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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 5, 2015 11:26:57 GMT -5
Which, if this is the case and the Big East is nothing more than a mid-major conference with no ability to produce a national title contender, then there is no way our present situation with a $2.8 million coach, a 20,000 seat arena and FOX cable contract is sustainable beyond about 2 years. We either have to upgrade as a basketball only member of the ACC or punt and take our programs to a conference of our academic peers-the Ivy League. Or win. Did you miss the part about the NCAA requiring schools to have ALL of their programs in the same conference with the exception of football? Or the part about Georgetown being a leader in planning and creating a basketball-centric conference with a long-term model for development and growth?
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Apr 5, 2015 11:34:58 GMT -5
That is where we disagree TC...you expect winning 2 games even in the NIT/NCAA as an insane expectation even if it has gone 2 Presidential terms as acceptable. There is big difference between winning 2 consecutive games and winning 6 consecutive for a championship. Those Kentucky teams are still made up of 18 to 19 years old competing against other NBA level talent once they get to the Final Four. Is there ever a point for you when a consecutive occurrence stops being a crap shoot? I think to expect to make the Sweet 16 every year as some her do, is in fact pretty lofty. The longest most recent streak was Ohio St with 4 from 2010-2013. That's it. 4 trips. They lost twice in the sweet 16, once in the elite 8 and once in the final 4. After that they had a first round exit and they lost in the round of 32 this year. I'd say in years when we are ranked inside the top 20, we should expect to have a good shot to make the Sweet 16. It won't always happen but it should more often than not. It hasn't and that's disappointing. But in years when we aren't (ie this year) that shouldn't be the expectation just because the front of our jersey says Georgetown on it. There will be 2 number 1 seeds playing for the Champioship, the 7 seed that made their way to the Final 4 got blitzed by 20! Izzo is a tournament magician but even he could only make so much magic happen. There are only 2 things that bothered me about that Utah game besides losing: 1. For about 34 of 40 mins. the talent on the court and game results was comparable. 2. That game ended as the 3rd straight year the season ended with a double-digit loss. I have not seen a post where someone has stated that Georgetown should make the Sweet 16 every year; everyone agrees that is unreasonable. As fans we should expect to make it to the NIT 3rd Rd or have 1 Sweet Sixteen appearances within an 8 year period. This expectation should not be getting condemned as being ridiculous. My question is why is it considered unreasonable to clamor for a Sweet 16 appearance once every 5 to 8 years or to state that for several years and running these tournament results are sub-par? Finally Happy Easter to you, posters on this board and your families.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Apr 5, 2015 11:42:27 GMT -5
I like Wisconsin over Duke and will give the points. Good luck to you. Damn. I was going to bet Wisconsin too. Also the total is at 140, I am taking the over.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Apr 5, 2015 11:48:26 GMT -5
I think to expect to make the Sweet 16 every year as some her do, is in fact pretty lofty. The longest most recent streak was Ohio St with 4 from 2010-2013. That's it. 4 trips. They lost twice in the sweet 16, once in the elite 8 and once in the final 4. After that they had a first round exit and they lost in the round of 32 this year. I'd say in years when we are ranked inside the top 20, we should expect to have a good shot to make the Sweet 16. It won't always happen but it should more often than not. It hasn't and that's disappointing. But in years when we aren't (ie this year) that shouldn't be the expectation just because the front of our jersey says Georgetown on it. There will be 2 number 1 seeds playing for the Champioship, the 7 seed that made their way to the Final 4 got blitzed by 20! Izzo is a tournament magician but even he could only make so much magic happen. There are only 2 things that bothered me about that Utah game besides losing: 1. For about 34 of 40 mins. the talent on the court and game results was comparable. 