The Other Georgetown Basketball

[DFW HOYA]

A discussion thread on Georgetown's "other" basketball team--the women's program. Why is it not better supported?

Watching Baylor compete in the Women's Final Four this weekend (and the loads of press coverage it is receiving down here) got me thinking to discuss this. Why hasn't Georgetown's fan base better supported the team? The University spends a lot of money each year on women's basketball and it's a fully funded "national" sport.

A lot of schools have a very transferable fan base--the LSU football base will nonetheless cheer on a women's basketball or baseball team once it is in NCAA play. If Georgetown was winning 20 games a year, would there still be the 300 or so home fans at every game? If Georgetown made it to the Eastern Regionals or even the Final Four, would you buy tickets?

A lot of Georgetown sports deserves better crowds--certainly women's basketball, but also football, lacrosse, baseball, etc. Why aren't these sports which don't conflict with basketball season more interest, at least occasionally?

[jerseyhoya34]

It is a good point, and I'll be honest in saying that I have not attended anything other than football and basketball at GU. I think a lot of it has to do with HB when you take your question in its on-campus context. I'd rather not go alone to a non-basketball game, and it is tough to scare up any kind of interest when HB is not involved in the promotion of these non-basketball sports.

In terms of my interest in going, a lot of it comes down to facilities in my case. When I go to a football game, which is infrequent at best, I don't get the feeling that there is much institutional interest in the program, and that reflects down to me and from me in my lack of attendance. In terms of women's basketball, McDonough does not exactly scream "national program," so I was never really under the impression that it was serious in those regards. Whereas, my impression is quite different with the MCI because it is a quasi-state-of-the-art facility, or, at least, more respectable than McDonough currently is.

I also think there is more overt institutional interest with men's basketball than anything else. How many times have I received an e-mail from a McDonough source encouraging me to go to a women's basketball game? Rarely. This season, I only think it happened when the men were playing in the same gym as the women for the SJSU game. They also did it for the pep rally and asked us to turn out for their last home game, but anyone who attended could tell us what the focus of the evening was, which was the men's team.

[3GenerationHoya]

I think kids just need to see that it is ok to go to other sporting events and have fun. If a big group of students decided to go against the norm and go to every home sporting event, things can change quickly.

At my high school we had a spirit group similar to HB that the student body saw in a somewhat negative, or at least indifferent, light. So a group of football players and their friends decided to start their own club. They bought a few grills and supplies and started cooking out at boys' basketball games, which usually drew a lot of people.

As people realized how much fun this was, the group grew larger and they looked for any excuse to have cook outs. They started going to girls' basketball games, soccer games for both guys and girls, and even a math club meet at our school.

The math club meet was the most fun event of them all. Here were about 50 guys grilling, singing the school fight song, and chanting as buses of math club kids arrived at the school. I think those other math teams were seriously intimidated, and our math team loved it.

Needless to say, school spirit and support for sports teams were quite high. When our soccer team was in the playoffs that year, we were able to pack a couple of away games and were a big reason they won the state championship. This was pretty impressive for a school that drew students from all over the area.

I think if a couple of clubs and an organization like the GU Grilling Society (GUGS) were to get behind a couple of sports teams, there could be increased student support. Someone has to lead the way and show the student body what real dedication and school spirit is all about.

[jerseyhoya34]

ROTFLMAO about the Math Club.

[TBird41]

To be honest, I find women's basketball boring. And I know that they are average at best, so I don't go. Same thing with soccer--it doesn't interest me and I don't have a reason to go I enjoy cheering and getting into games though, so maybe if there were events, I would go. But there isn't, so I don't want to spend 2+ hours watching a sport I find boring.

My guess with Lacrosse is that it's an east coast sport. I don't have a clue what's going on, so if I'm not going with people who can explain the strategy, then I'm not really going to go.

And baseball is easy to explain--they play far away and there's no transportation. Plus they're bad.

[nychoya3]

"Boring" is, in large part, a function of atmosphere, though. I tend to agree that womens basketball's has a pace and style which isn't asthetically pleasing. But I attended a UConn game at Storrs with a friend of mine, and it was genuinely fun because people cared about it. It becomes a chicken-egg scenario in that, so long as people don't care enough to create an interested atmosphere, going to the games will be a snooze. Some groups on campus have to organize people to go. It won't be easy, but there is one thing that always serves to motivate college students, and they sell it at Dixie Liquors. Just saying...

