Season to Date Observations - 20% Mark

[hoyainspirit]

Dec 1, 2014 23:49:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I had actually meant to add a point on three point shots. We either need to start hitting them at a higher rate, or we need to take less. The 4-13 we had on threes against Butler won't cut it.

I am beginning to get a little worried about our 3 point shooting. Still early, so I'm not panicking yet, but as SF pointed out, we are one of the worst teams in the nation in FT%, 3pt%, and TO%. Fortunately, we don't shoot many 3's. In fact, thus far we shoot fewer than just about every team. Personally, I like our low post game. I don't mind Josh trying to score down low because he's been really good at it thus far.

[jwp91]

Markel was a big loss from behind the 3 point line.

[prhoya]

Dec 2, 2014 8:26:24 GMT -5 calhoya said:

As for offense, I believe it is a combination of playing out of position for too long--the 5 instead of the 4 and also having "weak" hands. He is obviously working out to get stronger and yet seems to get stripped more than most when defenders hack away. He is not able to finish. As for his position, it is unfortunate that the Hoyas did not have the luxury of developing Hopkins as a 4. For whatever reason during his tenure, he has always been needed at the 5 (even as the backup) and there have usually been a number of other options at the 4 (Whittington, Lubick and even Porter). On offense Hopkins still puts the ball on the floor instead of going right up with it. I wonder if his efficiency might improve if he took entry passes and just went straight up with the shot instead of trying to dribble or back in, thereby giving the opponents time to collapse on him and hack away at those hands.

First of all, I agree that, during his years here, Hopkins has been needed at the 5, and still is, whether he prefers it or not. Now, some here have this idea that Hopkins would somehow be better offensively at the 4 than at the 5. Would you please explain? Please point out skills, etc...

[hoyainspirit]

Dec 2, 2014 13:53:53 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 2, 2014 8:26:24 GMT -5 calhoya said:

As for offense, I believe it is a combination of playing out of position for too long--the 5 instead of the 4 and also having "weak" hands. He is obviously working out to get stronger and yet seems to get stripped more than most when defenders hack away. He is not able to finish. As for his position, it is unfortunate that the Hoyas did not have the luxury of developing Hopkins as a 4. For whatever reason during his tenure, he has always been needed at the 5 (even as the backup) and there have usually been a number of other options at the 4 (Whittington, Lubick and even Porter). On offense Hopkins still puts the ball on the floor instead of going right up with it. I wonder if his efficiency might improve if he took entry passes and just went straight up with the shot instead of trying to dribble or back in, thereby giving the opponents time to collapse on him and hack away at those hands.

First of all, I agree that, during his years here, Hopkins has been needed at the 5, and still is, whether he prefers it or not. Now, some here have this idea that Hopkins would somehow be better offensively at the 4 than at the 5. Would you please explain? Please point out skills, etc...

Let me answer that for you. He won't. On offense, our eyes and the stats don't lie regarding Hop. If he would just rebound, play D, and never attempt to make an offensive play unless it's a put back, fast break, or wide open dunk, his value to us would increase tremendously, IMO.

[seaweed]

not to be a dick, but what makes you think Hop can finish a wide open dunk or fast break?

[CaliHoya]

I'll agree with the others that Hopkins has developed on defense and the glass. When not guarding on the perimeter (where he inexplicably still picks up too many fouls), he is a very good defender.

But on offense, he has to be the most frustrating player to watch since I've been a Hoya fan. While he may have decent defensive instincts, he seems to have extremely weak offensive instincts that, at this point, will not be fixed while in a Hoya uniform. He operates like a robot when he gets the ball, not able to change his plan based on what the defender is showing him. As such, he gets blocked more than any player his height ever should. He also manages to draw offensive fouls more than any player should given how much time he's had to learn from these mistakes.

The bottom line is that I am extremely uncomfortable whenever he touches the ball and would prefer we use him sparingly when we need his presence on D. I'd much rather we use the freshman at the four for now since they will easily be a better overall presence by season's end.

