WHAT A GAME!!! That was CLUTCH BASKETBALL!!!

[RDF]

Easily one of the best displays of clutch basketball in the last 2 Minutes I've seen from BOTH TEAMS! That is what CHAMPIONSHIP basketball is about--teams stepping up and players making shots. I hope that Sacramento-Minnesota were watching because they might learn it's about WHO STEPS UP and not who gags the least! ;D

Tim Duncan showed why he is the best player in the league--and also provided the example I need for my "It's not how many, it's WHEN you hit them" argument. He had a statline that was almost indentical to Kevin Garnett last night, but those who watched both games saw the difference in how both performed.

As for Kobe, who is probably the best clutch shooter currently, he not only hit a big shot to put Lakers up one, he also took two defenders with him allowing his teammate Derek Fisher to hit the game winner with Ginobli all over him. Some say Duncan and Fisher were lucky, fine. I just appreciate the fact they took the shot and whether they missed it or not, they weren't afraid and look what happens when you accept the responsibility of making a play instead of running away from the ball? Kobe drawing double team is not running away from ball as he's got the nads to never be questioned for his heart. He did what he had to do to allow Lakers to get best shot possible.

Garnett running away from ball to allow Darrick Martin to shoot Free Throws, passing to others, etc.. is what frustrates me. I think KG has the ability to step his game up, but for whatever reason I just don't see him ever taking/making a shot like Tim Duncan did tonight. He'd have passed to a guarded teammate and said "Man, it's a team game, man. Shaq had me locked up, so I needed to hit the open man, man"
Duncan was supposed to run pick and roll, did and took the shot because nobody else was open and while he was locked up by Shaq, he showed what a REAL MVP DOES, find a way to get off the shot and MAKE THE SHOT! I loved this stat from him too;

19 minutes straight without a FG
Last 4 Minutes--4/4 8pts

Those 8 pts trump scoring 15 and only 4 pts after double digit lead is lost and pressure is on. But as my argument has been all along, some guys have it and some don't and so far KG has shown what we all know, great talent, and tremendously skilled player who can do it all--until it gets tight, then it's up to his teammates to carry him. That is NOT an MVP and if it is, then please don't allow the league to get many like him!

I'll take Duncan, Kobe, and others like the young kid Dwyane Wade who have that look of hunger and confidence. That's what makes CHAMPIONS and most of all for classic games that we as fans never forget! Thank you to Spurs/Lakers for showing us what Championship Basketball looks like, because some of these teams are too busy OUT-CHOKING EACH OTHER instead of winning the damn game!

[MCIGuy]

The game was more sluggish than I thought it would be. But the fourth quarter, the last two minutes and especially the final 24 seconds were classic.

However since I despise the Evil Empire Known As The Los Angeles Lakers I was pretty bummed out by the final outcome.

[Big Dog]

Its the NBA Playoffs! Yawn.

[MCIGuy]

Bashing the NBA is just the typical example of overkill herd mentality that unfortunately plagues sports forums. It just gets silly at times while other major sports get a free pass.

Of course this is not to say the NBA DOESN'T have its share of problems.

[Big Dog]

Its not herd mentality. But unlike Major League Baseball, the NFL, NCAA hoops, or even college football, I just can't watch NBA games that don't involve the Bucks anymore. Maybe I can get excited to root against the Lakers, but that's about it. David Stern's NBA isn't what it used to be. It might be time for some fresh commissioner's blood.

Here's what I think the real problem is: Stern's decision to make the NBA about players rather than teams. It enrages me to hear "Allen Iverson and the Sixers take on Kobe Bryant and the Lakers". Its a team game. NBA marketing seems to have forgotten that, and it may have caused the players to do so as well.

[Deleted]

Good point, Dog. I've heard countless commentators on sports and marketing remark that the NFL is the most successful league in the WORLD (English Premier League is popular, yes...but the Super Bowl is the Super Bowl) because of marketing genious. People root for jerseys, not players. And sure it Editedes off the Warren Sapp's of the world, but who cares...he's a millionaire already.

GO HOYAS!!!

[HoyaOnBothSides]

big difference between clutch and lucky

what you saw were two botched plays and two prayers that were answered

this was no michael jordan revival

the 4 minutes before those players were horrendous, i'd say about 1/3 of shots taken didn't even touch the rim....

[MCIGuy]

Big said:

Its not herd mentality. But unlike Major League Baseball, the NFL, NCAA hoops, or even college football, I just can't watch NBA games that don't involve the Bucks anymore. Maybe I can get excited to root against the Lakers, but that's about it. David Stern's NBA isn't what it used to be. It might be time for some fresh commissioner's blood.

