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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 21, 2014 15:33:22 GMT -5
And so it begins...OC Vince Marino has been fired. WHAT?!? I thought all you football experts knew that the staff wouldnt change at all from under kelly...
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Feb 21, 2014 16:34:54 GMT -5
And so it begins...OC Vince Marino has been fired. Source?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 22, 2014 2:30:44 GMT -5
And so it begins...OC Vince Marino has been fired. WHAT?!? I thought all you football experts knew that the staff wouldnt change at all from under kelly... Well you wouldn't think someone hired from within would fire their OC. But if it's true, it's a great move. Kelly had 3 OC's at Georgetown. He refused to fire Miceli when it was clear that he was completely beyond saving, then stumbled into a good hire when Hofstra folded their program and Patenaude had nowhere to go, but somehow followed up with Patenaude hire by hiring Marino, a guy who had bad offenses on bad Columbia teams and was part of a staff that was let go, which freed him up for Georgetown. And yes, I would say I am one of the football experts on this board.
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Post by reformation on Feb 23, 2014 10:21:15 GMT -5
From Russky,
Universities are in the people business, which to a great extent means the quality experience business. Obscure trophies, like that MAAC championship totem, tend to get quickly consigned to the dustbin of history. We don't want the same to be true of our players. The point I've been trying to make is that Georgetown - which is to say, Healy 2 - already has figured out what it wants from football. It simply chooses not to communicate it openly, because the answer is a profoundly unsatisfying one to most of the people actually involved in the program. As it is for field hockey, swimming & diving, tennis, baseball, etc. etc.
For this reason...Sgarlata is the right man for the job.
I'm sure what you are saying is true and agree with you regarding the conclusion re: the coach. However, this type of thinking is symptomatic of why Gtwn struggles to be a truly elite university. Elite universities focus on developing signature programs both academically and in other areas. Sponsoring a whole bunch of marginal activities like Gtwn does in athletics is a waste of resources. The whole "student experience" argument would make sense if these sports were populated largely by "walk-ons", but they are not. Over the past 20 yrs the athletic competitiveness across the secondary college sports has increased dramatically and we need to recruit meaningfully to compete at any level. Gtwn should pick its spots re developing additional signature sports beyond the few that we currently have. Fostering mediocrity has nothing to do with "Cura Personalis"
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,599
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 23, 2014 23:16:33 GMT -5
I'm sure what you are saying is true and agree with you regarding the conclusion re: the coach. However, this type of thinking is symptomatic of why Gtwn struggles to be a truly elite university. Elite universities focus on developing signature programs both academically and in other areas. Sponsoring a whole bunch of marginal activities like Gtwn does in athletics is a waste of resources. The whole "student experience" argument would make sense if these sports were populated largely by "walk-ons", but they are not. Over the past 20 yrs the athletic competitiveness across the secondary college sports has increased dramatically and we need to recruit meaningfully to compete at any level. Gtwn should pick its spots re developing additional signature sports beyond the few that we currently have. Fostering mediocrity has nothing to do with "Cura Personalis" I actually think that Georgetown - at least as far as athletics is concerned - is pursuing the strategy you suggest more than one might think. But first, let's take a step back. The elite universities to whose cohort Georgetown aspires do, in fact, sponsor a whole hell of a lot of varsity sports. In the case of the Ivies, their academic standards mean that for the most part those sports are non-competitive at a national level, although there are exceptions. In the cases of Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, and to a lesser extent Rice, they have the money to make many or most of those teams competitive, or at least respectable. Georgetown simply does not have anywhere near that level of athletic funding, yet it is fielding a comparable number of teams. The whole "student experience" argument would make sense if these sports were populated largely by "walk-ons", but they are not. We have to be specific here about what we mean by "walk-ons." In fact, the bulk of Hoyas student-athletes are not getting any scholarship money, much less full scholarships. The number who are on full rides is quite small. So in that context, they are paying top dollar (even if not full price) for their time at Georgetown, and "student experience" does play a major role in whether or not it is a worthwhile expenditure of their time, money, and effort. On the other hand, the majority are not walk-ons in the sense that they simply tried out and won a spot on the team. For those athletes who will be getting no financial benefit to being a varsity athlete, the biggest thing the AD has to offer is a (effectively) guaranteed spot in the incoming class. Not coincidentally, many of the low & non-scholarship sports see significant attrition for that very reason - once you're in, the main benefit to you has been delivered as a one-off, and they're certainly not going to kick you out of the school for quitting the team. It's also worth noting that athletic preference spots at Georgetown do sometimes do some lifting beyond athletics. Similar to the Ivies, athletics are a way for the University to admit some extra legacies or 'special interest' kids with sub-bar academics but above-average athletics, though often not quite up to the target or existing team talent level. It can also be a way to curry and retain favor with certain elite prep schools by admitting their academically-weaker but athletically-stronger students (again, not necessarily the best athletes we could possibly get in that sport).