Incidentely, I've never played lacrosse in my life, but I've really come to like the sport. It's a hell of a spectator sport, and it's probably (okay, certainly) Georgetown's best athletics team since they hired Coach Urick. Give it a shot - it's pretty simple to figure out and it's really physical and fast paced.

[TBird41]

nychoya3 said:

"Boring" is, in large part, a function of atmosphere, though. I tend to agree that womens basketball's has a pace and style which isn't asthetically pleasing. But I attended a UConn game at Storrs with a friend of mine, and it was genuinely fun because people cared about it. It becomes a chicken-egg scenario in that, so long as people don't care enough to create an interested atmosphere, going to the games will be a snooze. Some groups on campus have to organize people to go. It won't be easy, but there is one thing that always serves to motivate college students, and they sell it at Dixie Liquors. Just saying...

Incidentely, I've never played lacrosse in my life, but I've really come to like the sport. It's a hell of a spectator sport, and it's probably (okay, certainly) Georgetown's best athletics team since they hired Coach Urick. Give it a shot - it's pretty simple to figure out and it's really physical and fast paced.

That's my point--the atmosphere is boring b/c no one goes and vice versa. This is where HB needs to get involved by coming up with reasons for people to go, and they have failed miserably.

[YB]

I'd like to note that:

1. support for men's bball is not that great, all things considered, and it is supposedly the flagship sport;

2. Other than men's ball, what other spectator sports at GU have been consistently good? Mens and womens lax. Soccer, mens. That's about it.

I love to go to other GU sports, anyone who wants to go I'll be there, we'll talk Hoya hoops while watching our hoyas whoop up on the competition.

[FLHoya]

nychoya3 said:

It becomes a chicken-egg scenario in that, so long as people don't care enough to create an interested atmosphere, going to the games will be a snooze. Some groups on campus have to organize people to go. It won't be easy, but there is one thing that always serves to motivate college students, and they sell it at Dixie Liquors. Just saying...

It's not like this is confined just to the "Other" sports at Georgetown either. Ever asked someone from the Georgetown Program Board why they never seem to book any good concerts on campus? Same answer every time--we don't spend the big bucks to book big acts b/c students don't come and the atmosphere sucks, then students complain b/c we never have good acts and the atmosphere at our concerts sucks...it's a vicious cycle.

This is a larger issue to do with the campus. I think 3Generation captured it in the first sentence of his post:

"I think kids just need to see that it is ok to go to other sporting events and have fun."

At some schools, the way the social fabric works, sports--even "other" ones--are higher up the totem pole of "things kids do to have fun" (it's called the Southeastern Conference ;D).

And at the most basic level, that's what going to college sporting events is for students: something they do in their spare time to have fun. There's a bunch of choices out there, some of them dependent on where your school is and what kind of entertainment options are around. But the main thing is personal.

When I wrote my column last summer about the different "types" of Freshman fans, one of the things I was trying to get across is that you have to "sell" games to them differently b/c they have different reasons for going.

It was no problem to sell me on going to a game--I love college athletics. I was proud to be a fan and frequent attendee at basketball, football, men's and women's lacrosse, and men's and women's soccer while I went to Georgetown. Still go to three of those even now. There's a bunch of people like that on campus.

But there's some people for whom the main attraction isn't necessarily the game itself--it has more to do with the "event". And for them, they have to be "sold" that it's some mixture of: a good time, something they can do with their friends, or better than a bar/movie/Adams Morgan.

Having a good promotions staff and a functioning Hoya Blue will help get the word out and "educate" students about the teams (as if we're all Syms salespersons or something) so that at least students aren't walking into a great unknown when they trudge up to North Kehoe Field.

But don't ignore the power of things like pre-game BBQs and the other stuff 3Gen mentions. Or, for that matter, seemingly silly stuff like songs, banners, shirts, and cheap face paint. If there's one interesting thing I've noticed about casual Georgetown basketball fans, it's that they can learn about stuff and "adopt" it and be aware of it. I think about how many stories I hear about people overhearing conversations about the song "Jeff Green's Mom"--or overhear it in the hallways of dorms. Or how many people wear "We Are Georgetown" shirts in Yates. Or how many people know who 007 is solely on reputation/that wig...and who don't actually know his real name.