Here's what I think the real problem is: Stern's decision to make the NBA about players rather than teams. It enrages me to hear "Allen Iverson and the Sixers take on Kobe Bryant and the Lakers". Its a team game. NBA marketing seems to have forgotten that, and it may have caused the players to do so as well.

Frankly to me it is a herd mentality. There's a double standard applied.

I don't want to waste too much time defending the NBA because 1)I've done it enough before and 2) I have major problems of my own with the league. But I think it gets unfair criticism. Just as conservatives whine on about how the liberal media distorts the issues and picks on conservative viewpoints, I'm gonna whine a bit myself and point out that there are too many individulals in the sports media (print, TV, radio) who take cheap shots at the NBA. These people insist that the players don't care about the game and only love the money, that no one plays hard in the first three quarters of any of the games, that the only time the games really matter are during the playoffs, etc. I just love how those geeks in the media make such assumptions without giving us any real evidence to back their claims and how they exclude the other sports from such criticisms. Hypocritical. Its sickening for those people to state that NBA players don't care as if its a fact that can't be disputed. That's insulting to the majority of players whom I'm sure do actually give a damn. And then there's the nonsense aout how the regular season is too long. Well, why isn't the NHL slammed for that just as much? And how is it that NBA haters can make such a statement and then not say anything about that endless, overkill MLB season? 160 games? Are you kidding me?


Fact is every sport has its flaws but the Tony Brunos and the Chris Bermans of the world try to act as if the NBA is the lone offender. The spin that goes on in the media is annoying. For example Bruno will take shots at NBA teams in the playoffs who are getting blown out in the fourth quarter and send out their subs to finish the game. He insists that NHL is far better because all games are, in his mind, are exciting regardless of the score. And he states that when a team in hockey is being blown out its players won't quit like NBA players do; instead they would smack the winning team around a bit to let them know that they have to still be dealt with. You know what would happen if a league like the NBA with a predominantly African American makeup has playoff games in which the opponents start throwing blows during blowouts? The people in the media and the fans calling in the radio stations would label the players as thugs. (Hell, they do that any way even when the players remain civil). People would complain that "that's not basketball" and criticize the NBA for resorting to wrestling tactics.

You complain that the league keeps promoting the stars over the teams. Its a legit complaint and one that has been debated repeatedly. But where were those same complaints during the Bird and Magic eras and when Jordan was leading the Bulls to championships? Fact is basketball is more star driven than most sports. That includes college basketball as well. For those who doubt that then I suggest you take a look at the steady decline in ratings for the NCAA Tournament. The Dukes and the Indianas and the Connecticuts are always going far in these tournaments but since the great players don't stay in college long enough or bypass college altogether the viewers' interest has dwindled. And just look at hockey. The NHL sells itself as a team sport and yet its ratings are still tanking to the point of oblivion. You think the NHL wouldn't like to have the same star power as the NBA to help improve its ratings and its buzz factor? People get on Stern more and more but this man turned around the game after he took over and is arguably the second best commissioner in American sports history. He is the same man who presided over the league during the "golden era" of the 80s so its not as if he doesn't know how to run a successful, appealing product.

Granted the quality of play on the floor leaves a lot to be desired. But every year I turn off NFL and college football games that are either blowouts or in which the final score ends up being something like 10 to 6. Football fans go bonkers and claim the latter is an example of GREAT DEFENSE. How about it was just lousy play instead? In fact while the NFL has had some good Superbowls in the last few years, for the most part it has been saddled with the very worst championship games in the history of sports. This is the same for college football where there are more unexciting, one-sided bowl games than there are close matchups that go down to the wire. But football's ratings keep growing. Why? A big part of the reason is because the media keeps pimping it and telling its audience, no matter the scores, what a great game it is. I'm amazed at the amount of people who spend their entire Saturdays and Sundays watching football games when most of them turn out to be unexciting and foregone conclusions after the first or second quarter. Big leads in football games are rarely overcome and no one says anything negative about it. But if it happens in an NBA game people complain its only because the players decided to finally show up in the fourth quarter! That gives little credit to both teams involved. And even if it was so, which it isn't, its still better than football teams who get down by 14 points early on and never get any closer throughout the remaining part of the game. I guess in that case the football players of the losing team NEVER bothered to show up unlike the bball players who kicked it into gear the fourth quarter, huh?

