Football/Basketball...N.B.E. Pecking Order...

[Buckeye70]

As a guy who is a fellow Big East alumnus and one who
covers college football on line, what concerns me these
days is the warp speed with which the Bowl
Championship Series people are trying to drive a wedge
between their member schools and the Rest of Us.

It raises more red flags than a Mao revival. But it also
brings with it a chance for schools like Georgetown to
seriously evaluate their futures.

What will the New Big East mean? I think we all agree
there will be a split between the I-A football schools
looking to preserve their collective tookises within the
B.C.S. structure ... and the others.

My sense is this split is coming sooner rather than later
and my question to you good Hoyafolk is where do you
think Georgetown's future lies.

I know the question(s) have been asked in other forms,
but here are some quick points to consider.

1. FOOTBALL AS ATHLETICS ENGINE. It is simply that
way on the major universities' campuses. Football
rakes in 3-4 times as much revenue both TVwise and
at the gate as hoops does. Where does Georgetown,
along with places like Villanova in particular, fit in with
this. If it is demonstrably shown there will be a growing
gap between the B.C.S. schools and the rest of D1,
almost assuring a country club atmosphere among a
few select schools and leagues, whither Georgetown?

2. THE NEW EMERGING "CATHOLIC LEAGUE". Never mind
do you want to join it, that's been asked here. But my
question to you is can it survive, given the above
described state-school/heavily endowed (read Duke,
Notre Dame, Boston College, Stanford) private
schools' dominance...large recruiting budgets, state
of the art facilities, etc.?

3. CONCLUSION -- WHAT NEXT? Does I-A football have
any appeal at Georgetown? The subject is getting
hotter by the week at Villanova, although there are
no guarantees that we can reverse the 23-18 decision
not to join with Connecticut (1996) and become part
of Big East football. But Temple's D1A days are virtually
over and everybody but A.D. Bill Bradshaw and coach
Bobby Wallace and SOME (not all) of his players know
it, opening the door a crack for the Wildcats, who have
had periods of some gate success in football, other
times where attendance s*cked.

Anyhow, these appear increasingly to be the options.
Is this non-football league viable in your world? If not,
where does Georgetown head?

Tough questions. Give it a go. Thanks for your time,
I value your input!

Ciao

Buckeye70

[DFW HOYA]

Without going into too much depth at 6:00 am, three brief thoughts:

1. Georgetown University does not have the financial will to lose millions on I-A. The Multi-Sport Facility is being built for the likes of Brown and Cornell, not West Virginia and Louisville. In the end, Villanova faces many of the same issues, thought we can agree to disagree on the scope.

2. The Catholic League is a non-starter for many reasons and it probably won't come to pass because the ACC and their friends at ESPN will find a way to dilute any attempt Big East by I-A football schools to establish a new league.

3. However, if Georgetown does not get its fiscal house in order in the next few years, these issues will pale in comparison.

[2ndRyan]

Re Villanova and 1-A football- where would they play? Villanova has the same type of paranoid neighbors as Georgetown. I don't see how an expanded or new on campus stadium would ever fly. You alluded to the sorry state of Temple football- and I think the administration at "Nova should contemplate how they'd have more success filling the Linc than Temple did the Vet.

As to the future of "basketball" schools like Georgetown and Villanova, there will always be similar institutions- St John's, DePaul, Marquette, Providence with access to basketball talent that will find a way to be competitive nationally. In a world of scholarship limitations and sophomores going pro, it only takes one or two players around whom a decent team and be built.

[RBHoya]

I wish I knew more about the BCS and the internal politics so as to answer your questions more directly... However, I've always been more of a casual college football observer, so I'm not going to take too serious a stab at your questions, even though I'd like to.