[Deleted]

What you have in Hop is a player that provides senior-year Julian Vaughn defense/rebounding (good, not great, and certainly not "one of the best in the nation"), combined with the worst offensive performer in the JT3 era -- playing 25 minutes per game.

He must play less.

[calhoya]

Dec 2, 2014 13:53:53 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Dec 2, 2014 8:26:24 GMT -5 calhoya said:

As for offense, I believe it is a combination of playing out of position for too long--the 5 instead of the 4 and also having "weak" hands. He is obviously working out to get stronger and yet seems to get stripped more than most when defenders hack away. He is not able to finish. As for his position, it is unfortunate that the Hoyas did not have the luxury of developing Hopkins as a 4. For whatever reason during his tenure, he has always been needed at the 5 (even as the backup) and there have usually been a number of other options at the 4 (Whittington, Lubick and even Porter). On offense Hopkins still puts the ball on the floor instead of going right up with it. I wonder if his efficiency might improve if he took entry passes and just went straight up with the shot instead of trying to dribble or back in, thereby giving the opponents time to collapse on him and hack away at those hands.

First of all, I agree that, during his years here, Hopkins has been needed at the 5, and still is, whether he prefers it or not. Now, some here have this idea that Hopkins would somehow be better offensively at the 4 than at the 5. Would you please explain? Please point out skills, etc...

Well I don't think that I said he would be better but only that I wondered if he might. However, let me take a stab at it by saying that I once coached a long, skinny kid with a similar build, though only 6'5". We had no choice but to play him at post. Like Hopkins he had weak hands and limited ball skills, somewhat easily stripped of the ball and often rejected. His senior year another taller post arrived at our high school. I moved our 6'5" player to the power forward slot. Slowly over time he developed a nice soft jumper from 5-8 feet out. He was rarely stripped and often fouled. He also pulled defenders away from the basket and opened up the lane a little more. Now who really knows about Hopkins, but I have watched his free throw shooting and have seen him in limited game action and during warmups at some games last year and he seems to have a nice soft shooting touch in that same range. His FT shooting percentage is currently up about 12% over the prior two years, though the season is still young. I believe that he has the skills to take and hit that short shot. He just is never going to get the opportunity playing in the middle of our offense with his back to the basket. It is a position that is not natural for him and for which he is not particularly suited.

I would never stand in front of the charging horde of those who criticize this kid's offensive skills. I also have regularly criticized his penchant for taking silly fouls or unnecessary fouls (like Trawick). Nevertheless, I think it is a shame he never played at the 4 for any consistent period of time. Unfortunately, that cannot happen as long as Smith is the other post option. Hopkins simply needs to be the backup at that position.

[hoyainspirit]

Dec 2, 2014 15:12:28 GMT -5 @nychoya94 said:

What you have in Hop is a player that provides senior-year Julian Vaughn defense/rebounding (good, not great, and certainly not "one of the best in the nation"), combined with the worst offensive performer in the JT3 era -- playing 25 minutes per game.

He must play less.

Based on the number of rebounds he gets while he is on the floor, especially offensive rebounds, Hopkins is one of the best in college basketball. Thru six games.

[njhoya78]

In no small part, the same negative comments being posted about Mikael Hopkins this year are the same that were posted over the past few years about Nate Lubick (not to pick on Nate here). Are we expecting too much from the power forward position here?

[calhoya]

Dec 2, 2014 16:42:10 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

In no small part, the same negative comments being posted about Mikael Hopkins this year are the same that were posted over the past few years about Nate Lubick (not to pick on Nate here). Are we expecting too much from the power forward position here?