Outside of the all of the underclassmen and high school players who go into the league, my biggest complaint concerning the NBA are the low scoring games. I do blame that on a lack of fundamentals and even more than that I blame it on coaches who prefer to play it safe and slow the game down. But to be fair I'll also have to give the NBA teams credit for playing, by far, better defense than their counterparts did in the 70s and 80s. One just have to look at classic NBA games on ESPN and see that while the players back then were better two point shooters, they were also horrible on the defensive end. I had to laugh at Charles Barkley picking on the Kings because he felt that unlike the truly great NBA teams in history the Kings don't play great defense. I would seriously like to know when Magic and the Showtime Lakers ever played defense. Defense was a word barely spoken in the NBA until the Original Bad Boys came around.

[Boz]

Now, MCI, do you really want to use the NHL as your example? I don't think you can compare the media coverage of hockey and the media coverage of basketball. Sure, NBA gets a bad rap sometimes, and there are some who are unfair, but the league dominates the media between April and June, so you get good and bad.

On the other hand, unless you watch NHL 2Night, here are the top four stories about the NHL more or less every season:

1. Someone crosses the line and a player gets badly injured.
2. The season is too long and there are too many teams.
3. I can't see the puck and can't pronounce these names.
4. The Rangers suck.

NHL fans would KILL for the kind of comprehensive coverage the NBA gets in the mainstream media, even if some of it is unfair or negative. The only time the NHL gets any attention, other than for the bad things, is when they're talking about how tough the players are, so don't begrudge us that one moment in the sun we get from time to time. Besides, unless certain people remove their respective crania from their respective recta, you won't be hearing about the NHL at all after a couple more weeks.

Thankfully, however, NHL fans do not have to put up with the likes of Stephen A. Smith, so we got that going for us. There is Don Cherry, but he's just a harmless old coot.

[1803]

Is it a cheap shot to say that it is hard to get excited for a seven game series that could last for 17 days? Wow, what a great game these two rivals had on Sunday. I can't wait until they play the next game, in the same city on Thursday night.

Is it a cheap shot to say that watching guys throw up bricks is not exciting, regardless of whether or not the score is close?

Is it a cheap shot to say that one conference had three teams with losing records make the playoffs?

Is it a cheap shot to say that there is something strange about second round games being played before the first round Hornets - Miami series was over?

These are but some of the examples of why I am not personally excited about the playoffs this year.

[MCIGuy]

Boz said:

Now, MCI, do you really want to use the NHL as your example? I don't think you can compare the media coverage of hockey and the media coverage of basketball. Sure, NBA gets a bad rap sometimes, and there are some who are unfair, but the league dominates the media between April and June, so you get good and bad.

On the other hand, unless you watch NHL 2Night, here are the top four stories about the NHL more or less every season:

1. Someone crosses the line and a player gets badly injured.
2. The season is too long and there are too many teams.
3. I can't see the puck and can't pronounce these names.
4. The Rangers suck.

NHL fans would KILL for the kind of comprehensive coverage the NBA gets in the mainstream media, even if some of it is unfair or negative. The only time the NHL gets any attention, other than for the bad things, is when they're talking about how tough the players are, so don't begrudge us that one moment in the sun we get from time to time. Besides, unless certain people remove their respective crania from their respective recta, you won't be hearing about the NHL at all after a couple more weeks.

Thankfully, however, NHL fans do not have to put up with the likes of Stephen A. Smith, so we got that going for us. There is Don Cherry, but he's just a harmless old coot.

Boz, I agree that the NHL gets zero coverage on ESPN and very little mention on radio shows in cities outside of those with playoff hockey teams. Its shameful. But unfortunately fans of hockey and media types who lean towards hockey too often take it out on the NBA as if the NBA is sucking away all the attention. Wrong. The NBA does not dominate the sports media anymore during its post season and haven't in a very long time. MLB gets showered with as much if not more attention during the months of April through June. And NFL coverage is non-stop. The add on the increase coverage of golf and NASCAR and the NBA has to share attention. And yet the NBA is the one league to be blamed for the NHL's lack of coverage. Its absurd.

[MCIGuy]

1803 said:

Is it a cheap shot to say that it is hard to get excited for a seven game series that could last for 17 days? Wow, what a great game these two rivals had on Sunday. I can't wait until they play the next game, in the same city on Thursday night.

Is it a cheap shot to say that watching guys throw up bricks is not exciting, regardless of whether or not the score is close?

Is it a cheap shot to say that one conference had three teams with losing records make the playoffs?

Is it a cheap shot to say that there is something strange about second round games being played before the first round Hornets - Miami series was over?

These are but some of the examples of why I am not personally excited about the playoffs this year.

