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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 24, 2015 15:08:48 GMT -5
Second semester.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 24, 2015 15:17:31 GMT -5
Did staff seek to get Agau cleared to play in fall like Josh or will he have to sit until December? If he is cleared to play right away, I see him being the odds on favorite to start at the 5 position given his practice time this year. I'm seeing a lot of Agau at 5 talk, but have people actually seen him at games? He looks like a wiry 6'7, at best. He isn't Hopkins, whom I am convinced was close to a legit 6'9 by the end of his career and had a great physique. I think Agau is a 4 through and through.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 24, 2015 17:14:25 GMT -5
Did staff seek to get Agau cleared to play in fall like Josh or will he have to sit until December? If he is cleared to play right away, I see him being the odds on favorite to start at the 5 position given his practice time this year. I'm seeing a lot of Agau at 5 talk, but have people actually seen him at games? He looks like a wiry 6'7, at best. He isn't Hopkins, whom I am convinced was close to a legit 6'9 by the end of his career and had a great physique. I think Agau is a 4 through and through. Are the schedules out for Kenner?
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 24, 2015 17:28:08 GMT -5
Do not want to high jack Bradley's thread because he deserved it with his plapy against EWU. I totally agree that his play loosen up the HOYAS and let them see that the sky was not falling; they just had to relax and play. Until he entered the game, they were all playing tight, especially the frosh. As Charles Barkley says " you could not get a pin between their butt cheeks". One last thing on Agau, he dropped 20-25 pounds after he gof to Louisville, so I am sure he can put that back on with muscle. The HOYAS were ok with Hopkins playing center until they faced Xavier, Wisconsin and Kansas, all with legitimate centers.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 25, 2015 10:15:57 GMT -5
1st I'll start by saying I had no problems with how JT3 handled Brad's playing time this season, Hopkins & Smith were the better choices.. This is coming from a founding member of the "play" Hayes club.. I fully get why JT3 would have chosen Moses for PT after Smith was lost last season.. However after literally 3/4 of the BE season goes by and he still wasn't producing there was no good reason not to give Hayes a shot to play consistent minutes.. Who knows what those minutes could have done for him.. Moses avg'd 2.1ppg 3.1rpg in 14.4 minutes in BE play.. What was there to lose giving Hayes a shot he couldn't have been much worse imo.. I've posted about this before Filo, in my view the staff has mishandled the kids career so far.. Hayes came in as a late blooming young project who was hurt the summer before his freshman year @ G'town, they don't RS him but waste a year of eligibility on 14 minutes of PT.. Then they go get Josh Smith which I can't argue against but that puts Hayes as the 4th man his soph year behind Hop, Smith & Moses.. They don't RS him again and waste another year of eligibility on 51 minutes of PT.. I don't understand the sense of that.. I think JT3 is a good coach and I believe he's the right man to lead the program but as you've stated he has flaws.. I think his biggest flaw is he likes what he likes and is sometimes slow to change.. Look how long it took him to break up Josh & Hopkins this season.. That's a fair response. The slow to change criticism has some merit. I don't know if it comes into play with the handling of Hayes or not, and I guess we will never know. Another point -- and I don't have an answer, but just something else to consider -- is the role of the staff. If Hayes is doing things in practice and showing that he should be getting more PT, but JTIII is set against it for whatever reason, do the assistant coaches have any input? Or are the assistants either not giving input or their input is simply ignored? I don't know what the dynamics are, but I would hope if JTIII is just completely out to lunch on an issue that the staff would be able to offer their assessments and potentially change his mind / approach. This is a question that's been asked by myself, GPhoya, DFW & others lately Filo and it's a good one.. They're reported to be good recruiters but when you look closely only Broadus stands out.. Hardy brought in PW for 2014 but the rest of the class was Broadus(Copes was pulled by Hunter and Broadus took over when he left) For 2015, JT3/Broadus got Derrickson, Broadus was on Govan too and he was the lead for Kaleb Johnson.. Check the recruiting threads for many of the 2016 targets and you'll see Broadus is the lead for them also.. What has Hardy & Sutton really done? Not trying to throw flames but Hunter has been killed on this board as a poor recruiter but he went to Nebraska and pulled 2 ESPN top 100(51 & 69) kids for the school.. One of them, Glynn Watson is from Chicago, he's touted to be the "pure" pg so many posters long for @ G'town.. I post this because it ties into my feelings that JT3 just likes what he likes.. He's comfortable with Broadus so he uses him a lot imo.. Again, these are my perceptions from a distance.. That's just recruiting.. When it comes to game planning or player development I personally have concerns in those areas too..
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 25, 2015 10:38:09 GMT -5
One point about the whole redshirt issue with Hayes (and to a lesser extent with Trey) - do we know, or have any idea, whether B would even agree to an extra year in college? We throw around opinions that the staff should redshirt kids, that they make mistakes not redshirting players - but I don't think our program is one that would force a kid to redshirt if he did not want to. Redshirting means an extra year at school, watching the guys in your class move on in their lives without you, waiting an extra year to start the rest of your life; some guys just may not be interested. I have no idea if B or any other player may feel that way, but we can't dismiss the possibility.
