EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,858
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 27, 2015 19:40:22 GMT -5
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,319
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Post by tashoya on Mar 27, 2015 19:55:41 GMT -5
Bing!
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 27, 2015 20:03:22 GMT -5
The more things change. . .
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,392 
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 27, 2015 23:50:53 GMT -5
Man, that was cold bringing that thread up!  |
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 28, 2015 9:17:45 GMT -5
Nice. As they say the proof is in the pudding. |
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 28, 2015 9:31:30 GMT -5
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Post by Buckets on Mar 28, 2015 10:06:31 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty interesting post. The way I see it, the job of college "coach" encompasses the NBA jobs of coach (developing and managing talent), GM (acquiring), and scout (finding). I think III is very good at the last two, identifying and getting talent given the program's inherent shortcomings, and he's pretty good at developing talent, but in terms of high major coaches he's pretty average at managing / getting the best results out of the talent available.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,858
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 28, 2015 10:31:17 GMT -5
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 28, 2015 10:35:19 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty interesting post. The way I see it, the job of college "coach" encompasses the NBA jobs of coach (developing and managing talent), GM (acquiring), and scout (finding). I think III is very good at the last two, identifying and getting talent given the program's inherent shortcomings, and he's pretty good at developing talent, but in terms of high major coaches he's pretty average at managing / getting the best results out of the talent available. Just curious. . .what is the difference between "developing talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty good," and "getting the best results out of the talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty average?" I don't see much of a difference in the two categories, although I could well be wrong. |
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Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
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Post by Buckets on Mar 28, 2015 12:04:48 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty interesting post. The way I see it, the job of college "coach" encompasses the NBA jobs of coach (developing and managing talent), GM (acquiring), and scout (finding). I think III is very good at the last two, identifying and getting talent given the program's inherent shortcomings, and he's pretty good at developing talent, but in terms of high major coaches he's pretty average at managing / getting the best results out of the talent available. Just curious. . .what is the difference between "developing talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty good," and "getting the best results out of the talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty average?" I don't see much of a difference in the two categories, although I could well be wrong. Developing individual talent, which is generally more a multi year project versus getting the most out of the fixed group of talent (e.g. exploiting mismatches at a game level, getting the most of a given assembly of guys on offense and defense). An example on the latter, I'm a Celtics fan, and Brad Stevens is going to take a bottom five collection of NBA talent to the playoffs because he is extraordinary at it. Also given that the post was written in 2012, I think Hollis Thompson is a good example of a very talented player who didn't produce as much as it should have in his time here. |
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 28, 2015 12:23:39 GMT -5
Just curious. . .what is the difference between "developing talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty good," and "getting the best results out of the talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty average?" I don't see much of a difference in the two categories, although I could well be wrong. Developing individual talent, which is generally more a multi year project versus getting the most out of the fixed group of talent (e.g. exploiting mismatches at a game level, getting the most of a given assembly of guys on offense and defense). An example on the latter, I'm a Celtics fan, and Brad Stevens is going to take a bottom five collection of NBA talent to the playoffs because he is extraordinary at it. Also given that the post was written in 2012, I think Hollis Thompson is a good example of a very talented player who didn't produce as much as it should have in his time here. Hollis is one of the few sharpshooters III has recruited that I think was really successful in that role. Had he improved on his ability to create his own offense in other ways since moving on to the NBA I'd buy it. But really he's exactly the same guy he was here, a 3 and D wing. He'll stick in the league primarily on his ability to the hit the 3 and Philly knows that. On a team where every single player is on the trading block, he's stuck around because his shooting is off such incredible value. |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 28, 2015 12:32:43 GMT -5