I think theres a certain number of years before the conference can "split" so we'll have to see what happens between now and then. For the Catholic league-- would Notre Dame be a member, so they could stay a football indy, or would joining a major conference be necessary/beneficial for them as far as BCS money goes? I really don't know, but I think a basketball conference headlined by Georgetown, Villanova, Notre Dame, and St. Johns could most certainly succeed. Recruitings sorta up and down, but you guys are hitting a peak and we're right behind you (IMO), and St. John's isnt far behind that. I like the idea of a conference with some real identity as opposed to the current hodge-podge format, and I dont think that over the long haul you'll see any marked difference in success between the Catholic schools and the Non Catholic schools (it wont be all State Schools at the top of the conference and all Catholic schools at the bottom or vice versa). Thus the conference splitting along football lines ought not have too much effect on the amount of bids we get for the NCAA tournament, and I'm sure the network coverage we'd get would be comparable to what we get now (and it'd fluctuate based on our successes, just like now). I dont think things in the New League would be all that much different from the current league, though maybe thats naive on my part.


As for DI football... I dont think its for us. We're currently sinking a big chunk of money into building a new MultiSport Facility, which will be the home field for our football team. While I think we're all pretty excited about it, it's definitly safe to say that the facility is intended to be an excellent facility for patriot/ivy level opponents, not D1 powerhouses. We don't have room for any sort of stadium on campus, and the idea of playing football off campus doesn't really seem to excite anyone. Football on a huge scale just isn't really for us, IMHO.

I know Nova has flirted with the idea of going DI in football, but I don't know how that would work stadium-wise either.

All in all, I'm not too concerned about the BCS. I'm not afraid of any impact it could potentially have on Georgetown hoops. If we keep recruiting good ballplayers and keep winning games, we'll be successful no matter what else is going on in the world of college sports.

[SFHoya99]

1) Will a split happen?

No clue. If football fans had their say, it would happen now. Who knows what the landscape looks like in five years, and how the league operates over the next five.

Inevitability is a strong word.

2) Can a "Catholic" league survive as a top-tier league?

I assume you're asking aside about a league that is not football or I-AA at best. GU and many of the other teams are not going I-A. That's a non-starter in 99% of the future scenarios.

My answer is an emphatic "Yes." But they are going to have to be smarter and commit to it.

Can a football school that makes a lot of cash off football commit more money? Certainly, but there are diminishing returns.

You can only build so many new arenas, and the Big East will be mostly constituted of private schools in urban areas. Those that should be able to fund-raise $30M like GU, Nova, etc. will have to do so. Combine that with access to something like MCI, and what can another school really spend in facilities? You only need so much. Same with recruiting budgets.

What about paying coaches? Again, there is an edge, but you have to go about it another way. Pay your coach, but also angle for an alumnus, a local...court them like family. Make them part of the community. If you're St. John's, sell NYC. Again, make the returns diminish.

We will always operate on a smaller margin of error. But a few of us will always have the northeast including DC, Philly, Chicago, NYC.

-----------------

The reason why GU is not Stanford or Duke is not because we are Catholic or don't have D-I Football. It's because a) Our University sucks at fund-raising and managing money and b) Our University has never stressed Athletics. We've been more Ivy than power. There is no inherent fatal flaw about the non-DI system. Georgetown can have that. Nova can also, but in some ways has further to go (and in some places, less).

The key, to me, is requiring a commitment upon entering. Georgetown should be let in without a plan and a capital fund. Not a single team can be allowed to slack; we must be merciless because otherwise we'll be the Atlantic 10.

Standarize the sports teams. Georgetown has a fantastic lacrosse team; but there's no BE lacrosse. Time for the other schools to invest. Georgetown swimming sucks? Time to change that.

We have five years (and at least 3) to start getting our house in order. I'd like all 9 or so members of the Big East to be in the Top 100 and preferably Top 75 of the President's Cup by then.

In addition, the league needs to be creative. Every bball game should be on TV locally. The schedules need to be difficult; create those TV matchups.

[Buckeye70]

Great posts, everyone...and thanks!

DFW, John, I can say this too you, we face SOME of
the same issues you do, but not most of them at
this point, because we're in a position to make the
jump upward, have an enlargeable stadium, much
of the infrastructure already in place.