2. That game ended as the 3rd straight year the season ended with a double-digit loss. I have not seen a post where someone has stated that Georgetown should make the Sweet 16 every year; everyone agrees that is unreasonable. As fans we should expect to make it to the NIT 3rd Rd or have 1 Sweet Sixteen appearances within an 8 year period. This expectation should not be getting condemned as being ridiculous. My question is why is it considered unreasonable to clamor for a Sweet 16 appearance once every 5 to 8 years or to state that for several years and running these tournament results are sub-par? Finally Happy Easter to you, posters on this board and your families. I dunno, eagle54 seemed pretty surprised when I provided evidence that consecutive Sweet 16 appearances are actually quite difficult. I think we're arguing semantics. I don't think anyone thinks a Sweet 16 appearance in an 8 year period is ridiculous. I think it's ridiculous to deem the entire season a failure because we don't hit that benchmark. The Utah game, DSR had one of his worsts shooting games as a Hoya, I mean 0/7 from 3? And some of them were pretty wide open. They beat us at the free throw line by a very large margin. Is it a game we could have won? Yes. Am I crushed that we didn't? Only in so far as it ended our season. The final score doesn't parlay how close the game was and anyone who actually took the time to watch it, knows that. I really give zero Editeds what anyone else thinks.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Apr 5, 2015 11:55:53 GMT -5
We only lost to Wisconsin by 3 pts. Just saying.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,775
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 5, 2015 11:59:30 GMT -5
Rest assured whomever the Knicks pick will either be injury plagued or just plain suck. I think they still intend to go with Frederic Weis in the first round again. It worked out so well last time.
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 5, 2015 22:29:11 GMT -5
There are only 2 things that bothered me about that Utah game besides losing: 1. For about 34 of 40 mins. the talent on the court and game results was comparable. 2. That game ended as the 3rd straight year the season ended with a double-digit loss.
I have not seen a post where someone has stated that Georgetown should make the Sweet 16 every year; everyone agrees that is unreasonable. As fans we should expect to make it to the NIT 3rd Rd or have 1 Sweet Sixteen appearances within an 8 year period. This expectation should not be getting condemned as being ridiculous. My question is why is it considered unreasonable to clamor for a Sweet 16 appearance once every 5 to 8 years or to state that for several years and running these tournament results are sub-par? Finally Happy Easter to you, posters on this board and your families. Did it bother you that Michigan St lost by 20 in the final four?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2015 22:39:45 GMT -5
There are only 2 things that bothered me about that Utah game besides losing: 1. For about 34 of 40 mins. the talent on the court and game results was comparable. 2. That game ended as the 3rd straight year the season ended with a double-digit loss. We intentionally fouled at the end of the game which increased the margin of the loss - for that reason, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a double-digit loss.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Apr 6, 2015 8:59:10 GMT -5
Great to talk about the tournament and the teams in it. But I get a little upset when we start comparing JT3 with these tournament coaches. Folks, those coaches are playing with a much stronger hand than we have. One simple fact. In the last 30 years (since the GU, Nova! st John's) Final Four 120 teams have made it to the Final four. Of those 7, yes 7, have been small, private schools (Duke excluded). We just have to accept the fact that swimming in this pond is brutal. unless we get lucky again and land a guy like Roy Hibbert who is not heavily recruited but develops into a first round pick we will have to settle for the occasional BE championship and maybe a run to the sweet 16 or elite 8. Not saying that I don't hope for more every year but I'm not going to knock JT3 for not getting us there. Aren't there enough other threads for you to bring up this crap? Probably but watching the tournament every year just drives home to me how good - and deep - Final Four teams are and how difficult it has to be for a school with our size, academic standards, facilities, and alumni base to compete with them. Especially when I see in this and other threads people complaining about JT3 and how our program stinks. Like I said only 7 small private schools like ours have made the final four in the last 30 years. But getting back to the tournament. Defense wins games and Dukes is great. So I pick Duke in a 68-63 squeaker. Also, as a Knicks fan I think the best NBA caliber player in the country right now is Decker. That's who they should take if he is available. In fact, if Wisconsin has any chance of winning Decker will have to play the game of his life (and he can).
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 6, 2015 9:05:54 GMT -5
Obviously, the game can go lots of different ways, but I think this one most likely comes down to fouls. Okafor v. Kaminsky. Dekker v. Winslow. They'll be matched up a fair amount. All four guys can shoot and, thus, require tight guarding. And all four guys can penetrate aggressively. So, all four are able to draw fouls (cheap or otherwise) and, thus, all four guys can get in early foul trouble.