Now, as to the issue of "developing signature programs" as you put it... I think it's clear that Georgetown does do this, and it is not too difficult to tell which are the favored programs, even without being privy to the scholarship figures. Obviously, all our sports suffer from the facilities deficit, although some programs are impacted more directly (track & field, field hockey) than others. Aside from that, though, the biggest differentiator from sport to sport is scholarship support. This entails some guesswork on my part, so if anyone has superior insight, please correct me: of all our sports at or around the scholarship maximum, only women's basketball and volleyball could be remotely characterized as being mediocre or non-competitive. For basketball, that's a relatively new situation, coming off of the successes TWF had before she left for Auburn. Volleyball has had some success in the past, but the past decade has been lukewarm. The other signature sports: men's basketball, lacrosse, soccer, and the running program (I'll leave sailing/rowing out because of the non-NCAA complication across a lot of it). Notable national-level success in all of them in the past few years. In the case of women's soccer, the relatively recent rapid rise of the program has been quite demonstrably tied to increased scholarship support. That would be an example of a program that was outside of the historical Georgetown base of success that has been grown into a top-flight attraction. The Shaws' recent gift has gone toward helping enshrine this for the longer term.
The question we're left with, then, is whether Georgetown would be better off cutting some of those marginal sports and funneling the funds from them into developing other programs, whose rise to competitiveness would then be hastened. It's a question that has been voiced plenty of times over the years, but the answer always comes back that this is incompatible with Georgetown's goals and principles. The administration has its own reasons (some of which I mentioned above) for wanting to have ~10% of the undergraduate student body be varsity athletes, even if in many cases they're mediocre at best. Some of it is aspirational (that's how the schools whom we see as our target peers do it), but there are other real considerations behind it as well, not least of which is the enormous negative publicity that comes with shuttering programs.
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eb59
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 152
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Post by eb59 on Feb 24, 2014 3:38:32 GMT -5
My assumption is that 90% of cash donations to the program come from former players or some close relation to a former player. That said, I think that the 22 years of relationships that Rob has with past Team Captains needs to be used in a Grassroots Fundraising and Activism manner for things like pushing the AD and Healy for answers on the MSF. Rob need to ask former Captains to be in in charge of driving fundraising from their former teams (2 years in front and 2 years behind their graduation). I choose these years b/c it is the classes that these Captains had an effect on, but also so that there is overlapping fundraising from multiple years of Captains for each player. Our fundraising is abysmal and if these guys got on the phone and started asking for $500 to $1000 from all of their former teammates it would in my opinion have a much larger impact than some girl from the softball team calling and asking for money. Once this drives more money maybe Rob and the Captains can figure out a way to get the MSF built using the same grassroots pathway of former players now financially involved in the program.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Feb 26, 2014 15:09:24 GMT -5
Gtown Lax is now a very ordinary program. Time was they were a consistent top 10 program at a time when there were about 7 good teams in the country. The sport is bigger now and more competitive and we've been pushed well out of the spotlight. They haven't made the tournament in 5 or 6 years and even in their prime they only got past the Quarters once. They seemed on the cusp of becoming an elite program for a while there but no more. It also seems that the schedule that used to have a lot of Duke, Maryland, UVA and Cuse on it now has a lot of Towson, Hofstra, Furman, and Mount St Marys. Current ranking is 42/67 so we're in fact below average. For a school as appealing to preppy types like GU, in the DC/Balitmore metro area, that seems quite a failure.
So was Marino fired or not?
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Post by Admin on Feb 26, 2014 15:16:47 GMT -5
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,848
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Post by thebin on Feb 26, 2014 15:17:57 GMT -5
MassHoya has some splainin to do....
