EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 13, 2014 11:20:20 GMT -5
My hope (expectation?) is that Bradley is told this in his end-of-season sitdown with JTIII: "Nate is gone. Moses[hopefully] is gone. We expect Josh to be back, but there is no guarantee, and even if he is back we do not know how many minutes he can give us. There will be minutes available at the 5, maybe a lot of minutes. I want you here next year. I want you to work as hard as you ever have in your life between now and October. If you do that, you will have every opportunity to play next year and to be an important contributor to a team that will be better than this year's team" +1000 Honest opinion though if Brad is your kid what advise would you give him regarding his future?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 11:31:04 GMT -5
My hope (expectation?) is that Bradley is told this in his end-of-season sitdown with JTIII: "Nate is gone. Moses[hopefully] is gone. We expect Josh to be back, but there is no guarantee, and even if he is back we do not know how many minutes he can give us. There will be minutes available at the 5, maybe a lot of minutes. I want you here next year. I want you to work as hard as you ever have in your life between now and October. If you do that, you will have every opportunity to play next year and to be an important contributor to a team that will be better than this year's team" +1000 Honest opinion though if Brad is your kid what advise would you give him regarding his future? Depends on what he wants. If he is willing to work his butt off and earn time, if he enjoys school and values a Georgetown degree, if he considers his teammates his band of brothers and wants to go to war with them - and if he trusts JTIII if he is told he will have every chance to earn that playing time - he should come back. If not, and if he wants to be promised a starting center spot and is willing to sit out a year to get it, and wants to play in a different system, he may decide differently. So I am going to "advise" my kid to decide what he wants and bust his butt to get it.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 13, 2014 11:32:23 GMT -5
My hope (expectation?) is that Bradley is told this in his end-of-season sitdown with JTIII: "Nate is gone. Moses[hopefully] is gone. We expect Josh to be back, but there is no guarantee, and even if he is back we do not know how many minutes he can give us. There will be minutes available at the 5, maybe a lot of minutes. I want you here next year. I want you to work as hard as you ever have in your life between now and October. If you do that, you will have every opportunity to play next year and to be an important contributor to a team that will be better than this year's team" +1000 Honest opinion though if Brad is your kid what advise would you give him regarding his future? I would tell him to go to the gym and put in the work.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 13, 2014 11:39:48 GMT -5
Moses did a very good job in the second half of shutting down DePaul's drives off of screens. He committed a couple of fouls but he also forced them into a few bad shots and turnovers. DePaul's surge to take the lead came on three pointers and step back jumpers (and Bowen fouling on a three pointer), nothing inside and not on drives to the rim. He had 4 fouls in 24 minutes of play, which is utterly atrocious (but admittedly an improvement for him, which is just mind-numbing to think about). He grabbed a total of 2 defensive rebounds in those 24 minutes. Depaul managed 12 offensive rebounds in the game. Cutting off a few drives hardly makes up for the terrible numbers I just mentioned imo. Well I actually watched the game, so I don't have to guess what happened by reading the box score. DePaul's whole offense for 30 minutes was Garrett and Young driving off screens and trying to draw contact at the rim. Four fouls in 24 minutes is not bad considering that he had to switch on quick guards about 20 times. Moses took Hopkins' and Lubick's minutes because he was much more effective at shutting that down. In the game thread, several posters pointed out how well Moses played on defense.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 13, 2014 11:39:50 GMT -5
+1000 Honest opinion though if Brad is your kid what advise would you give him regarding his future? Depends on what he wants. If he is willing to work his butt off and earn time, if he enjoys school and values a Georgetown degree, if he considers his teammates his band of brothers and wants to go to war with them - and if he trusts JTIII if he is told he will have every chance to earn that playing time - he should come back. If not, and if he wants to be promised a starting center spot and is willing to sit out a year to get it, and wants to play in a different system, he may decide differently. So I am going to "advise" my kid to decide what he wants and bust his butt to get it. I'm just playing devils advocate here... Would that be your advise if Moses returns?