Duke completely outclassed Michigan State, but in the two games before that, they won in no small measure because they got the opposing team's stars in foul trouble. (Wright for Utah; both of Gonzaga's bigs.) I'm not a "this is a Duke conspiracy and they get all the calls" kind of guy. So, I think the odds are that the foul bug affects Duke in this game and Wisconsin wins a competitive, but not one possession, game.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 6, 2015 9:10:01 GMT -5
Quigs, you can't exclude Duke for convenience sake. Also, they aren't deep at all. 8 scholly players. One senior, Cook. Two juniors in Plumlee the third and least talented and Jefferson. They will lose between 3 to four of those guys this year (4 if Tyus goes). They've got two top 30 recruits committed and maybe one more on the late signee side. They will probably be thin next year too. The difference is they are capable of pulling a number one class or two to three 5 star type guys because of their past success and we haven't done that on the recruiting trail.
Also, Wisconsin wins this. Kaminsky will get a ton on Okafor. Dekker can check Winslow and the underappreciated guys like Showalter, Dukan, Gasser & Koenig will get it done. I also think Ryan is a better coach then K.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 6, 2015 9:10:38 GMT -5
Aren't there enough other threads for you to bring up this crap? Probably but watching the tournament every year just drives home to me how good - and deep - Final Four teams are and how difficult it has to be for a school with our size, academic standards, facilities, and alumni base to compete with them. Especially when I see in this and other threads people complaining about JT3 and how our program stinks. Like I said only 7 small private schools like ours have made the final four in the last 30 years. But getting back to the tournament. Defense wins games and Dukes is great. So I pick Duke in a 68-63 squeaker. Also, as a Knicks fan I think the best NBA caliber player in the country right now is Decker. That's who they should take if he is available. In fact, if Wisconsin has any chance of winning Decker will have to play the game of his life (and he can). I understand the point, but I think it's more a factor that there aren't very many private schools with any sort of basketball heritage (Northwestern doesn't count) playing high-level men's basketball. If there were tons of "us," I'd agree. But I think it's more a factor of there being more big football schools in the mix. Given the randomness of the tournament, just having the highest percentage of highly seeded teams means you're going to get the vast majority of Final Four berths and, thus, titles. I mean, Gonzaga was a game away this year. That's one "small, private school" out of the final eight. That's probably the same proportion as appeared in the tournament, a similar proportion as in Division I as a whole, and probably about the same proportion in terms of "big-time" programs (however you define it). Butler has been to two championship games in the past six years alone (with one of them being a one possession game). There's going to be outliers year-to-year in which more or fewer small, private schools advance. But I don't think it's generally out of proportion.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Apr 6, 2015 10:00:42 GMT -5
Aren't there enough other threads for you to bring up this crap? ... Defense wins games and Dukes is great. So I pick Duke in a 68-63 squeaker. Also, as a Knicks fan I think the best NBA caliber player in the country right now is Decker. That's who they should take if he is available. In fact, if Wisconsin has any chance of winning Decker will have to play the game of his life (and he can). Really? So, do you think Duke's defense is better than the other team that lost in the semi-finals? Opponents averaged less than 55 points a game versus Kentucky. You had to score over 70 points to have a shot at beating Kentucky. They gave up that many but THREE times this season and Saturday was the only loss. Overall, the Wildcats were third in the NCAA in points allowed per game and first in defensive FG %, allowing teams to make but 36% of their shots. The Blue Devils weren't even the best defensive squad in the ACC. That was Virginia, which saw its chances in the postseason diminished by injuries.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 6, 2015 11:08:52 GMT -5