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Post by Problem of Dog on Feb 26, 2014 17:07:30 GMT -5
Gtown Lax is now a very ordinary program. Time was they were a consistent top 10 program at a time when there were about 7 good teams in the country. The sport is bigger now and more competitive and we've been pushed well out of the spotlight. They haven't made the tournament in 5 or 6 years and even in their prime they only got past the Quarters once. They seemed on the cusp of becoming an elite program for a while there but no more. It also seems that the schedule that used to have a lot of Duke, Maryland, UVA and Cuse on it now has a lot of Towson, Hofstra, Furman, and Mount St Marys. Current ranking is 42/67 so we're in fact below average. For a school as appealing to preppy types like GU, in the DC/Balitmore metro area, that seems quite a failure. So was Marino fired or not? Yes. If I were a lax alum, I'd be pretty upset with the state of things right now.
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Post by battlingbishop on Mar 3, 2014 12:35:32 GMT -5
Gtown Lax is now a very ordinary program. Time was they were a consistent top 10 program at a time when there were about 7 good teams in the country. The sport is bigger now and more competitive and we've been pushed well out of the spotlight. They haven't made the tournament in 5 or 6 years and even in their prime they only got past the Quarters once. They seemed on the cusp of becoming an elite program for a while there but no more. It also seems that the schedule that used to have a lot of Duke, Maryland, UVA and Cuse on it now has a lot of Towson, Hofstra, Furman, and Mount St Marys. Current ranking is 42/67 so we're in fact below average. For a school as appealing to preppy types like GU, in the DC/Balitmore metro area, that seems quite a failure. So was Marino fired or not? Yes. If I were a lax alum, I'd be pretty upset with the state of things right now. Coach Marino is no longer on the web-site... www.guhoyas.com/sports/m-footbl/gu-m-footbl-body.html
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Post by battlingbishop on Mar 3, 2014 12:46:49 GMT -5
Coaching Positions that need to be filled: Defensive Coordinator, Offensive Coordinator, Linebackers Assistant, Quarterbacks Assistant. Coordinator position may be offered to an existing assistant. Spring Football is not far away...
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 3, 2014 14:05:24 GMT -5
Coaching Positions that need to be filled: Defensive Coordinator, Offensive Coordinator, Linebackers Assistant, Quarterbacks Assistant. Coordinator position may be offered to an existing assistant. Spring Football is not far away... Battlingbishop: the next parent who we will get to see slowly transform right before our very eyes on this board from optimist, to realist, to apathetic.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,599
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Post by RusskyHoya on Mar 3, 2014 19:47:30 GMT -5
Yes. If I were a lax alum, I'd be pretty upset with the state of things right now. Gotta give Warne at least a few years to get his players in and establish it as his program. He picked up a Class of '21 (oh sweet Jesus I can't believe that's a thing already) recruit just today, in fact.
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,786
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Post by MassHoya on Mar 8, 2014 12:01:03 GMT -5
Splained, Lucy.
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Post by alumni47 on Mar 12, 2014 14:21:17 GMT -5
HA Attachments:
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 12, 2014 18:12:44 GMT -5
Funny thing: I was looking at Sgarlata's Facebook page, and the day that Kelly announced his resignation, Rob's page was filled with posts saying "Congratulations!"
I think that's a pretty clear sign that they had told him that the job was his as soon as Kelly told them he planned to resign.
So much for a national search.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,600
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Post by guru on Mar 12, 2014 18:38:08 GMT -5
Funny thing: I was looking at Sgarlata's Facebook page, and the day that Kelly announced his resignation, Rob's page was filled with posts saying "Congratulations!" I think that's a pretty clear sign that they had told him that the job was his as soon as Kelly told them he planned to resign. So much for a national search. You've just exposed yourself as an egregiously poor researcher AND a stalker.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Mar 12, 2014 21:20:55 GMT -5
Funny thing: I was looking at Sgarlata's Facebook page, and the day that Kelly announced his resignation, Rob's page was filled with posts saying "Congratulations!" I think that's a pretty clear sign that they had told him that the job was his as soon as Kelly told them he planned to resign. So much for a national search. You've just exposed yourself as an egregiously poor researcher AND a stalker. Okay... Care to explain?
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Post by puppydog100 on Mar 13, 2014 7:40:24 GMT -5
I rarely agree with POD, but in this case, he is right.
I had an email exchange with Kevin Kelly after the announcement of his departure to wish him well. He indicated in the email exchange with me that Rob Scarlata was the choice for new head coach.
There was never an earnest national search, just some window dressing.
But that's how things are in Hoya Nation, all smoke and mirrors.
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