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rpn6
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Post by rpn6 on Mar 13, 2014 11:41:47 GMT -5
The fact that people say we are recruiting kids who need to be told that they need to put in work to be successful, is a shame. Maybe that's where the root of the problem is
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 11:46:10 GMT -5
Depends on what he wants. If he is willing to work his butt off and earn time, if he enjoys school and values a Georgetown degree, if he considers his teammates his band of brothers and wants to go to war with them - and if he trusts JTIII if he is told he will have every chance to earn that playing time - he should come back. If not, and if he wants to be promised a starting center spot and is willing to sit out a year to get it, and wants to play in a different system, he may decide differently. So I am going to "advise" my kid to decide what he wants and bust his butt to get it. I'm just playing devils advocate here... Would that be your advise if Moses returns? It would always be my advice. Now he may certainly evaluate his position differently if he is told that he will be behind Moses in the depth chart from Day 1, but that would not change my advice. Guess I'm just old school; unless you are being verbally/physically abused, or the coach who recruited you leaves and you just don't fit with the new coach, I would always want my kid to honor his original decision, and work hard enough to force the coach's decision. And I believe you have suggested that Hayes should leave more than once, so that goes a little beyond "devil's advocate".
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 13, 2014 11:49:03 GMT -5
He had 4 fouls in 24 minutes of play, which is utterly atrocious (but admittedly an improvement for him, which is just mind-numbing to think about). He grabbed a total of 2 defensive rebounds in those 24 minutes. Depaul managed 12 offensive rebounds in the game. Cutting off a few drives hardly makes up for the terrible numbers I just mentioned imo. Well I actually watched the game, so I don't have to guess what happened by reading the box score. DePaul's whole offense for 30 minutes was Garrett and Young driving off screens and trying to draw contact at the rim. Four fouls in 24 minutes is not bad considering that he had to switch on quick guards about 20 times. Moses took Hopkins' and Lubick's minutes because he was much more effective at shutting that down. In the game thread, several posters pointed out how well Moses played on defense. Unfortunately I watched the game too. 4 fouls in 24 minutes is bad no matter how you slice it. 2 defensive rebounds for a center in 24 minutes is even worse - especially one who's supposed strong point is rebounding. I guess maybe we're both guilty of confirmation bias here.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 11:51:16 GMT -5
The fact that people say we are recruiting kids who need to be told that they need to put in work to be successful, is a shame. Maybe that's where the root of the problem is I don't think that we are in any way recruiting kids who have to be "told" to work hard; but at the same time, young men can have different understandings of what constitutes "work hard" vs. "work". Maybe I should have said "keep working hard". And they can also work HARD, without necessarily working SMART.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 11:54:19 GMT -5
Well I actually watched the game, so I don't have to guess what happened by reading the box score. DePaul's whole offense for 30 minutes was Garrett and Young driving off screens and trying to draw contact at the rim. Four fouls in 24 minutes is not bad considering that he had to switch on quick guards about 20 times. Moses took Hopkins' and Lubick's minutes because he was much more effective at shutting that down. In the game thread, several posters pointed out how well Moses played on defense. Unfortunately I watched the game too. 4 fouls in 24 minutes is bad no matter how you slice it. 2 defensive rebounds for a center in 24 minutes is even worse - especially one who's supposed strong point is rebounding. I guess maybe we're both guilty of confirmation bias here. Moses was effective on D in the first half, not so much in the second half. And for the umpteenth time this year, he had his hands on a rebound, only to have a much smaller player literally yank it out of his hands.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 13, 2014 12:03:56 GMT -5
I'm just playing devils advocate here... Would that be your advise if Moses returns? It would always be my advice. Now he may certainly evaluate his position differently if he is told that he will be behind Moses in the depth chart from Day 1, but that would not change my advice. Guess I'm just old school; unless you are being verbally/physically abused, or the coach who recruited you leaves and you just don't fit with the new coach, I would always want my kid to honor his original decision, and work hard enough to force the coach's decision. And I believe you have suggested that Hayes should leave more than once, so that goes a little beyond "devil's advocate". Fair enough then.. You're wrong about my suggestions though.. Before last night I never posted that and as you know I've been requesting the staff to RS Brad for a long long time.. I do think his time here has been terribly handled though..
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 13, 2014 12:06:54 GMT -5
Is the coach really this impotent when it comes to kids' worth ethic and practice schedules? Is the best he can do to tell a guy "I want you to work as hard as you ever have," and that's it? Why isn't it "You will work as hard as you ever have, or there's not a place for you on this team anymore"? Why isn't it "Othella will make himself available all day everyday, and you will be in the gym with him every single day until he is satisfied with your development"?
There may be some NCAA rule I'm not aware of when it comes to limits on practice time and so on. But really, it seems nuts to me that the coaches should give the players some encouragement and then sit back, wait, and see how hard they choose to work. "This year's centers don't seem to be very good, but shucks, they just didn't want to practice much, so I guess we'll see how it goes next year. If we're lucky, maybe Bradley will be willing to go improve his footwork, especially if I reassure him that there aren't any better options ahead of him on the depth chart anyway." That doesn't seem like a very inspiring plan.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 13, 2014 12:26:18 GMT -5
I agree with those saying that Hayes should get some minutes in the NIT game. Starting? Not sure about that. I would love to see some Hopkins - 4 Hayes - 5 rotations. Maybe even see if Hayes could play some 4 and get Moses in at the 5.
