Gtown Top 10 teams left out of Dance

[homjm]

Anyone see this? I didn't think Hibbert had a good year by any stretch...

cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8358699

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Though he did have a couple of BE Rookie of the Week performances, and won us the game against ND...

[the_way]

homjm said:

Anyone see this? I didn't think Hibbert had a good year by any stretch...

cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8358699

Hibbert had a solid year. What are you talking about.

[HOYAPLAYA]

homjm said:

Anyone see this? I didn't think Hibbert had a good year by any stretch...

cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8358699

It wasn't a great year, but it was a good year for 7'2 freshman that was considered a project. Especially when you consider the great P word that he showed flashes of during the season: POTENTIAL.

[homjm]

It was not a good year. Everytime he touched the ball I cringed. JTIII didnt even play him at the end of the season. Granted he's 7'2 and could develop into a Dikembe type player but I don't see the natural defensive instincts in him. He has a lot of work to be done.

[SFHoya99]

Yeah, it sucked when our fans outcringed the Notre Dame fans, and the referees gave the Irish Seven "Cringe Bonus Points," thus winning the game.

Oh, wait...that's the alternate universe where the number of times you cringe has any effect on the game.

[RBHoya]

SFHoya99 said:

Yeah, it sucked when our fans outcringed the Notre Dame fans, and the referees gave the Irish Seven "Cringe Bonus Points," thus winning the game.

Oh, wait...that's the alternate universe where the number of times you cringe has any effect on the game.

What a peculiar sarcastic comment

Anyhow, I thought Roy looked better in the middle of the year than he did at the end. He looked pretty lost in both NIT games and did not see much PT during the BET. He showed flashes of potential, looked pretty good in both ND games and a few other times throughout the year. However, I agree that he still has a long way to go. Jeff is in a position to be one of the best players in America the next few years. The writer implies that Hibbert is "this good", as in that he's one of the conference's better players already. He isn't. I don't like his chances of starting again next year either. Of course he showed some flashes and thats good, no one is implying he doesn't have great potential, but if you read the article as implying that Hibbert has proven himself as a freshman and will be a top player in the years to come...... well then that is a bit of a reach in my opinion.

[Cambridge]

How many 7'2" freshmen had better years in the Big East? In the country?

[SFHoya99]

Negative evaluations of Roy generally stem from what i'd call "playground evaluations." People like guards. They like players that look good when doing things -- like Kobe Bryant. If it looks effortless, its good.

Unfortunately, Roy looks pretty bad. But he's a much better player than that. He doesn't jump much, but he was the best rebounder on the team. In several games, he absolutely shut down the opposition's inside game. People stayed out of the lane.

Does he have weaknesses? Yes. But I think Doyel was justified. How many BE freshman were better? Rudy, Jeff, Ron Ramon, maybe Cerasoli? How many freshman have higher ceilings? Probably just Jeff and Rudy.

[KHoyaNYC]

CambridgeHoya said:

How many 7'2" freshmen had better years in the Big East? In the country?

Better yet, how many 7'2" college players are there period?!?!?!?!

[Cambridge]

SFHoya99 said:

Negative evaluations of Roy generally stem from what i'd call "playground evaluations." People like guards. They like players that look good when doing things -- like Kobe Bryant. If it looks effortless, its good.

Unfortunately, Roy looks pretty bad. But he's a much better player than that. He doesn't jump much, but he was the best rebounder on the team. In several games, he absolutely shut down the opposition's inside game. People stayed out of the lane.

Does he have weaknesses? Yes. But I think Doyel was justified. How many BE freshman were better? Rudy, Jeff, Ron Ramon, maybe Cerasoli? How many freshman have higher ceilings? Probably just Jeff and Rudy.

Bingo

[homjm]

Mr. Sarcasm, you are a moron. The fact that he is 7'2'' doesn't mean anything. Yinka Dare? George Murasan? Alexander Koul? He has potential because of his size but hasn't really shown me anything. I know we are all Gtown fans, but let's be realistic about it. I don't think he will start next season. I agree with the person that said that. As for better freshman in the BE? Well, the frosh in the BE were pretty bad this year. Aside from Gay and Jeff and maybe Lowry from nova, the rest were bad. The fact that more and more HS players bypass college, means guys like Hibbert will with conf rookies of the week once in a while.

[FLHoya]

SFHoya99 said:

Negative evaluations of Roy generally stem from what i'd call "playground evaluations."

You mean like:

"ROY!! YOU'RE SEVEN FOOT TWO!! WHY DON'T YOU DUNK THE BALL??!!??"

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that one at a game this year.

[SFHoya99]

Mr. Sarcasm, you are a moron.

Alright then. You got me.

The fact that he is 7'2'' doesn't mean anything. Yinka Dare? George Murasan? Alexander Koul? He has potential because of his size but hasn't really shown me anything.

1. I never mentioned 7'2".
2. Dare & Koul were very effective college players. They were not good NBA players, but since I'm a Georgetown fan, until we join the NBA...
3. Muresan was a pretty effective player, except his giganticism eventually broke him.

