rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on Jul 13, 2015 17:07:40 GMT -5
Just because something isn't a 1:1 equivalency doesn't mean you can't use something for predictive purposes. It's like the idea of translating adjusting for competition and other contextual elements is foreign to people. What now you say? Adjusting for competition? What's that?
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Jul 13, 2015 22:25:53 GMT -5
If Kenner were indicative of play, Lonnie Baxter would be first team All-NBA. If Kenner were indicative of play, Curt Smith would be a multi-millionaire. Fact is, Lonnie played in the league. That's an accomplishment in and of itself.
|
|
dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
|
Post by dreamhoya on Jul 13, 2015 22:27:31 GMT -5
I said after seeing Riyan early last year that he should get some minutes; I got laughed at. Just like Sims, Hayes, and Bowen... But on this team, Riyan probably won't get a lot of minutes. All of a sudden, the guard position ain't too shabby. Who was Riyan going to take minutes from last year? Do we beat the Utes if Riyan played more minutes during the year? Nah not saying that.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jul 14, 2015 10:11:53 GMT -5
LIKE RIYAN good genes AND can go to the hoop think hell contribute some this year.. GO HOYAS
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Jul 14, 2015 13:34:31 GMT -5
Who was Riyan going to take minutes from last year? Do we beat the Utes if Riyan played more minutes during the year? Nah not saying that. Again, if you said he should get some minutes, who should've played fewer minutes? And if you're not saying that we would've beaten Utah, then isn't it pointless to be arguing over how many minutes the kid got?
|
|
|
Post by daymondmyles on Jul 15, 2015 12:09:32 GMT -5
Again, if you said he should get some minutes, who should've played fewer minutes? And if you're not saying that we would've beaten Utah, then isn't it pointless to be arguing over how many minutes the kid got? You're missing the point. Would we have been better last year if Riyan played or would we have beaten Utah? Probably or almost definitely no. But sometimes you do things for the long term good and the future. Playing Riyan SOME would have helped his development and made him more viable if need him as an option. Programs often play walk ons when they can to get them some experience (Izzo does this a lot) so if they are ever needed, they aren't completely unprepared. JT3 doesn't do that and I disagree with that, but I don't think Riyan would even be in my top 10 of examples where that has hurt the program. Regardless, the point of the post was not to lodge my complaint about that aspect of JT3. My only point is that Riyan can play (if we need him).
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2015 15:19:05 GMT -5
People like to say that Kenner has no bearing on future success but in my experience it's been pretty indicative if you watch the actual play and not rely on stats which can be empty depending on the game. Williams is a much better scorer, shooter and dribbler than Caprio. Not even close. Regardless I didn't necessarily want Riyan to take real minutes last year. Just get in earlier in junk time. Allen should never have gone in before him either. Not a big criticism though. I thought JT3 did a great job and probably his best job at rotating players last year. The only reason Caprio really got significant time was because there was a depth problem in the front court with the expulsion of Whittington and suspension of Josh Smith. He basically came in to play power forward and center to get some rebounds and try to contain their big when Hopkins/Lubick/Moses were in foul trouble that year. It was basically a desperation move. I doubt he would get alot of minutes as a guard because like you said his scoring shooting and dribbling was not that good. Not to mention he lacked speed and was slow for a guard. So even though Riyan may be a better guard than Caprio it doesn't follow that Riyan should get PT as a guard because Caprio was getting PT as a big, not a guard. At 6-6 220 lbs, Caprio could fulfill that role in a pinch whereas Riyan can't really do that at 6-4 175 lbs. (in fact that BMI is skinnier than Iverson's BMI).
|
|
|
Post by daymondmyles on Jul 15, 2015 16:39:51 GMT -5
I agree with that Professor. Different teams, difference circumstances, different needs.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Jul 15, 2015 17:45:01 GMT -5
Are we really having this discussion?
Williams and Caprio. Our Backcourt depth must be worse than I thought.