Valid point regarding the power forward position. However, Lubick and Hopkins are night and day in many respects. Lubick was banger but not one to ever try and shoot the ball. Hopkins tries to shoot too much and in my opinion from the wrong position on the floor. I don't have solution for Hopkins, just alot of questions and thoughts. Clearly he has a valuable role to play on defense and rebounding. I was simply stating that I thought he would never become a more complete player on offense by playing the 5.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 16:30:41 GMT -5 hoyainspirit said:

Dec 2, 2014 15:12:28 GMT -5 @nychoya94 said:

What you have in Hop is a player that provides senior-year Julian Vaughn defense/rebounding (good, not great, and certainly not "one of the best in the nation"), combined with the worst offensive performer in the JT3 era -- playing 25 minutes per game.

He must play less.

Based on the number of rebounds he gets while he is on the floor, especially offensive rebounds, Hopkins is one of the best in college basketball. Thru six games.

I wish that were so, but right now his rebounding rates are 15.4% Off Reb, 19.6% Def Reb -- good for 61st and 259th in the country respectively.

Julian's SR numbers were 13.2 and 18.0 after a full BE season. Josh's this year are 18.5 and 17.2, and I don't think anybody's ready to call him a great rebounder.

The sample size is small, but the numbers are also the best of Hop's 4 years. If they don't stay the same (or at least go up a little) during the year, Hop's offensive struggles are going to outweigh whatever he's bringing on defense.

[b52legend]

I think the biggest observation I have is that if we continue to develop, this team actually has the ability to do something when March rolls around. This is in no small part due to the freshman. We didn't know exactly what we had in them, but I don't think it is a stretch at all to say that 3 of our 5 best players are freshman. If they don't show up ready to go like they have, who knows what this season's prospects look like. As is, I'm optimistic. Things to work on, but the potential is there.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2014 18:09:59 GMT -5 b52legend said:

I think the biggest observation I have is that if we continue to develop, this team actually has the ability to do something when March rolls around. This is in no small part due to the freshman. We didn't know exactly what we had in them, but I don't think it is a stretch at all to say that 3 of our 5 best players are freshman. If they don't show up ready to go like they have, who knows what this season's prospects look like. As is, I'm optimistic. Things to work on, but the potential is there.

This is definitely what the year's going to be all about.

White, Ike, LJ, and Tre have all had moments in the young season to show that they're going to be big producers in their time at GU -- which I think is pretty amazing 6 games in.

The sooner they can do it on a consistent basis, the closer we get to becoming a great team.

[SFHoya99]

Dec 2, 2014 16:42:10 GMT -5 njhoya78 said:

In no small part, the same negative comments being posted about Mikael Hopkins this year are the same that were posted over the past few years about Nate Lubick (not to pick on Nate here). Are we expecting too much from the power forward position here?

No, we just haven't had strong PFs in a while.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Listen, guys, this very young team just went to toe-to-toe with Florida, Wisconsin, and Butler--all ranked except for Butler, who should be somewhere in the top 20. We beat florida, loss to the others by less than 5 points--what more do you want from this team at this point in the season? Really?! I believe we are going to be a great team--yes, I said great, not good. If we lose two back-to-back during Big East play, I would be concerned. But right now, all of our players deserve a pat on the back (or the back of the head) for the performance they have turned in thus far. Having said that, Am I happy that we had those two losses? No! However, if the ball had bounced differently on a few of those shots and we had played consistent defense, we would have brought down the #2 ranked team in the country.

Folks, look how bad Wisconsin beat up on Oklahoma. What are they ranked? Point is, though, they are a very good team. With all of the great shooters and ball handlers we have on this team, mark my word, we are going to go places, especially in the Big East. And leave Hops alone. He has had to rotate between two spots for two-three years now. give him a few games to put it all together as the forward.