You know where the best non-Georgetown student fans I observed this year came from? Bishop Ireton H.S. and Paul VI Catholic H.S. I went to watch a game between them this year (Chuck Driesell of course coaches at BI now). We pull up in the parking lot and there's this big bunch of BI kids hanging out, decked out in the school colors and lots of wigs and other crap. Saw the Paul VI fans dressed in blue filing in also. Here we are, on a Friday night, and there's two full student sections (probably close to 150-200 in each) doing cheers and completely into the game the whole time. They've got props, their own "front row" of crazy people, they know their stuff (there were some pretty interesting cheers directed at a certain player or two).

Point is, these kids could have been about a million other places on their Friday night--movies, the mall, restaurant, party--but through their student fan clubs (they all had shirts) they'd somehow managed to convince all these people that going to basketball games was "cool". And worth it on a Friday night. Maybe the rivalries of the WCAC have something to do with that. Maybe it's the tailgating.

But I did leave thinking that Hoya Blue and Georgetown could learn something from a bunch of Catholic High School kids.

Good game too, it went OT.

And let me just plug lacrosse as nychoya did as an incredible spectator sport. I hadn't seen a real lacrosse game until I came to GU, as the concept of HS lacrosse in Florida did not exist until after I graduated. It's legitimately a great game to watch, and the program really does the school proud. Plus, any sport in which Duke, Maryland, and Syracuse are traditionally on the schedule should count for something. I'm happy to say that I'm well-versed enough in the rules now that I was giving out rules explanations/strategy discussions to 007 last weekend at the Duke game...and he's from Long Island, so go figure.

[GIGAFAN99]

Part of the problem is of course that many students don't care to stay on campus and watch any of the other sports because there are other things to do in DC. That's fair actually and certainly a result of the lack of venues on or just off campus where students can congregate before and after the games.

And here's a big problem, what conference are we in? Not the Big East, they play D-1A football. It's not the Patriot League, we play at a higher level in basketball. It's not the ECAC; does anyone on this board hate Hobart?

We're all over the map and therefore all our rivalries are diluted. It's one thing to go to Yale and know you want to beat Harvard at backgammon, women's basketball, football, or hungry hungry hippos. At Georgetown, we want to beat 'Cuse in BBall, Holy Cross at football, maybe even a team outside the conference like Duke at lacrosse...who knows?

For some sports specifically there are other problems, but I think generally these are two issues Georgetown has that do not necessarily exist elsewhere. We can try to get some momentum for other sports, but without more on-campus pre-game activities and defined rivalries it's a tough job.

[YB]

Sorry, but the "other things to do in DC" excuse doesn't fly. GU students don't know anything other than GU, Union Station, and Pentagon City. Obviously that's a generalization, but not too far off the mark. I just think there's more ot the lack of a fan mentality and "cool to go enjoy a sports game" mentality. I think that has the most to do with it- and that only changes over time.

[TBird41]

YB said:

Sorry, but the "other things to do in DC" excuse doesn't fly. GU students don't know anything other than GU, Union Station, and Pentagon City. Obviously that's a generalization, but not too far off the mark. I just think there's more ot the lack of a fan mentality and "cool to go enjoy a sports game" mentality. I think that has the most to do with it- and that only changes over time.

Agreed. People don't go do things off campus. If they aren't at the games, it's because they are studying, partying or doing whatever else it is they do in their free time (just chillin, watching movies, etc).

[DrumsGoBang]

You will almost never get the same kind of fan base at a women's game as you do at some of the other schools around the nation. Why is this? Because Georgetown is located in freaking Washington, DC. I went to a larger state school for grad school in a town that was just that University and not much more. People go to the games because there is nothing else to do. The whole town comes out to watch the games because it's the only thing. Nothing is competeing with it. Georgetown is a much smaller school and there is always things competeing against us in Washington. Students will also not come to the games, unless some things change. I rememeber that it was hard to even get a while band to show up a McD's. I do think we can change things and increase the amount of people, but that would require the AD to work.