... Defense wins games and Dukes is great. So I pick Duke in a 68-63 squeaker. Also, as a Knicks fan I think the best NBA caliber player in the country right now is Decker. That's who they should take if he is available. In fact, if Wisconsin has any chance of winning Decker will have to play the game of his life (and he can). Really? So, do you think Duke's defense is better than the other team that lost in the semi-finals? Opponents averaged less than 55 points a game versus Kentucky. You had to score over 70 points to have a shot at beating Kentucky. They gave up that many but THREE times this season and Saturday was the only loss. Overall, the Wildcats were third in the NCAA in points allowed per game and first in defensive FG %, allowing teams to make but 36% of their shots. The Blue Devils weren't even the best defensive squad in the ACC. That was Virginia, which saw its chances in the postseason diminished by injuries. I think he was just saying that Duke's defense is better than Wisconsin's defense, so he likes Duke in this particular game. Anyway, Duke's defense has been terrific for the past five games. They started the tournament in the 30s (I think) in terms of defensive efficiency, and now they're 12th. They were in the 70s as recently as the end of February. I know Pomeroy takes recency into account in some fashion, so the 12th number counts the tournament games extra already. But that's a huge jump in a short time, so to do that, it likely means that in their last handful of games they are as defensively efficient as any team in the country right now. Better than Kentucky? Maybe not, but still pretty darned good.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 6, 2015 11:33:21 GMT -5
The key will be how much help Duke can give Okafor on Kaminsky. With his variety of moves, especially the up-and-under, Frank could very well get Okafor in early foul trouble, which would hamstring Duke's offense. If he stays out of foul trouble, and Duke shoots well from 3, it will be very tough for Wisky.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 6, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -5
The takeaway I've gotten from Wisconsin's wins over Kentucky and Arizona is that you cannot beat them if you waste a lot of offensive possessions. Both UK and Arizona had multiple stretches where they wasted 3-4 possessions in a row by taking long 2 pointers, quick contested three pointers and settling for isos at the end of the shot clock. No team scores on every possession, but Wisconsin doesn't waste possessions, so if you start adding wasted possessions to the excusable possessions that come up empty (like, say, Towns making a good post move that rolls off) you will fall behind, because Wisconsin doesn't waste very many possessions and they will keep scoring, even against a good defense.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 11:41:19 GMT -5
Aren't there enough other threads for you to bring up this crap? Probably but watching the tournament every year just drives home to me how good - and deep - Final Four teams are and how difficult it has to be for a school with our size, academic standards, facilities, and alumni base to compete with them. Especially when I see in this and other threads people complaining about JT3 and how our program stinks. Like I said only 7 small private schools like ours have made the final four in the last 30 years. But getting back to the tournament. Defense wins games and Dukes is great. So I pick Duke in a 68-63 squeaker. Also, as a Knicks fan I think the best NBA caliber player in the country right now is Decker. That's who they should take if he is available. In fact, if Wisconsin has any chance of winning Decker will have to play the game of his life (and he can). No sir…. You’re my man Quigs but that wouldn’t be a good look
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Apr 6, 2015 11:57:41 GMT -5
There are only 2 things that bothered me about that Utah game besides losing: 1. For about 34 of 40 mins. the talent on the court and game results was comparable. 2. That game ended as the 3rd straight year the season ended with a double-digit loss.
I have not seen a post where someone has stated that Georgetown should make the Sweet 16 every year; everyone agrees that is unreasonable. As fans we should expect to make it to the NIT 3rd Rd or have 1 Sweet Sixteen appearances within an 8 year period. This expectation should not be getting condemned as being ridiculous. My question is why is it considered unreasonable to clamor for a Sweet 16 appearance once every 5 to 8 years or to state that for several years and running these tournament results are sub-par? Finally Happy Easter to you, posters on this board and your families. Did it bother you that Michigan St lost by 20 in the final four? Yes. It did bother me. As a positive, Michigan State played above their #7 Seed to get to a Final Four and the loss which was bad, did happen in a Final Four game.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,386
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Post by drquigley on Apr 6, 2015 14:51:15 GMT -5
Sorry YaBoy but Decker is solid and looks like he should be playing in the NBA today. Plus as we've seen with the NBA game 3 point shooting is now A MUST. Decker is one of the few big men I've seen this year that can do all the big men stuff and still nail the 3.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 6, 2015 14:56:33 GMT -5
Time will tell on Dekker...
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