SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 20, 2015 10:59:13 GMT -5
I think that's your most likely starting five for Game 1. I'll bet any amount of money Hayes isn't a starter. Have it on very good authority that only two locks to start are DSR and Govan. Handing a freshman a starting spot without even coaching him in practice yet doesn't sound like JTIII's style to me. Hayes's injury is certainly a shame. I hope he is a quick healer and will be able to play in Italy. I love that Tre is lighting it up. I enjoy the reports from the Kenner league. Thanks to all of you for the recaps! It doesn't mean a starting spot is actually handed to anyone. It might mean that someone just thinks they are all but guaranteed to win the spot because of their perceptions of talent.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jul 20, 2015 11:51:25 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 20, 2015 11:58:58 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him? Freshman Greg Monroe doesn't seem completely unattainable, though probably without the assists and probably playing a few less minutes. Greg was good but not great his freshman year, and his numbers are buoyed by bigger games early. As the season wore on, a lot of opponents figured out they didn't need to double team him in the post because he wasn't a great post finisher yet. The result was his best game was probably when he tore apart UConn in the BE opener. That said, I suspect Jessie won't get quite so many assists or draw so many fouls or get quite so many boards. So somewhere from somewhat to a little worse on offense. Monroe wasn't great on D, but it looks like Jessie's weaker point so maybe less so there as well. As for a comp to last year, well, Josh was around Monroe as an offensive player, but Hopkins was well below, so I suspect Jessie to be somewhere in between. Defensively, he's probably lesser, so we might be a little behind at center. Course, we hope to be ahead almost everywhere else, where the only other real contributor we lost was Trawick. Not to minimize that, but improvement from everyone else should overcome that.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jul 20, 2015 12:00:20 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him? Wouldn't be surprised by that if it did. I've been on record for a long time saying he will be a huge factor on offense. Especially since this conference only has a few post players that can match up with him. that list is basically DeRosiers and Ochefu maybe Delgado. He has to be doubled on the post. Too skilled down there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 12:06:46 GMT -5
Zero chance Coleland sits. He has POY potential and could leave after the season and yet we want to run a small lineup out there? Don't see it. Where's he going?
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Post by centercourt400s on Jul 20, 2015 12:08:04 GMT -5
If Govan can give us 80% of Josh Smith's offense and 60% of Hopkins' defense it'll be a good freshman year.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 12:09:09 GMT -5
www.casualhoya.com/2015/7/20/9002843/kenner-league-recap-july-19-2015Full write up here, I'll link the part about Agau since most of the Hoyas in action did not play... AKOY AGAU: 13 pts, 6-8 2pt, 1-2 ft, 7 reb, 1 asst, 3 bl, 3 TO -Had a nice post pass to a cutter in the lane -did a good job helping on a ball screen, then recovering to his man in the corner to contest a 3 -solid shot blocker - good timing, quick off his feet, does not fall for ball fakes often -ran the court well for two transition layups -had a nice power move in the post -was very patient underneath - let two defenders jump, waited until they came down, then went up to finish -took a defensive board end to end and finished through traffic +1 -took his man off the dribble from the top of the key, with a spin move in the lane and a strong finish at the rim -Agau looked really solid this weekend - he looks like a solid BE quality player, and I’ll be surprised if he does not make some significant contributions this year and moving forward. You can see why he was highly recruited, he has clear physical talent and basketball skill. He looks just a little like Jeff Green on the court, with the combination of decent size, athleticism, skill, and passing instincts. Not as big/strong , athletic, or skilled as jeff by any means, but he has a very "poor man’s" version of Jeff’s package.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 20, 2015 13:03:08 GMT -5
I could see Govan and DSR being the only locks to start. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It just means the other 4 key guys are talented enough to push each other and the "loser" becomes the 6th man and probably plays starter minutes anyway. DSR is all-conference and the senior leader. As for Govan, we all know what JTIII thinks of Hayes. So it might or might not be on "good authority" but would anyone be shocked if that were JTIII's thoughts heading into the year? Agree. I think if it really is the case that DSR and Govan are the only locks, it's not just a function of how good they are but also a function of the competition. Isaac is going to be very good, but he's competing with White, Derrickson and more at the 4 and basically everyone at the 3. Tre may be pushing Peak. And so on. But while Hayes made some plays in the tournament, I think it's very possible that Govan is so much more talented that it's obvious he's getting the call. And DSR is DSR. So I basically took it as "Govan is super talented and the staff leans towards open competition." When the dust settles, though, I expect all the starters from last year to start, Govan to have taken the center job and that leaves one open spot for Campbell, White, Derrickson, Agau, and son on to battle it out. I figure White gets it, partially because we're low on guards and Campbell's offense will be nice off the bench.Agreed. DSR, LJ, Copeland, Govan all start. The fifth spot may rotate all season depending on matching up with the opponent because the competition is too close. I think Paul White may get the official start at the 4 just based off seniority. Basically the power forward slot is up for grabs between Paul White, Derrickson, Agau, and even Mourning. They all bring something to the table so I'd like to see them all get minutes at the 4.