|
|
|
Post by pahoyafan1 on Jul 15, 2015 19:54:17 GMT -5
Are we really having this discussion? Williams and Caprio. Our Backcourt depth must be worse than I thought. Honestly I'm wondering how we manage to give significant minutes to Tre, DSR and LJ when you have Isaac, Paul and whatever big emerges (which can be atleast two with Jesse and Marcus at this point). I prefer Tre running the point and playing DSR off the ball and LJ seems to be making the famous freshman-sophmore leap. Really curious to see how minutes are distributed this year
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,736
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 15, 2015 20:01:57 GMT -5
The guard depth issue has only really been about injury. While it's tough to read Kenner for defense, especially at the 2, I think you've got:
PG - Playable by DSR, Tre with Peak probably in a pinch SG - Playable by DSR, Tre, Peak, Johnson and some people think White, in a pinch SF - Most of the team: Peak, Johnson, White, Derrickson, Copeland PF - Again: White, Copeland, Derrickson, Agau, Govan, Mourning C - Govan, Hayes, Agau, probably Derrickson and Mourning; and then White or Copeland in an absolute pinch
We've got so many players that seem ready to put in minutes if needed at most of these spots, it will take some bad luck to need to further down the depth chart.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,734
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 15, 2015 20:51:31 GMT -5
The guard depth issue has only really been about injury. While it's tough to read Kenner for defense, especially at the 2, I think you've got: PG - Playable by DSR, Tre with Peak probably in a pinch SG - Playable by DSR, Tre, Peak, Johnson and some people think White, in a pinch SF - Most of the team: Peak, Johnson, White, Derrickson, Copeland PF - Again: White, Copeland, Derrickson, Agau, Govan, Mourning C - Govan, Hayes, Agau, probably Derrickson and Mourning; and then White or Copeland in an absolute pinch We've got so many players that seem ready to put in minutes if needed at most of these spots, it will take some bad luck to need to further down the depth chart. Coach Thompson isn't going to go regularly beyond eight or nine. As of now, it looks something like: Starters: Campbell, DSR, Peak, Copeland, Hayes/Govan First off the bench: White Next: Derrickson Limited action: Cameron, Mourning Spot duty/wait until next year: Agau, Johnson Last Two Minutes: Allen, Williams
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 21:38:22 GMT -5
The guard depth issue has only really been about injury. While it's tough to read Kenner for defense, especially at the 2, I think you've got: PG - Playable by DSR, Tre with Peak probably in a pinch SG - Playable by DSR, Tre, Peak, Johnson and some people think White, in a pinch SF - Most of the team: Peak, Johnson, White, Derrickson, Copeland PF - Again: White, Copeland, Derrickson, Agau, Govan, Mourning C - Govan, Hayes, Agau, probably Derrickson and Mourning; and then White or Copeland in an absolute pinch We've got so many players that seem ready to put in minutes if needed at most of these spots, it will take some bad luck to need to further down the depth chart. Coach Thompson isn't going to go regularly beyond eight or nine. As of now, it looks something like: Starters: Campbell, DSR, Peak, Copeland, Hayes/Govan First off the bench: White Next: Derrickson Limited action: Cameron, Mourning Spot duty/wait until next year: Agau, Johnson Last Two Minutes: Allen, Williams That's pretty much how I'm feeling, though I think there's a good chance JT3 starts Paul instead of Tre. If Tre starts, that first sub (for Tre/DSR/LJ) is always going to be bigger. Starting bigger allows a little more flexibility.
|
|
hoyasaxa2003
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,816
Member is Online
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 16, 2015 11:34:37 GMT -5
Coach Thompson isn't going to go regularly beyond eight or nine. As of now, it looks something like: Starters: Campbell, DSR, Peak, Copeland, Hayes/Govan First off the bench: White Next: Derrickson Limited action: Cameron, Mourning Spot duty/wait until next year: Agau, Johnson Last Two Minutes: Allen, Williams That's pretty much how I'm feeling, though I think there's a good chance JT3 starts Paul instead of Tre. If Tre starts, that first sub (for Tre/DSR/LJ) is always going to be bigger. Starting bigger allows a little more flexibility. I hope Tre starts because I would prefer DSR to play off-ball most of his minutes, but I also agree that there's a decent chance he starts with a bigger lineup (DSR/Peak/etc.) I essentially agree with DFW's assessment. My only change is that I think that Agau/Johnson might be ahead of Cameron if he doesn't improve. I realize neither Johnson or Agau really play the same position, but I think there's a really good chance Cameron's minutes are extremely limited without any improvement.
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jul 16, 2015 22:40:34 GMT -5
This is where things get hyperbolic: people hear criticisms of a kid, so they go overboard in defending him.
Riyan Williams, based on all available evidence, should not be getting time in front of anyone on the roster, including David Allen, who was a better player than Williams in high school, and didn't come to school as a manager, but as a player.
I mean, seriously, when has anyone ever seen anything to suggest that Riyan Williams should get minutes?
|
|
|
Post by gmhoya1987 on Jul 17, 2015 12:56:38 GMT -5
Really love the makeup of our roster…freshmen have looked good at Kenner it sounds like too. We need guys to step up and make perimeter threes consistently with DSR and we could be really strong offensively.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
|
Post by lichoya68 on Jul 27, 2015 10:13:56 GMT -5
agree with you gmhoya1987 agree CANT WAIT we will surprise yup
|
|