Also, even if you do redshirt a kid to give him an extra year to develop - what if he never does develop into a player? You are either stuck with a recruiting miss for 5 years instead of 4, or you have to cut him loose, which may not be the style of the staff, may not sit well with the player, may be used against you in recruiting, etc.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 25, 2015 11:13:54 GMT -5
One point about the whole redshirt issue with Hayes (and to a lesser extent with Trey) - do we know, or have any idea, whether B would even agree to an extra year in college? We throw around opinions that the staff should redshirt kids, that they make mistakes not redshirting players - but I don't think our program is one that would force a kid to redshirt if he did not want to. Redshirting means an extra year at school, watching the guys in your class move on in their lives without you, waiting an extra year to start the rest of your life; some guys just may not be interested. I have no idea if B or any other player may feel that way, but we can't dismiss the possibility. Also, even if you do redshirt a kid to give him an extra year to develop - what if he never does develop into a player? You are either stuck with a recruiting miss for 5 years instead of 4, or you have to cut him loose, which may not be the style of the staff, may not sit well with the player, may be used against you in recruiting, etc. This is not Kentucky. The program is not bringing in Recruits(top 10) 5 at a time like that. Also 7 footers are hard to find. I saw Bradley as a project like Hibbert. I think the staff saw the same. But when Josh became available that whole plan was changed. Its like that girl that dates the bad boy. She always feel he will change for her. When Bradley was being signed, there was a lot of hype behind him being one of the guards that grew to 7ft. Bradley still has a long way to go. I don't see a Henry Simms scenario for him next year. This year or last would have been a good time to red shirt.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 25, 2015 11:15:32 GMT -5
One point about the whole redshirt issue with Hayes (and to a lesser extent with Trey) - do we know, or have any idea, whether B would even agree to an extra year in college? We throw around opinions that the staff should redshirt kids, that they make mistakes not redshirting players - but I don't think our program is one that would force a kid to redshirt if he did not want to. Redshirting means an extra year at school, watching the guys in your class move on in their lives without you, waiting an extra year to start the rest of your life; some guys just may not be interested. I have no idea if B or any other player may feel that way, but we can't dismiss the possibility. Also, even if you do redshirt a kid to give him an extra year to develop - what if he never does develop into a player? You are either stuck with a recruiting miss for 5 years instead of 4, or you have to cut him loose, which may not be the style of the staff, may not sit well with the player, may be used against you in recruiting, etc. To me it's simple Frazier, just cross that bridge when it comes up.. Red shirting only changes their athletic class not their academic one.. If they decide they'd rather move on after graduating, they can do that no problem.. As for not developing, again that's on the player and the staff to decide how to handle the fifth year.. See the Moses scenario.. It can't be used in recruiting G'town sticks by its players much more than the great majority of programs do..
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 25, 2015 11:20:48 GMT -5
Has Georgetown ever redshirted anyone to give them an extra year to develop? I can think of no one, of significance or otherwise.
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B. Hayes
Mar 25, 2015 11:42:33 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 25, 2015 11:42:33 GMT -5
One point about the whole redshirt issue with Hayes (and to a lesser extent with Trey) - do we know, or have any idea, whether B would even agree to an extra year in college? We throw around opinions that the staff should redshirt kids, that they make mistakes not redshirting players - but I don't think our program is one that would force a kid to redshirt if he did not want to. Redshirting means an extra year at school, watching the guys in your class move on in their lives without you, waiting an extra year to start the rest of your life; some guys just may not be interested. I have no idea if B or any other player may feel that way, but we can't dismiss the possibility. Also, even if you do redshirt a kid to give him an extra year to develop - what if he never does develop into a player? You are either stuck with a recruiting miss for 5 years instead of 4, or you have to cut him loose, which may not be the style of the staff, may not sit well with the player, may be used against you in recruiting, etc. To me it's simple Frazier, just cross that bridge when it comes up.. Red shirting only changes their athletic class not their academic one.. If they decide they'd rather move on after graduating, they can do that no problem.. As for not developing, again that's on the player and the staff to decide how to handle the fifth year.. See the Moses scenario.. It can't be used in recruiting G'town sticks by its players much more than the great majority of programs do.. But how do we know the coach did not discuss this with Bradley, and maybe even his family, early on, and Bradley was not interested in redshirting, even if it meant a greater chance to play in a 5th year? And has spirit mentioned, I don't recall us ever doing it, some programs just don't feel it is the right way to go.
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 25, 2015 11:58:49 GMT -5
Has Georgetown ever redshirted anyone to give them an extra year to develop? I can think of no one, of significance or otherwise. Bowen, Moses, Ewing, Darrel Owens under JTIII
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 25, 2015 12:01:04 GMT -5
I remember reading some statements that JTIII made about how, "ideally," we would have redshirted Roy when he was a freshman, but we needed him to play right away. That's the closest example I know of. Does this really happen much in college basketball in general?