I know we are all Gtown fans, but let's be realistic about it. I don't think he will start next season. I agree with the person that said that.

You said he did not have a "good year." Roy was inconsistent, but he wasn't bad. Your appreciation of bad seems to be limited to the fact that he's awkward. That's interesting. Defense and rebounding count in real basketball, though.

He scored 5 ppg in 15 minutes, rebounded well, defended well. He did turn the ball over too much, and was a bad matchup at times. For a young freshman big man, that's a good year. And there's potential there.

Roy had about the same stats per minute as Ed Nelson, former ACC freshman of the year, and two (three?) years older.

As for better freshman in the BE? Well, the frosh in the BE were pretty bad this year. Aside from Gay and Jeff and maybe Lowry from nova, the rest were bad. The fact that more and more HS players bypass college, means guys like Hibbert will with conf rookies of the week once in a while.

Who cares? Those players that jumped aren't coming back. Now Roy has to stand up to Patrick Ewing to have had a good freshman year?

In the end, what's true is that we had a tall freshman whom half the folks here said the guy was a stiff; he needed to redshirt; he'd never be better than Craig Forth -- what's true is that Roy had a pretty good freshman year.

Just because he looks goofy sometimes doesn't mean he doesn't contribute to the team winning.

[MCIGuy]

For those of you dogging Roy...you try being 7'2 and used to playing in the pivot only to be asked to play in the high post for a Princeton offense you have had zero experience with. Unlike Jeff who played far more on the perimeter in high school and in summer leagues, Roy spent 95% of his time in the paint. He had a solid year and showed flashes of brilliance. Give him a break.

[RBHoya]

CambridgeHoya said:

How many 7'2" freshmen had better years in the Big East? In the country?

It isn't fair to compare him only to 7'2 players, because there are only a handful of others in the country in any class. A better comparison might be Freshman in general or even Freshman big men.

It's all semantics anyway, because all we're debating is if the writers word choice was worthy of describing Roy. I personally dont think Roy is "this good" right now, because when he says 'this good right now' or 'this good already' (I forget which), it implies that both Jeff and Roy are playing as well as upper classmen, even though they were freshmen. Jeff certainly is. But Roy? I dont know. The way he wrote it implies that Roy was excellent this year and will be excellent for 3 more years... I just dont see it that way. He still has a long way to go.

And no, I dont think it has anything to do with 'playground' theory, because I think I have better basketball sense than that thank you very much. Its not a result of Roy LOOKING uncomfortable, its a matter of him being indecisive a lot of times. When he gets the ball at the top of the key, its like a hot potato. He's just eager to get it back to one of the guards. I dont wanna knock the Big Fella, I'm a fan of his and want him to blow up next year and shut all of the doubters up. I just thought the writer overestimated him a bit based on his wording.

For the record, the stats back up by case about him being better mid year than last year. He only played 7 minutes at SJU, which makes sense because theyre a bit too quick for him, had one bucket and was pretty much a non factor. In the Villanova home loss, he put in 14 minutes and 2 scores, but only had 1 rebound in a game in which we were badly outplayed on the boards by a shorter team. He played pretty well in Storrs, but a lot of his production came after the game was out of hand. In the Providence game, a game we DESPERATELY needed to win, he did not perform. We were badly outrebounded by Providence. Roy put in 17 minutes, 1 Rebound, 0 points, and a whopping 5 Personal Fouls. Against Seton Hall in the BET, 10 minutes, 4 points, 2 Rebounds both Defensive. And against UConn, he only played 4 minutes, and the only items on the stat sheet were 1 bucket and 2 TO's. From the way the author made it sound, Roy had a great year and would be ready to break out, but wouldnt you think that that sort of player would get at least one stretch of PT in an elimination game the magnitude of the UConn game, especially against a team with a lot of size?

In the postseason he was not brilliant either. 2-6 with 4 points against a very short BU team... Only 6 minutes, 0 points, and 2 PF's against an even shorter Fullerton team. 11 minutes, 2 points, and 1 Rebound in our final game of the year @ SC........ Like I said, I like Roy and want him to do well, but even Coach Thompson did not appear to think too highly of the big man down the stretch. He did not do anything in the last 6 games of the year that would make anyone believe he's any better than any other D1 Freshman center. He showed some flashes earlier in the year, and using his name in the same sentence as the word "potential" is completely appropriate, but to call him a good Big East Player? I dont think so yet.

As for better Freshman in the Conference... Did you guys forget Kyle Lowry?? I know he doesnt really compare to Roy position wise, but to suggest that he doesnt have as high a cieling as any Freshman in America is crazy. Did you see the UNC game?

[nodak89]

homjm said:

Mr. Sarcasm, you are a moron. The fact that he is 7'2'' doesn't mean anything. Yinka Dare? George Murasan? Alexander Koul? He has potential because of his size but hasn't really shown me anything. I know we are all Gtown fans, but let's be realistic about it. I don't think he will start next season. I agree with the person that said that. As for better freshman in the BE? Well, the frosh in the BE were pretty bad this year. Aside from Gay and Jeff and maybe Lowry from nova, the rest were bad. The fact that more and more HS players bypass college, means guys like Hibbert will with conf rookies of the week once in a while.

and

"I don't think Hibbert had a good year by any stretch..."