Just curious. . .what is the difference between "developing talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty good," and "getting the best results out of the talent," at which you rate JT3 as being "pretty average?" I don't see much of a difference in the two categories, although I could well be wrong. Developing individual talent, which is generally more a multi year project versus getting the most out of the fixed group of talent (e.g. exploiting mismatches at a game level, getting the most of a given assembly of guys on offense and defense). An example on the latter, I'm a Celtics fan, and Brad Stevens is going to take a bottom five collection of NBA talent to the playoffs because he is extraordinary at it. Also given that the post was written in 2012, I think Hollis Thompson is a good example of a very talented player who didn't produce as much as it should have in his time here. So, getting the best out of talent is really an individual ingame coaching issue predicated on match ups and the group of players on the floor at a given time, as compared to a longer period. Got it. Thanks for the clarification. |
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,333
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 28, 2015 14:00:01 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty interesting post. The way I see it, the job of college "coach" encompasses the NBA jobs of coach (developing and managing talent), GM (acquiring), and scout (finding). I think III is very good at the last two, identifying and getting talent given the program's inherent shortcomings, and he's pretty good at developing talent, but in terms of high major coaches he's pretty average at managing / getting the best results out of the talent available. I dont really understand the "inherent shortcomings" JTIII has to overcome. I'll give you our practice facilities have been subpar (though not for much longer), but we are spending as much on our program as every other school not named Kentucky, North Carolina, Louisville, etc. We spend more than many Power 5 state schools do on our program. Does Villanova have a competitive advantage over us? Xavier? Gonzaga? Providence? Dayton? I don't see it. They seem to be getting recruits and/or developing them. I'm not saying JTIII isn't delivering high level recruits, I guess I just don't get the credit he gets as if he is working miracles and is at a MAAC school landing 4 star players... |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 28, 2015 17:50:13 GMT -5
You can't minimize the impact of the "subpar" facilities up to this point, when recruiting against the lies of Kentucky, North Carolina, Louisville et al. A significant component of the basketball budget is for the rental cost at Verizon Center; all of these other schools have their own on-campus facility (except, of the schools you named, Providence).
These shortcomings will be a thing of the past when the Thompson Center opens. Up to now, though, it has not been an even playing field with the other schools.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,333
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 28, 2015 18:07:44 GMT -5
Maybe I am. At least it should be a non-issue going forward...
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 28, 2015 18:22:57 GMT -5
This was actually a pretty interesting post. The way I see it, the job of college "coach" encompasses the NBA jobs of coach (developing and managing talent), GM (acquiring), and scout (finding). I think III is very good at the last two, identifying and getting talent given the program's inherent shortcomings, and he's pretty good at developing talent, but in terms of high major coaches he's pretty average at managing / getting the best results out of the talent available. I dont really understand the "inherent shortcomings" JTIII has to overcome. I'll give you our practice facilities have been subpar (though not for much longer), but we are spending as much on our program as every other school not named Kentucky, North Carolina, Louisville, etc. We spend more than many Power 5 state schools do on our program. Does Villanova have a competitive advantage over us? Xavier? Gonzaga? Providence? Dayton? I don't see it. They seem to be getting recruits and/or developing them. I'm not saying JTIII isn't delivering high level recruits, I guess I just don't get the credit he gets as if he is working miracles and is at a MAAC school landing 4 star players... The amount we spend is a bit deceiving given the HUGE chunk we spend on the Verizon Center. Academics is obviously another big one. We no doubt make exceptions for athletes but there are only so many corners you can cut. |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
Member is Online
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Post by TC on Mar 29, 2015 14:46:00 GMT -5
I read that thread, patted myself on the back, and told myself, "Damn, TC, you really brought the fire to that thread!" BTW, Hoya super fan HoyaSpirit has made like 8 posts since dropping that turd on Hoyatalk. |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 29, 2015 14:48:05 GMT -5
I read that thread, patted myself on the back, and told myself, "Damn, TC, you really brought the fire to that thread!" BTW, Hoya super fan HoyaSpirit has made like 8 posts since dropping that turd on Hoyatalk. Maybe he believes in quality, not quantity? |
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