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 20, 2015 13:12:07 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him? Monroe like is just too high an expectation IMO. But what Govan has right now is a really fantastic hook shot (w/ range. Not a baby hook or jump hook but a real hook shot. Almost a sky hook). That shot will be unstoppable under the current NCAA rules because the defender is not allowed to touch the offensive player. Touching or bumping the offensive player is really all you can do to try to disrupt the hook shot but now that has been taken away by the NCAA. Defensively, Govan may have some foul trouble. Not as bad as Josh but I think that would be the primary way to neutralize his game and get him off the floor. The hook shot is really the key for him though, that separates him from other guys. There's really no way to stop it under the current rules without double or triple teaming and trying to get the steal. It's an elite weapon he has that few players in the game have today.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jul 20, 2015 13:12:46 GMT -5
8000 posts insulting other posters and past players would make him much more reliable, right? I don't claim to have "sources" and I've never posted "inside information." If I do, then you can question the credibility of what I'm saying about JT3's plans. So because your posts are less informed, they are more reliable? Or is it that its OK for you to criticize others who claim to be well informed if they are not long time/prolific Hoyatalk members, which represents the universe of people who know anything about Hoya Hoops? Where is that ignore button again...
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jul 20, 2015 13:27:01 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him? Monroe like is just too high an expectation IMO. But what Govan has right now is a really fantastic hook shot (w/ range. Not a baby hook or jump hook but a real hook shot. Almost a sky hook). That shot will be unstoppable under the current NCAA rules because the defender is not allowed to touch the offensive player. Touching or bumping the offensive player is really all you can do to try to disrupt the hook shot but now that has been taken away by the NCAA. Defensively, Govan may have some foul trouble. Not as bad as Josh but I think that would be the primary way to neutralize his game and get him off the floor. The hook shot is really the key for him though, that separates him from other guys. There's really no way to stop it under the current rules without double or triple teaming and trying to get the steal. It's an elite weapon he has that few players in the game have today. I really like your point. The cynic in me says that the refs are going to allow smaller defenders get away with bumping him because their general method of calling the post game is to ignore the physical contact initiated by defenders smaller than the offensive player and to call any contact initiated by the bigger offensive player (especially if the small defender is "hit" so hard that he throws himself down falls down)
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jul 20, 2015 13:32:40 GMT -5
Govan cannot be stoic like Big Mike was back in the day. He (and III) have to holler when he gets fouled, which will be often.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 20, 2015 13:38:11 GMT -5
Monroe like is just too high an expectation IMO. But what Govan has right now is a really fantastic hook shot (w/ range. Not a baby hook or jump hook but a real hook shot. Almost a sky hook). That shot will be unstoppable under the current NCAA rules because the defender is not allowed to touch the offensive player. Touching or bumping the offensive player is really all you can do to try to disrupt the hook shot but now that has been taken away by the NCAA. Defensively, Govan may have some foul trouble. Not as bad as Josh but I think that would be the primary way to neutralize his game and get him off the floor. The hook shot is really the key for him though, that separates him from other guys. There's really no way to stop it under the current rules without double or triple teaming and trying to get the steal. It's an elite weapon he has that few players in the game have today. I really like your point. The cynic in me says that the refs are going to allow smaller defenders get away with bumping him because their general method of calling the post game is to ignore the physical contact initiated by defenders smaller than the offensive player and to call any contact initiated by the bigger offensive player (especially if the small defender is "hit" so hard that he throws himself down falls down) Right, with the hook shot the offensive player doesn't have to bang into or initiate contact with the defensive player to create space. All you have to do is turn your back to the defender and then sweep into a hook. I've felt for a while now that the hook shot will make a huge comeback because with the new NCAA rules the defender can't put a hand, not to mention a forearm (which was the new rule implemented in the 90s) and putting a hand on the back of the offensive player (and pushing) is the only way to try and alter or defend the hook shot.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jul 20, 2015 13:50:08 GMT -5
Zero chance Coleland sits. He has POY potential and could leave after the season and yet we want to run a small lineup out there? Don't see it. Where's he going? You know the answer.