Step 1. Food. McD's dogs are burnt on the outside and frozen on the inside. Lets get some good food that is an alturnative to Leo's (which I like to call the OD)

Step 2. Free tickets. Start giving them away. It's not like you could make any money on the amount of people anyways. Set up a stand that sells Georgetown big foam hands and t-shirts at an inflated price and you'll make up that cost in merch. Just like DIY shows back in the day.

Step 3. Give those free tickets to the comminity. People will show up if you give them tickets. They might not show up again after they see McD, but if you go around to all the DC public schools and give their women's team tickets for them and all their friends they will probably show up.

Step 4. Tailgating or selling beer. This is bring a crowd. Allow tailgating or sell some beer. People will come. Also if a enough guys come to drink the beer, the girls who talk on their cellphone during the whole game at MCI will show up to talk on their cell phone and sit next to the guys drinking the beer. Also beers with straws.

Step 5. Have more student group participate in the half time show. When I was a student halftime was a dance group of elementry school kids. Get some student orginization to perform. This will mean that those people will show up and all those peoples friends who were guilted into going.

Step 6. Topless tuesdays

Step 7. How about actually promating the women's team. Even talking about them once in a while on this board. You know coach Knapp used to bark like a dog.

Step 8. Have this girls team chanllenge people to pickup games.

Step 9. Legalize slots in McD's

[TBird41]

I think I like #6 the best ;D ;D.

Maybe for the women's lacrosse and soccer teams as well? ;D ;D

[DrumsGoBang]

Also, good way to rid of the dance team taking up seats at MCI center is force them to go to women's games if they are going to do men's too.

[DrumsGoBang]

TBird41 said:

I think I like #6 the best ;D ;D.

Maybe for the women's lacrosse and soccer teams as well? ;D ;D

I'm always the idea man. I like Adam Brick, but I think you all should start a write-in campaign to have have Drums as the next AD. Also I'm not Politically Correct. Trust me that will help.

[hoyatables]

Beers with straws works for me. Particularly the 64 oz insulated beers they had at the Garden for Big East this year. I'm pretty sure that if I had a 64 oz beer I'd go to the womens' games as an alumni.

But seriously, I never understood why more students didn't show up for womens' games. It was a different atmosphere, but still competitive, and it was right there on campus. Then again, we can't get people to show up for a mediocre (by national standards) football program--what makes us think we could get them to show up for a mediocre women's basketball program?

Reasons why students don't show up to these second-tier sports:
1) It's a long walk up the hill or across the parking lot. Oh wait, there's no parking lot anymore--the students in the new dorms can literally spit on McDonough. Not a good excuse.
2) Hard to get up early on a weekend --- but the womens' games tend to be night games.
3) Tombs/Rhinos/Champs/Smiths has a tuesday night special that conflicts with the games--but no explanation for the underage kiddies not going.
4) Studying is more exciting that a couple of hours out of the dorm room?
5) Plenty of other entertainment options in a big city (because, you know, so many students actually make it off the Hilltop to a non-bar setting).

There's no real reason other than lack of interest or "buzz." part of the appeal of men's bball is i think the school spirit that is just not felt at the other events. In my four years I attended virtually every football and men's and women's game, but I was in a clear minority and probably would not have gone but for the fact that I was required to do so by the band. Actually, by junior year I genuinely enjoyed it, but it took time to get into that mindset and cultivate it.

What could be done to get people to the games?
1--Dorm nights. ResLife sponsors the price of a ticket and a dog for each student. Good bonding opportunity.
2--Class nights. Class Committee sponsors the ticket price and a dog for each student. Senior Class Cmte sponsors a beer as well.
3--Local alumni night. Do it for a big game; post game at the Tombs.
4--corporate sponsor with the same idea.

Get the hint? Give out stuff for free! I'm not sure if tickets for students are free, but if they are, then give away something else. Tshirts, etc. And HoyaBlue should be pushing people to get there as well. And the dance team should be there, Drums is right.

[JohnJacquesLayup]

YB said:

I'd like to note that:
2. Other than men's ball, what other spectator sports at GU have been consistently good? Mens and womens lax. Soccer, mens. That's about it.

Club Hockey?

[DrumsGoBang]

We should get the baseball team to move to RFK and play there when the Nats are away.

[Cambridge]

JohnJacquesLayup said:

Club Hockey?

Sailing