If that was all people complained about then I wouldn't mind. But when they complain that the post season is too long (and DON'T say anything about the NHL...which doesn't even have a week between games and still goes on forever), when they complain that all of the players are thugs (when the NFL has players with as big if not bigger rap sheets), when they complain the players don't have respect for the game (and yet its the MLB players who are making a mockery of the record books with their steroid use), when they say the players don't give it their all during the regular season (and yet believe that baseball players give 100% every game during MLB's regular season), when they complain that the teams were better in the past (without pointing out that the same could be said of the NFL when there were less watered down teams and more good quarterbacks to go around), when they complain that the players are too fixated on money (as if the players in all of the other sports play for free and therefore pure), when they complain that the West Coast teams are far superior to the East Coast teams (and conveniently forget that when the NFC was winning like 11 out of 12 Super Bowls against the AFC there wasn't any calls in the media to "fix the game"), and when they complain that the NBA post season doesn't produce the amount of overtime thrillers that the NHL does (without pointing out that 1--Hockey and soccer games are tailored made to go into overtime-shootouts because of their low scoring and 2-- that the NFL has produced, proportionately speaking, more lopsided post season contests than most likely any other sport) than there is the stench of hypocrisy. And that's what I have issues with.

Oh, and I find it hard for NCAA basketball fans to complain about NBA players throwing up bricks when we see more of our share of it in college hoops. Yes, I realize that college kids are not getting paid (in theory) and are not necessarily the cream of the crop, but at the same time they aren't exactly playing against the best in the world either and still can't make baskets. The Big East has been known for years as a conference in which scoring is hard to come by and still many Hoya fans will defend the BE by claiming its all about the great defense that is being played. There is no defense you see in college that is as good as those displayed by the Spurs, the Pistons, the Houston Rockets, etc. So why can't the pros be given the same benefit of the doubt that the college players are given. Lets balme their poor shooting on Great D too.

[SFHoya99]

Things I dislike about the NBA:

- In the regular season, effort is pretty variable.
- I don't have a home team and am not emotionally invested in every team.
- Only the teams where the isolation play is not pervasive are interesting.
- TNT & Co. insist on showing Knick games. Furthermore, only about six teams are ever on TV.
- Going to an NBA game is boring. The NBA has priced the passionate fan to the upper deck in most arenas. No one cheers until the fourth. Contrast that with front-row Hoya tickets and I can't go.
- Sick of hearing about Kobe Bryant in all respects.
- Announcers are most unbearable in sports. That applies to college basketball, too.
- Size of playoffs, like hockey, have made regular season irrelevant.

[kghoya]

MCIGuy said:

The game was more sluggish than I thought it would be. But the fourth quarter, the last two minutes and especially the final 24 seconds were classic.

However since I despise the Evil Empire Known As The Los Angeles Lakers I was pretty bummed out by the final outcome.

dont you like duke?

[MCIGuy]

KGHoya said:

dont you like duke?

Yep. Like the Yankees too. But they ain't evil. ;D

[RDF]

Big said:

Its not herd mentality. But unlike Major League Baseball, the NFL, NCAA hoops, or even college football, I just can't watch NBA games that don't involve the Bucks anymore. Maybe I can get excited to root against the Lakers, but that's about it. David Stern's NBA isn't what it used to be. It might be time for some fresh commissioner's blood.

Here's what I think the real problem is: Stern's decision to make the NBA about players rather than teams. It enrages me to hear "Allen Iverson and the Sixers take on Kobe Bryant and the Lakers". Its a team game. NBA marketing seems to have forgotten that, and it may have caused the players to do so as well.

Big Dog, you make some really good points about the Individual being marketed over the Team, but with expansion, you only have 1-2 teams worth marketing that way---Lakers and Spurs. When Lakers come to town, everyone knows and goes to see them because of the team they have--and it's a love/hate thing that all Championship Organizations attract---Yankees, Cowboys, etc....

But the fact is that NBA Basketball is on the upswing again. I think David Stern is smarter than we give him credit for and if you've noticed the last few years, the PLAYERS have been allowed to decide the games and the "consipiracy" theories that rang prevelent in the '90's Jordan era are not around. It used to be that a player like a Dwyane Wade would be called for fouls if he even looked at players like Michael Jordan. Now they are letting players play and I think Officiating has improved TREMENDOUSLY. If you watch the games 95% of the calls are right on the money and correct. (credit Mark Cuban for this with his critiquing of Refs)

The NFL is worse about hyping individual players than you gave them credit for. Name one game that you don't see a Donovan McNabb ad? They always says "Sapp and the Bucs take on Moss and Vikings" in their promotional Ad's. I think NFL is popular for many reasons but most of all it's the GAMBLING and fact their season is shortest and makes fans WANT MORE-(marketing 101 always leave your clientale wanting more). Taglibue is making NFL the "New Hot Stove" as well and his brilliant concept of moving Free Agency up before the Draft, which now happens much later than it used to, carries a year around interest but not overkill.

