georgia Tech after transferring from Arizona. While he wasn't a starter at Tech, he was their spark plug and arguably their best one on one scorer. Transfers can, and will in Jr.'s case, work.
Good Luck Patrick!

[DanMcQ]

I object to the turd in the punchbowl imagery. Good God man, what sort of parties have you been attending lately?

[SFHoya99]

FOTP said:

I'm happy PEII is coming to G'Town. However, I have to agree with some other folks in that I'm not sure it was the best move for the Hoyas going forward.

I've watched PEII play more than a few times over the past two years and he's just an undersized 4 man without much offensive skill. Sorry.

I'd rather use the schollie on a four year commit who won't rust out on the bench this year and then only have two years left.

Quickly: Name me an impact transfer (and Jerome Williams doesn't count since he didn't have to sit out) that actually ends up working out? Not a ton.

He wasn't playing at Indiana for a reason...

Dahntay Jones.

Of course, he started at Rutgers.

I don't expect PE, Jr. to be a star. But he fills a void in our current skills portfolio, so to speak, and he has the potential to be very good.

In '06-07, Jr.'s fourth year and junior year, we'll have, at best, one senior playing and 2-3 juniors with roles. If I had to guess, we may only have one starting upperclassmen. In some ways I like transfers, because we get only Ewing's 4th and 5th years.

[HoyaChris]

FOTP said:

I'm happy PEII is coming to G'Town. However, I have to agree with some other folks in that I'm not sure it was the best move for the Hoyas going forward.

I've watched PEII play more than a few times over the past two years and he's just an undersized 4 man without much offensive skill. Sorry.

I'd rather use the schollie on a four year commit who won't rust out on the bench this year and then only have two years left.

Quickly: Name me an impact transfer (and Jerome Williams doesn't count since he didn't have to sit out) that actually ends up working out? Not a ton.

He wasn't playing at Indiana for a reason...

How about 3 transfers from Indiana alone?

Larry Bird - To Indiana State

Delray Brooks - To the 1987 Providence team that beat us to get to the Final Four.

Last Year either Iowa or Iowa State's leading scorer was a transfer from Indiana.

[Joe Hoya]

Iowa had Luke Recker from Indiana. He transferred because of issues with Bobby Knight, I believe.

Are we counting Lawrence Roberts at MSU and John Lucas III at OSU? Those are the guys that left Baylor (I'm sure there were others, but none with any impact) and became the SEC Player of the Year and the starting PG on a Final Four team, respectively.

[JimmyHoya]

Ryan Humphrey didn't do too bad at ND either.

Byron Mouton was a solid contributer for the Terps.

[nychoya3]

Luis Flores. Moral: Players are only good once they leave Rutgers.

Tony Bethel?

[TC]

Jack said:

There were reasons he did not come to Georgetown in the first place, and not all of them were related to his mom. Guys who bounce from program to program for playing time are not the type of high-character guys I would like to see in blue and gray.

There were reasons he didn't come to Georgetown in the first place - and I'll list some of them :

a) Esherick was a coach that not many top recruits wanted to play for
b) The 2003-2004 Hoyas were not going to be a good team
c) Brandon Bowman ahead of him on the depth chart
d) Living in his father's shadow is an easier problem to deal with than fighting for minutes in a packed lineup

Second, a Georgetown offseason without unexpected turnover is like ..... well, I don't know what it's since I've never seen a Georgetown offseason without a point guard transferring, dropping out, flunking out, or arrested for doing a Michael Schumacher impersonation. There'll be a spot for DJ.

If I have a choice between a guy named Rush and a guy named Ewing, give me the Ewing every day.

[jerseyhoya34]

TC said:

There were reasons he didn't come to Georgetown in the first place - and I'll list some of them :

a) Esherick was a coach that not many top recruits wanted to play for
b) The 2003-2004 Hoyas were not going to be a good team
c) Brandon Bowman ahead of him on the depth chart
d) Living in his father's shadow is an easier problem to deal with than fighting for minutes in a packed lineup

Second, a Georgetown offseason without unexpected turnover is like ..... well, I don't know what it's since I've never seen a Georgetown offseason without a point guard transferring, dropping out, flunking out, or arrested for doing a Michael Schumacher impersonation. There'll be a spot for DJ.

If I have a choice between a guy named Rush and a guy named Ewing, give me the Ewing every day.

TC, I expect that we'll see at least one transfer, although I don't have anything hard to back that up. Regardless, it is still early to tell on that front. Nonetheless, it is not like we're talking seriously about losing any of our 2-3 core players like we have in offseasons past.

[nychoya3]

I can't wait till he suits up. I bet it buys us one more national tv game then we'd otherwise get. The montages alone will be worth a scholarship. This is a good move from a basketball point of view. It's an absolute coup from a PR point of view.

For a program that's been down for pretty close to a decade now, it's huge that we get some national press. We already have a good story to tell, but Ewing's presence makes it even better. You can't quantify the effects on recruits in the future, but it's there. Players want to play at a name school, and a school that gets them national exposure. This is a step towards that.