How big could we make the campus stadium? Probably
max would be below 50,000, but we could go up to
row 55-60 on both sides, then eventually put upper
decks on both sides, roughly 25 rows apiece, and
put bleachers in each end zone. To do so would be
to increase to 40,000 on the sidelines, then add
two sets of 3-4,000-seat bleachers in the end zones
to complete the structure.

It would also take creating parking facilities compatible
with what the Township does, which would mean V.U.
would likely use the Syracuse model.

There are those who say we should bang everything
down, including Nevin Field House and build a dome
a la Syracuse, that holds maybe 45,000 for football,
25,000 for hoops. And more than a few say there is
some corp $$$ out there to float much of the cost.

I have no clue at this point, but it IS actively being
discussed and many previously anti-I-A types are
beginning to rally behind this.

2d Ryan, while there are Township issues, as
mentioned above, they're not insurmountable.

Temple football is deader than a Yankee lovefest in
Fenway Park. Period. The Philly area would be in the
market for a I-A program of its own to complement
Penn State (which has a massive following there...
dominant, to be sure) and Notre Dame (duh).

I think we could put 30-35,000 in the Linc with a viable
I-A program with regularity. That would be our base
crowd, and the supplementaries, assuming a 5-year
run that ranged from 6-6 to 9-3, with 2-3 bowl bids,
one or two national rankings, would probably be
anywhere from 5-15,000 a game, giving us a steady
2/3 capacity, I'd think.

Finally to you, Ryan, yes, there will always be room for
"basketball schools like Georgetown and Villanova" and
the others you named. In a perfect world, we might
be able to go up to I-A and still keep the relationship
with all of you.

But unfortunately, I do see this split coming soon. Just
one guy's feelings, but this 16-game sked with some
no-plays is going to drive folks nuts next winter and
there'll be screaming from the shores of the Ohio to
and Lake Michigan to Narragansett Bay, possibly
speeding the breakup process.

RB Hoya: trust me, you do NOT want to know about
the B.C.S. It is populated with some of the classic
snakes of college sports and that is that.

That certain # of years you cite, i.m.o., may be as few
as 3-4-5...even maybe less re: the split. This 16-game
16-team deal is not gonna cut it for a lot of schools,
who will be clamoring for the traditional rivalries to go
twice a year.

I think, both you and John being well-schooled in
Georgetown's traditions and athletic outlook, I can
understand why you might not see I-A football in the
same light as Villanova does.

What I see as a possibility for V.U. is a Boston College-
like emergence. I like what our A.D. is doing right now,
playing it cool and letting things settle down. I like
the way many alumni are waiting in the wings, while
this large fundraising campaign that could result in
4-500 million bucks coming into the University coffers
over the next 4-5 years gets into full swing.

There is a school of thought that B.C. left a private-
school void on the I-A football side, although the 'Cuse
is a private university, too. But I think with a carefully
planned, well-communicated and executed transition,
Villanova may well be able to move its way into football
prominence once again, either at Lincoln Financial Field
or on campus (hopefully the latter).

SF Hoya99, great post. I love your idealistic fire and
think there's a great deal of merit to your points. I
think Georgetown's folks need to hear it full-scale
from your alumni and fanbase that you'd like to see
the CORRECT (not overboard, but certainly intensified)
emphasis on athletics, which includes a strong,
competitive men's basketball team, good women's
sports and at least a well-attended, visible I-AA football
squad playing in front of, say 10-11,000 folks each
Saturday.

I think a Catholic type league with the mentioned
schools will survive, but will it be an Atlantic 10-type
situation or will its member schools be able to funnel
enough revenue into the respective programs to
give it some momentum and make the league the
basketball equivalent to a B.C.S. league and be
nationally competitive year-to-year? I sure hope so.

Guys, great stuff. Thanks again. Hopefully some new
friends will weigh in. Love hearing your ideas.

Buckeye70