bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Mar 13, 2014 19:20:25 GMT -5
The problem is that none of them are centers. If Smith doesn't come through, or Hayes doesn't have some ridiculous breakthrough, we're looking at a lot of Hopkins next year. I'm frankly stunned that we didn't seem to strongly pursue a player like Delarosa. Are you really stunned? We don't get the correlation between size and the effectiveness of our offense or defense. What's more bizarre is we have evidence during JTIII's tenure that our style predicated on winning in the half court is at its worst when we trot out three guards and two forwards. Totally lost on the staff it seems. We just throw out who we think are the "five best players" like it doesn't matter. The team did pretty well last year playing 3 guards and 2 forwards most of the time. The difference is you can't play with 3 guards and 2 forwards if only 2 of the 5 can shoot and none are plus rebounders.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,245
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 13, 2014 20:30:26 GMT -5
D. That's my grade for the team this year. I was going to say F, but thought better of it, because we did have a few good wins this year. The problem was that each good win was offset by one or more losses that were abominable and nauseating. So I give the team a D, the coaching staff a D, and every player except Markel, DSR, Trawick and Bowen a D (or worse). Actually, exclude the walk ons and Caprio, as little to nothing was expected from them. Props to Caprio for earning a scholarship this year. I'm not sure how we were somehow in the mix for the NCAA tournament, even though this season was a mess of Esherickian proportions.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 13, 2014 20:59:23 GMT -5
Are you really stunned? We don't get the correlation between size and the effectiveness of our offense or defense. What's more bizarre is we have evidence during JTIII's tenure that our style predicated on winning in the half court is at its worst when we trot out three guards and two forwards. Totally lost on the staff it seems. We just throw out who we think are the "five best players" like it doesn't matter. The team did pretty well last year playing 3 guards and 2 forwards most of the time. The difference is you can't play with 3 guards and 2 forwards if only 2 of the 5 can shoot and none are plus rebounders. Our most common lineup half the year was effectively 4 forwards in size with Whit and Otto-Lubick-Hop post-Greg. This year we have no lineup that has the forwards much less four.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Mar 13, 2014 21:04:26 GMT -5
I just hope next year we stop playing this tentative style and let the kids coming in blend more of their own natural talents into a more loose style of play. My big concern is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, respects our offense. We have too many guys right now who the other teams see as no threat at all. Hopefully this changes next year. I think we should play all freshmen if we have to. We just need to start afresh. I'm not sure how anyone can argue that the kids were held back by the offense we ran this year. Markel and DSR had free reign to gun. Same with Jabril to take it to the hole and shoot. It's not the offense's fault we only had two scorers by the end of the year Yeah, but my point still is that we always seem to play tentatively. I do believe this will change with the likes of Peaks, White, and Copeland. Quite frankly, I can't wait for next year.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 21:12:36 GMT -5
I'm not sure how anyone can argue that the kids were held back by the offense we ran this year. Markel and DSR had free reign to gun. Same with Jabril to take it to the hole and shoot. It's not the offense's fault we only had two scorers by the end of the year Yeah, but my point still is that we always seem to play tentatively. I do believe this will change with the likes of Peaks, White, and Copeland. Quite frankly, I can't wait for next year. I'm with you. Always a long, long 8 months between seasons, but the anticipation for next year will help ease the pain.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 13, 2014 21:28:07 GMT -5
I agree MGS...I get the feeling those guys along with a senior trawick etc will be fine. correct, that's what i mean by playing to the system; also when teams would take it hard to GU, they had no answer this year. That's where an enforcer comes in.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 13, 2014 22:03:46 GMT -5
D. That's my grade for the team this year. I was going to say F, but thought better of it, because we did have a few good wins this year. The problem was that each good win was offset by one or more losses that were abominable and nauseating. So I give the team a D, the coaching staff a D, and every player except Markel, DSR, Trawick and Bowen a D (or worse). Actually, exclude the walk ons and Caprio, as little to nothing was expected from them. Props to Caprio for earning a scholarship this year. I'm not sure how we were somehow in the mix for the NCAA tournament, even though this season was a mess of Esherickian proportions. As bad it seems right now, it was not even close to an Esherickian debacle. Just take a look at Esh's last season. Compared to that, this season would be considered wildly successful.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2014 10:51:02 GMT -5
I flipped around and watched parts of several league tournament games yesterday and it really pointed out how important it is to have forwards who can make pull-up jumpers.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2014 11:40:57 GMT -5