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 25, 2015 12:01:28 GMT -5
Bowen - medical. Moses - medical. Ewing - transfer, no redshirt. DJ - partial qualifier, or whatever the proper term is. No redshirts just to do it.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 25, 2015 12:09:36 GMT -5
To me it's simple Frazier, just cross that bridge when it comes up.. Red shirting only changes their athletic class not their academic one.. If they decide they'd rather move on after graduating, they can do that no problem.. As for not developing, again that's on the player and the staff to decide how to handle the fifth year.. See the Moses scenario.. It can't be used in recruiting G'town sticks by its players much more than the great majority of programs do.. But how do we know the coach did not discuss this with Bradley, and maybe even his family, early on, and Bradley was not interested in redshirting, even if it meant a greater chance to play in a 5th year? And has spirit mentioned, I don't recall us ever doing it, some programs just don't feel it is the right way to go. We don't know Frazier, however I can't see a player turning it down especially when he has no shot at playing time his freshman or Sophomore years.. Which was the case for Hayes and it looks as though it will be the case for Mourning as well.. Never having done it in the past is not an excuse imo..
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Post by michaeldm9 on Mar 25, 2015 12:10:09 GMT -5
Bowen - medical. Moses - medical. Ewing - transfer, no redshirt. DJ - partial qualifier, or whatever the proper term is. No redshirts just to do it. To get an extra year is a red shirt. Don't care what the reason. They Red shirted. If Ewing had used his Red Shirt at Indiana he would have only had 1 year at GTown. He wouldn't got 2 years because he transferred. Owens was able to use his Red shirt for his non qualifier year. Student-Athletes are only allowed 4 years of playing eligibility. If they had 5 years on the team, they took a red Shirt somewhere.
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B. Hayes
Mar 25, 2015 12:38:04 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 25, 2015 12:38:04 GMT -5
But how do we know the coach did not discuss this with Bradley, and maybe even his family, early on, and Bradley was not interested in redshirting, even if it meant a greater chance to play in a 5th year? And has spirit mentioned, I don't recall us ever doing it, some programs just don't feel it is the right way to go. We don't know Frazier, however I can't see a player turning it down especially when he has no shot at playing time his freshman or Sophomore years.. Which was the case for Hayes and it looks as though it will be the case for Mourning as well.. Never having done it in the past is not an excuse imo.. Not an "excuse" - if we don't do it, we don't do it. That is a staff philosophy. The fact that the fans might want you to does not matter. And I can certainly see a kid not wanting to commit an entire extra year for just a possibilty for some extra PT that fifth year. Yes many kids would do it, but not necessarily all of them.
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rockhoya
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B. Hayes
Mar 25, 2015 12:52:10 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 25, 2015 12:52:10 GMT -5
Has Georgetown ever redshirted anyone to give them an extra year to develop? I can think of no one, of significance or otherwise. Bowen, Moses, Ewing, Darrel Owens under JTIII Werent Bowen and Moses both medical redhsirts?
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rockhoya
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B. Hayes
Mar 25, 2015 12:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 25, 2015 12:54:49 GMT -5
But how do we know the coach did not discuss this with Bradley, and maybe even his family, early on, and Bradley was not interested in redshirting, even if it meant a greater chance to play in a 5th year? And has spirit mentioned, I don't recall us ever doing it, some programs just don't feel it is the right way to go. We don't know Frazier, however I can't see a player turning it down especially when he has no shot at playing time his freshman or Sophomore years.. Which was the case for Hayes and it looks as though it will be the case for Mourning as well.. Never having done it in the past is not an excuse imo.. Nobody can predict the future. How can you be so sure that the players you're decribing were guaranteed not to see playing time on their first few years.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 25, 2015 12:56:54 GMT -5
Bowen - medical. Moses - medical. Ewing - transfer, no redshirt. DJ - partial qualifier, or whatever the proper term is. No redshirts just to do it. To get an extra year is a red shirt. Don't care what the reason. They Red shirted. If Ewing had used his Red Shirt at Indiana he would have only had 1 year at GTown. He wouldn't got 2 years because he transferred. Owens was able to use his Red shirt for his non qualifier year. Student-Athletes are only allowed 4 years of playing eligibility. If they had 5 years on the team, they took a red Shirt somewhere. Talk about reaching....
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 25, 2015 12:58:50 GMT -5
We don't know Frazier, however I can't see a player turning it down especially when he has no shot at playing time his freshman or Sophomore years.. Which was the case for Hayes and it looks as though it will be the case for Mourning as well.. Never having done it in the past is not an excuse imo.. Not an "excuse" - if we don't do it, we don't do it. That is a staff philosophy. The fact that the fans might want you to does not matter. And I can certainly see a kid not wanting to commit an entire extra year for just a possibilty for some extra PT that fifth year. Yes many kids would do it, but not necessarily all of them. That's fair, if it's JT3's philosophy.. The same principal worked out well for him with Owens & Pat Jr. It wasn't awful for Bowen and didn't hurt in the case of Moses.. The player isn't losing a year though Frazier, they're actually saving a year.. It's a win/win no matter how you slice it in my eyes.. I'd bet a grip of money Hayes would give back the 14 minutes of PT his freshman year for another season of eligibility .. We can agree to disagree though..
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