As for the Moses defense argument, he was solid on defense last night and his fouls came on contesting drives rather then fighting down low as usual. Obviously his offense was horrible and he still can't rebound but I'd keep him on the team another year if even just for depth.
For the off season (which isn't here yet), I hope Hayes hits the weight room HARD. Don't know enough about his offensive moves to say what he needs to work on but from what little we saw, he has some decent skills so lets just say polish up post moves and FT shooting, tons of shooting drills from 1ft-15ft, and defending bigger guys without fouling. If he wants to play, he will work hard. Guess we'll have to wait till Kenner at the soonest to see his work ethic.
PS Do I win the pot for the quickest mention of Kenner after a season.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 13, 2014 14:52:09 GMT -5
Is the coach really this impotent when it comes to kids' worth ethic and practice schedules? Is the best he can do to tell a guy "I want you to work as hard as you ever have," and that's it? Why isn't it "You will work as hard as you ever have, or there's not a place for you on this team anymore"? Why isn't it "Othella will make himself available all day everyday, and you will be in the gym with him every single day until he is satisfied with your development"? There may be some NCAA rule I'm not aware of when it comes to limits on practice time and so on. But really, it seems nuts to me that the coaches should give the players some encouragement and then sit back, wait, and see how hard they choose to work. "This year's centers don't seem to be very good, but shucks, they just didn't want to practice much, so I guess we'll see how it goes next year. If we're lucky, maybe Bradley will be willing to go improve his footwork, especially if I reassure him that there aren't any better options ahead of him on the depth chart anyway." That doesn't seem like a very inspiring plan. There is absolutely an NCAA limit on practice time with coaches. I don't know all the ins and outs but it is 15 hours a week, including games. Now I imagine that there's some fun loopholes, like "Othella happened to be in the gym when I was there," but I don't really know the extent of those. That why things like conditioning and even free throw shooting needs to happen outside of practice. Pre-season, they get two hours a day. Once the season starts, it's two hours a day but only about 4 days a week at most. And that's before you start worrying about fatigue. (It's amazing people obsess over 5 minutes of game time, but want the players to practice for hours longer.) Much of that time must be spent on the parts of the game that requires interaction, like offensive sets and help defense. Some of that time has to be prepping specifically for the coming team. That doesn't leave much time for mid-season strategy changes. Or technique. Much less repetition. According to the rules, the coaches can't require practice outside this time period. They can obviously encourage it. They also aren't allowed to directly tie PT to it (show up to Markel's shooting session or you don't play), but obviously they can allude to "If you don't improve your shot, you won't play -- here's a good way to improve your shot." Do I think other coaches break this second point? ABSOLUTELY. Do ours? I dunno. I suppose it is possible the coaching staff too loose. But negative motivation is not very effective these days -- positive reinforcement works much better. Or maybe III just won't sacrifice losing for this and maybe he should. I dunno. It's also possible Nate worked his ass off to improve his shot, but like Shaq, there's something so broken, it didn't work well enough.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 15:42:07 GMT -5
Is the coach really this impotent when it comes to kids' worth ethic and practice schedules? Is the best he can do to tell a guy "I want you to work as hard as you ever have," and that's it? Why isn't it "You will work as hard as you ever have, or there's not a place for you on this team anymore"? Why isn't it "Othella will make himself available all day everyday, and you will be in the gym with him every single day until he is satisfied with your development"? There may be some NCAA rule I'm not aware of when it comes to limits on practice time and so on. But really, it seems nuts to me that the coaches should give the players some encouragement and then sit back, wait, and see how hard they choose to work. "This year's centers don't seem to be very good, but shucks, they just didn't want to practice much, so I guess we'll see how it goes next year. If we're lucky, maybe Bradley will be willing to go improve his footwork, especially if I reassure him that there aren't any better options ahead of him on the depth chart anyway." That doesn't seem like a very inspiring plan. What part of "If you do that {work as hard as you ever have} you will have the chance to compete for playing time" did you not understand? And yeah, we do have to play by the rules. And maybe some of the playing time decisions the last few years, and the transfers that have occurred, are directly related to how hard certain players work. I don't know. But I have no doubt that the staff frequently makes it clear to every guy on the team that you earn time by working hard and improving. Now some players who don't perform consistently, or don't improve noticeably, may keep their minutes only because others don't improve. But I just can't believe that JTIII would ever fail to play the guys whom he believes give him the best chance to win.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 13, 2014 21:04:29 GMT -5