The team did pretty well last year playing 3 guards and 2 forwards most of the time. The difference is you can't play with 3 guards and 2 forwards if only 2 of the 5 can shoot and none are plus rebounders. Our most common lineup half the year was effectively 4 forwards in size with Whit and Otto-Lubick-Hop post-Greg. This year we have no lineup that has the forwards much less four. DSR and Trawick played more minutes than Hopkins and almost as many as Lubick. Our offensive lineup to close out games in the conference season was Starks-DSR-Trawick-Otto and whichever of Lubick, Hopkins, or Moses was having the better day or matchup. The minutes in the blowout home win vs. Syracuse were Starks 40, Porter 39, DSR 34, Trawick 33, Lubick 20, Hopkins 20, Ayegba 13, Bowen 1, so mostly a 3-guard lineup.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 14, 2014 16:43:19 GMT -5
Our most common lineup half the year was effectively 4 forwards in size with Whit and Otto-Lubick-Hop post-Greg. This year we have no lineup that has the forwards much less four. DSR and Trawick played more minutes than Hopkins and almost as many as Lubick. Our offensive lineup to close out games in the conference season was Starks-DSR-Trawick-Otto and whichever of Lubick, Hopkins, or Moses was having the better day or matchup. The minutes in the blowout home win vs. Syracuse were Starks 40, Porter 39, DSR 34, Trawick 33, Lubick 20, Hopkins 20, Ayegba 13, Bowen 1, so mostly a 3-guard lineup. Check the lineup stats on hoya prospectus.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2014 17:59:58 GMT -5
DSR and Trawick played more minutes than Hopkins and almost as many as Lubick. Our offensive lineup to close out games in the conference season was Starks-DSR-Trawick-Otto and whichever of Lubick, Hopkins, or Moses was having the better day or matchup. The minutes in the blowout home win vs. Syracuse were Starks 40, Porter 39, DSR 34, Trawick 33, Lubick 20, Hopkins 20, Ayegba 13, Bowen 1, so mostly a 3-guard lineup. Check the lineup stats on hoya prospectus. In conference play, so post-Whittington, I see Starks played 89% of minutes, Porter 88%, Lubick 76%, DSR 70%, Trawick 69%, Hopkins 47%, Moses 26%, so I don't see any way that works out to a four forward lineup.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 15, 2014 7:51:16 GMT -5
Below is part of a table from Hoya Prospectus showing lineups without Whit through Feb 17. The 10 games included are: St. John's, Providence, USF, ND, L'ville, SHU, St. John's, Rutgers, Marquette, and Cincinnati. The only game we lost in that stretch was USF. We played nine more games. Here is a breakdown of mins by position: 1. Starks [37], Smith-Rivera [3] 2. Smith-Rivera [26], Trawick [13], Caprio [1] 3. Trawick [15], Porter [15], Bowen [9] 4. Porter [19], Lubick [18], Bowen [1], Hopkins [1] 5. Hopkins [20], Lubick [11], Ayegba [9] Lineup | # off. possessions | Net Efficiency | Hopkins-Lubick-Porter-Starks-Trawick | 123 | 6 | Lubick-Porter-DSR-Starks-Trawick | 116 | 28 | Hopkins-Porter-DSR-Starks-Trawick | 48 | 14 | Bowen-Lubick-Porter-DSR-Starks | 36 | 42 | Hopkins-Lubick-DSR-Starks-Trawick | 35 | 16 | Ayegba-Lubick-Porter-DSR-Starks | 33 | 90 | Hopkins-Lubick-Porter-DSR-Starks | 29 | 35 | Ayegba-Porter-DSR-Starks-Trawick | 23 | 50 | Bowen-Hopkins-Porter-DSR-Starks | 23 | -54 | Ayegba-Bowen-Porter-DSR-Starks | 21 | 59 | Hopkins-Lubick-Porter-DSR-Trawick | 10 | 40 | Ayegba-Hopkins-Porter-DSR-Starks | 10 | -9 |
Man do I miss that site.
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bmartin
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,459
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Post by bmartin on Mar 15, 2014 8:47:02 GMT -5
Still not seeing a 4-forward lineup. Trawick is a guard. And that still shows the 3-guard lineup of Starks, DSR, Trawick on the floor together about half of the time. And more games were played after Feb. 17. Trawick's minutes increased and Hopkins' decreased as the season went on.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 15, 2014 11:29:14 GMT -5
All I know is that the bread and butter (crunch time lineup) was DSR,Starks, Trawick, Porter, and Lubick
And that can be easily verified by checking the last 5 mins or so of in game play after Whittington was suspended.
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 15, 2014 11:42:34 GMT -5
All I know is that the bread and butter (crunch time lineup) was DSR,Starks, Trawick, Porter, and Lubick And that can be easily verified by checking the last 5 mins or so of in game play after Whittington was suspended. That's right. Two guards, a small forward and an indescribable forward.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 17, 2014 7:24:28 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 17, 2014 14:00:00 GMT -5
The most painful part of this was I bought tickets wednesday morning for Thursday night. I was going win/lose or draw. I sold my tix in front of MSG for $30 for a net profit of minus $220. I then bought Friday night tix out front just to watch a few games on my trip and paid $220 for face value tix that were $270 so plus $50. On the weekend I was minus $170 and never got to see the hoyas.
As an impartial observer, Seton Hall, Provy and especially Creighton's crowds absolutely brought it. Xavier was a dud and had almost zero fans at the garden. The crowd was hype and other then the top corners, the crowd was good. I think it bodes well for the future of the conference.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 17, 2014 18:11:51 GMT -5
The most painful part of this was I bought tickets wednesday morning for Thursday night. I was going win/lose or draw. I sold my tix in front of MSG for $30 for a net profit of minus $220. I then bought Friday night tix out front just to watch a few games on my trip and paid $220 for face value tix that were $270 so plus $50. On the weekend I was minus $170 and never got to see the hoyas. As an impartial observer, Seton Hall, Provy and especially Creighton's crowds absolutely brought it. Xavier was a dud and had almost zero fans at the garden. The crowd was hype and other then the top corners, the crowd was good. I think it bodes well for the future of the conference. Could have been worse, I guess, but that sucks.
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