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ryang
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Post by ryang on Jul 20, 2015 13:54:07 GMT -5
Govan cannot be stoic like Big Mike was back in the day. He (and III) have to holler when he gets fouled, which will be often. What was that Esherick quote again? About people fouling Sweetney. I honestly forget.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jul 20, 2015 15:38:43 GMT -5
is this year freshman govan goin to be better than last year's josh in terms of production? are we expectin somethin like greg monroe freshman year from him? Wouldn't be surprised by that if it did. I've been on record for a long time saying he will be a huge factor on offense. Especially since this conference only has a few post players that can match up with him. that list is basically DeRosiers and Ochefu maybe Delgado. He has to be doubled on the post. Too skilled down there. Desrosiers graduated. The centers of note in the league he'll have to contend with are Ochefu, Delgado, Fischer, Reynolds.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 20, 2015 16:12:26 GMT -5
Those were the best seven years of his life.
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Post by pahoyafan1 on Jul 20, 2015 23:36:46 GMT -5
Agree. I think if it really is the case that DSR and Govan are the only locks, it's not just a function of how good they are but also a function of the competition. Isaac is going to be very good, but he's competing with White, Derrickson and more at the 4 and basically everyone at the 3. Tre may be pushing Peak. And so on. But while Hayes made some plays in the tournament, I think it's very possible that Govan is so much more talented that it's obvious he's getting the call. And DSR is DSR. So I basically took it as "Govan is super talented and the staff leans towards open competition." When the dust settles, though, I expect all the starters from last year to start, Govan to have taken the center job and that leaves one open spot for Campbell, White, Derrickson, Agau, and son on to battle it out. I figure White gets it, partially because we're low on guards and Campbell's offense will be nice off the bench.Agreed. DSR, LJ, Copeland, Govan all start. The fifth spot may rotate all season depending on matching up with the opponent because the competition is too close. I think Paul White may get the official start at the 4 just based off seniority. Basically the power forward slot is up for grabs between Paul White, Derrickson, Agau, and even Mourning. They all bring something to the table so I'd like to see them all get minutes at the 4. At this point it's safe to say that Tre, DSR, LJ, Paul, and Cope all see 30 min a game regardless of who starts (and rightfully so). I would be shocked if Jesse wasn't our starting center but am curious to see how the rotation between Jesse, Marcus, Agau, and possibly Trey/Hayes shakes out over the course of the season. It sounds like Kaleb can provide depth at the 2/3 which is a pleasant surprise. One thing I love about this freshman class is the fact that they are not only high character guys but also gym rats who strive to get better. I am much more excited about this year than I was heading into last season.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jul 21, 2015 0:08:43 GMT -5
No way all those guys see 30 mins a game. I say DSR and LJ are the only ones that do. If all of those guys get 30mins, we are playing with just those guys.
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Post by pahoyafan1 on Jul 21, 2015 6:51:32 GMT -5
No way all those guys see 30 mins a game. I say DSR and LJ are the only ones that do. If all of those guys get 30mins, we are playing with just those guys. You're right Dense that may be stretching it; however, I can see that group as a whole consuming 140 of the possible 160 minutes at the 1 thru 4 positions. That would be 28 minutes per player... individually DSR and Cope will probably be the only two to average over 30 per game with one of either LJ or Tre approaching that number...
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