I disagree.

Roy's lines Pts-Rebs-Asst
Temple 12-10-0
Oral Roberts 14- 5- 2
Syracuse 12-14- 1
Notre Dame (H) 11- 7- 0
WVU 15- 3- 3
Notre Dame (A) 15- 3- 3
UConn (A) 12- 8- 1

Obviously I've selected his best games. At least I was able to find 7 good ones. And he had 3 of his good games against NCAA teams. The rest were against NIT level competion.

Go ahead a make a list of his bad games. It is longer, but that is what it means to have potential. He can do it. He will get better. He will play smarter. He'll never be a gazelle ala Patrick. He'll be a 8-6-2 guy as a Soph and 10-8-3 as a Jr and 13-9-4 as a Sr.

So what if the best HS kids skip college? It's not like Lebron James is going to quit the NBA and enroll at Cincinnati next year. (He'd have to accept a paycut to do that.) Relative to the other freshmen (who are the only known source of sophomores, juniors, and seniors) he had a good year. What's wrong with that?

[SFHoya99]

Lowry was a frosh? I thought he was a freshman last year but was hurt. If he was, you're right. I never said he was as good any freshman in the US; I said he was 3rd in the BE potential-wise, but I forgot about Lowry.

Roy has his plusses and minuses. My specific saracastic response was to the poster who aside Roy was bad because he got nervous when he had the ball. Who cares?

As for playground, I stand by it. A good half the folk out there forget defense completely when evaluating a player. They are the same folk who said Kobe was the league's MVP and that he was better than Shaq. They like pretty things, and guarantee you we have those people on this board. They are easy to find; they bash Roy and Ray Reed.

As for improvement as the season went on. There are two things -- one, the matchups sucked though Roy did get schooled at Providence. Second, as DJ exploded, Roy lost his PT. That was a zero sum game, it seemed.

Without Roy, we lose Seton Hall (Game 1), Notre Dame, maybe WVU, and we are nowhere close in the Syracuse game.

For a freshman, he had a good year.

[RBHoya]

nodak89 said:

Go ahead a make a list of his bad games. It is longer, but that is what it means to have potential. He can do it. He will get better.

For a freshman, he had a good year.

I think both of these statements are more or less fair. He definitly has potential, thats unquestionable. And yes, FOR A FRESHMAN, he had a decent year.... not a standout year, not a Freshman of the year calibur year or even an All Freshman Team Calibur year, but a decent year nonethless. When the author says "if Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert were that good as freshman...." he implies that both guys were Freshman standouts. I dont think Roy was. He was decent, servicable, and gave us hope for the future, but he was not exceptionally productive. That was my reading of it at least. The implication seems to be that he was an excellent freshman (like Jeff) and that next year he'll be a terrific player. I just dont seem him as being on that track right now, though he may improve a lot in the offseason, who knows? If Owens returns, Roy is very unlikely to start, and if Owens plays as well as he did in the latter part of this year, Roys not likely to get a lot of playing time either. Jeff will spend a lot of time at Center with Brandon at the 4 and 3 guards (OR 2 guards and Owens/Crawford/Egerson) and Roy is likely to fall in as his backup, probably playing similar minutes to what he averaged this year. Like I said, its entirely possible he improves a lot in the offseason and comes out next year with a vengeance and earns a ton of PT... but as of today, I dont see him being on pace to do that.


Alright, I've said enough in this thread now

[FormerHoya]

RBHoya said:

I think both of these statements are more or less fair. He definitly has potential, thats unquestionable. And yes, FOR A FRESHMAN, he had a decent year.... not a standout year, not a Freshman of the year calibur year or even an All Freshman Team Calibur year, but a decent year nonethless. When the author says "if Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert were that good as freshman...." he implies that both guys were Freshman standouts. I dont think Roy was. He was decent, servicable, and gave us hope for the future, but he was not exceptionally productive. That was my reading of it at least. The implication seems to be that he was an excellent freshman (like Jeff) and that next year he'll be a terrific player. I just dont seem him as being on that track right now, though he may improve a lot in the offseason, who knows? If Owens returns, Roy is very unlikely to start, and if Owens plays as well as he did in the latter part of this year, Roys not likely to get a lot of playing time either. Jeff will spend a lot of time at Center with Brandon at the 4 and 3 guards (OR 2 guards and Owens/Crawford/Egerson) and Roy is likely to fall in as his backup, probably playing similar minutes to what he averaged this year. Like I said, its entirely possible he improves a lot in the offseason and comes out next year with a vengeance and earns a ton of PT... but as of today, I dont see him being on pace to do that.


Alright, I've said enough in this thread now

I'm trying to fgure out if you are an english major (unlikely) in the School For Suckers (more likely), or are lying to us and are in the "high on law" phase everyone sorta goes through as a 1L?