MLB is by far the biggest offender of overkill in my opinion. The sport was the most popular in this country when you had 8-12 teams and everyone was loaded with guys who could play ball. Now you have players who couldn't make Double A starting and playing. Kids dont' have to know the game to play, they just have to be talented. That's why it's only popular during All Star Game and Playoffs. People like to watch talent, not watered down products--which the NBA can be accused of as well with too many teams.

As for the NHL, it's terribly underrated and best spectator sport to attend outside of basketball for me because of the constant action. It doesn't translate to television as well because of the lack of scoring, same problem as soccer. If you want ratings you have to attract the "Casual Fan" and those people want to see some scoring/action, not 0-0 games. I enjoy any Hockey, Baseball, Football, and especially Basketball game, but I'm a diehard sports fan. Others want action and to see something special.

NFL and NBA have the best athletes in the world on their stage. People enjoy speed, athleticism, and violence mixed in. To me the NBA Playoffs is best to watch because it adds Drama to sport. You have two teams battling in a format that shows who the superior team is and allow players to flourish/fail. In the other sporst you can neautralize great players---and force ball out of their hands, prevent them from hitting, i.e. Barry Bonds, and trap the puck. In Basketball you can do this for a while, but not an entire game. Just my opinion.

I enjoy it and while I understand your opinions, as much of a fan as I am of College Sports, I love seeing the Best play at the highest level and players decide games, not officials--which happens far too much in the corrupt world of College Sports. (and I'm diehard College fan as well).

[MCIGuy]

Great post, RDF.

[SFHoya99]

Baseball is in a different world than the other spectactor sports.

You talk up hockey (which I like) as constant action. And I'm surprised it doesn't do better in the US because of it.

But people who really like to watch baseball, I think tend to like it because there ISN'T constant action.

Like Football and Hockey, but unlike basketball, a score actually means something in baseball.

Like Football, but unlike basketball and hockey, there's time to second guess, make your own decision, predict, etc. in baseball.

And unlike the rest, baseball is a team sport based on individual accomplishment. It's more like Cross Country where you root for a team but players have minimal effect on each other than it is like football where it is impossible to separate a RB from his O-line.

These differences are pretty fundamental, and I think the sports' appeal has a lot to do with your preference as to action.

The interesting thing to me is I find the NBA boring but college basketball fun. Same sport, but something's different.

[RDF]

The interesting thing to me is I find the NBA boring but college basketball fun. Same sport, but something's different.[/quote]

Agree completely and it's why I enjoy the same sport--the differences. In college I love the atmosphere of the game and fact that you mix kids who are not quite talented enough to play Professionally with those who are, and anything can happen. I love the fact each team has traditions and unique appeal instead of the seemingly mandatory "Laser Light" Intro of EVERY NBA TEAM that is watered down and played out.

I love the NBA because it's the best playing with peers and proving themselves. You dominate a game and your doing something special. In College, it could be that you are dominating a guy who'll be on Wall Street or in a Law Firm.

Main reason I enjoy it over NCAA is that players decide the games. Great players get calls but each team has a player or two that get them INSTEAD of coaches/programs getting calls. For instance the GU-Duke game of 2 years ago in Durham would've been more fun to watch with NBA officiating because they would've never had Sweetney foul out. Hoyas were in the game and leading most of it with him on the floor, without him, we struggled, and Duke wins comfortably. Is that Duke rising up or getting help which hides their weaknesses?

If I'm a College Coach I wouldn't say a word to Refs and would tell my team to ignore them as well (easier said than done). It would be more of an example of what A-Holes and egotistical jerks most College Coaches behave like on sidelines, than being "Special". I'm about players deciding the game as much as possible and that's why I wouldn't use timeouts unless it was to manage/extend the game for time reasons. If someone hits some shots, they should be smart enough to realize he needs to be guarded and it's on coach to prepare the team at PRACTICE.

But when it comes down to it, I love basketball at every level (except Women's Basketball) because it's a sport I love. That's the #1 reason we like/dislike sports and there is no right/wrong answer/reason for how we feel. I just tend to agree with MCI that NBA gets a bum rap by "Talking Heads" who dislike it for whatever reason. No surprise Tony Bruno is currently Anti-NBA--he's from Philly and Flyers are still alive while Sixers are home. When AI and Sixers are in Playoffs he's more than interested.