[tashoya]

Dec 2, 2014 19:19:07 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Listen, guys, this very young team just went to toe-to-toe with Florida, Wisconsin, and Butler--all ranked except for Butler, who should be somewhere in the top 20. We beat florida, loss to the others by less than 5 points--what more do you want from this team at this point in the season? Really?! I believe we are going to be a great team--yes, I said great, not good. If we lose two back-to-back during Big East play, I would be concerned. But right now, all of our players deserve a pat on the back (or the back of the head) for the performance they have turned in thus far. Having said that, Am I happy that we had those two losses? No! However, if the ball had bounced differently on a few of those shots and we had played consistent defense, we would have brought down the #2 ranked team in the country.

Folks, look how bad Wisconsin beat up on Oklahoma. What are they ranked? Point is, though, they are a very good team. With all of the great shooters and ball handlers we have on this team, mark my word, we are going to go places, especially in the Big East. And leave Hops alone. He has had to rotate between two spots for two-three years now. give him a few games to put it all together as the forward.

I agree with some of this though that loss to Butler was nothing of which to be proud. And we don't have great shooters or great ball handlers. DSR will come around and he will likely be great but he's the only great shooter on the team. We have some good ball handlers. No great ones. That said, we don't necessarily need more "great" shooters or handlers with what we do already have.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Dec 2, 2014 20:40:14 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Dec 2, 2014 19:19:07 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Listen, guys, this very young team just went to toe-to-toe with Florida, Wisconsin, and Butler--all ranked except for Butler, who should be somewhere in the top 20. We beat florida, loss to the others by less than 5 points--what more do you want from this team at this point in the season? Really?! I believe we are going to be a great team--yes, I said great, not good. If we lose two back-to-back during Big East play, I would be concerned. But right now, all of our players deserve a pat on the back (or the back of the head) for the performance they have turned in thus far. Having said that, Am I happy that we had those two losses? No! However, if the ball had bounced differently on a few of those shots and we had played consistent defense, we would have brought down the #2 ranked team in the country.

Folks, look how bad Wisconsin beat up on Oklahoma. What are they ranked? Point is, though, they are a very good team. With all of the great shooters and ball handlers we have on this team, mark my word, we are going to go places, especially in the Big East. And leave Hops alone. He has had to rotate between two spots for two-three years now. give him a few games to put it all together as the forward.

I agree with some of this though that loss to Butler was nothing of which to be proud. And we don't have great shooters or great ball handlers. DSR will come around and he will likely be great but he's the only great shooter on the team. We have some good ball handlers. No great ones. That said, we don't necessarily need more "great" shooters or handlers with what we do already have.

I disagree. All of our freshmen can handle the ball. Paul and Ike are good solid shooters--I compromised on the word "great".

[tashoya]

Dec 2, 2014 21:06:02 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Dec 2, 2014 20:40:14 GMT -5 tashoya said:

I agree with some of this though that loss to Butler was nothing of which to be proud. And we don't have great shooters or great ball handlers. DSR will come around and he will likely be great but he's the only great shooter on the team. We have some good ball handlers. No great ones. That said, we don't necessarily need more "great" shooters or handlers with what we do already have.

I disagree. All of our freshmen can handle the ball. Paul and Ike are good solid shooters--I compromised on the word "great".

So then you disagree with what? I disagreed with the use of "great" and the Butler loss being a silver lining kind of loss.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Dec 2, 2014 21:14:27 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Dec 2, 2014 21:06:02 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

I disagree. All of our freshmen can handle the ball. Paul and Ike are good solid shooters--I compromised on the word "great".

So then you disagree with what? I disagreed with the use of "great" and the Butler loss being a silver lining kind of loss.

I disagree with you on the Butler loss, specifically. I am not saying the loss to Butler was something to be proud off. What I did say--and I maintain--is that Butler is a legit top 20 basketball team and thus worthy of more respect than you give them credit for. And--I was actually talking about the team from a growth perspective. In other words, the games in the Bahamas will definitely serve to fine-tune this team, help us grow. Maybe we will even see Ike being utilized more in the future. My point exactly: Don't underestimate the games played in the Bahamas; they were a serious test for us and served as a barometer as to where we are to date.