I don't agree that he should start, and he won't. I do agree that he should see some meaningful minutes, probably even ahead of Moses. At this point he cannot be less productive than Moses. As for Hayes vs. Marquette, let's remember that he was defending a very strong, not particularly agile big man in Gardner. From what little I have seen of Bradley, his footwork still seems slow, and he is understandably tentative; he is still thinking about everything he is doing. I think at this point he can only be effective on defense in certain situations, and his offensive abilities are still undetermined. But if Bradley messes up, we can blame it on inexperience; it will not make me yell at my TV as is the case with HAL about 20 times a night. Valid points. I just think in that one play he made against Marquette - his signature play - he showed me that he has a higher IQ than every other big on the roster, especially Moses. And to your point about his defense, once it was clear that Gardner was going to score almost at will against him, he did a pretty effective job of fronting him and denying entry. I don't think any of the Bradley advocates are claiming we have some burgeoning superstar waiting to explode if he gets the chance. I think everyone just thinks, well how can he possibly be worse than Moses? Moses is just absolutely, unequivocally, 100% a terrible basketball player, and he appears to be getting worse every day. I don't know maybe a smidge slow, but he can slide on defense and plays pretty good D for a seven footer. But dude needs to play.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 13, 2014 21:09:50 GMT -5
Is the coach really this impotent when it comes to kids' worth ethic and practice schedules? Is the best he can do to tell a guy "I want you to work as hard as you ever have," and that's it? Why isn't it "You will work as hard as you ever have, or there's not a place for you on this team anymore"? Why isn't it "Othella will make himself available all day everyday, and you will be in the gym with him every single day until he is satisfied with your development"? There may be some NCAA rule I'm not aware of when it comes to limits on practice time and so on. But really, it seems nuts to me that the coaches should give the players some encouragement and then sit back, wait, and see how hard they choose to work. "This year's centers don't seem to be very good, but shucks, they just didn't want to practice much, so I guess we'll see how it goes next year. If we're lucky, maybe Bradley will be willing to go improve his footwork, especially if I reassure him that there aren't any better options ahead of him on the depth chart anyway." That doesn't seem like a very inspiring plan. What part of "If you do that {work as hard as you ever have} you will have the chance to compete for playing time" did you not understand? And yeah, we do have to play by the rules. And maybe some of the playing time decisions the last few years, and the transfers that have occurred, are directly related to how hard certain players work. I don't know. But I have no doubt that the staff frequently makes it clear to every guy on the team that you earn time by working hard and improving. Now some players who don't perform consistently, or don't improve noticeably, may keep their minutes only because others don't improve. But I just can't believe that JTIII would ever fail to play the guys whom he believes give him the best chance to win.I have agreed in the past, but i'm not sure sometimes.
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B. Hayes
Mar 13, 2014 21:17:31 GMT -5
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2014 21:17:31 GMT -5
The players whom HE believes give us the best chance to win are, of course, not necessarily the players whom some or all of the BOARD believe do so.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 13, 2014 21:32:03 GMT -5
Why is the assumption always that people aren't working hard? Who says Bradley Hayes hasn't been in the gym all year? I only use Hayes as an example. We know DSR and Starks did extra free throw practice because they said so. Unless some of you have ties to the program and players, how do we know who is working hard and who isn't?
Clearly, we want our guys working hard to improve. Sometimes that's the answer - especially for guys who need to develop. But sometimes, hard work isn't all there is to it.
I'll throw out the cliche. Practice Doesn't Make Perfect. Perfect Practice Makes Perfect.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 14, 2014 10:33:18 GMT -5
Why is the assumption always that people aren't working hard? Who says Bradley Hayes hasn't been in the gym all year? I only use Hayes as an example. We know DSR and Starks did extra free throw practice because they said so. Unless some of you have ties to the program and players, how do we know who is working hard and who isn't? Clearly, we want our guys working hard to improve. Sometimes that's the answer - especially for guys who need to develop. But sometimes, hard work isn't all there is to it. I'll throw out the cliche. Practice Doesn't Make Perfect. Perfect Practice Makes Perfect. I didn't read where anyone is asserting/assuming that. There have been assertions that some guys may not have improved enough to earn time. Not that they aren't necessarily working hard. Then again, a guy like DSR who clearly got into better shape and worked on his conditioning and free throws and midrange, it's easy to see.
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