Georgetown's Player Rotation

[hoyasaxa2003]

This topic is receiving a lot of interest in the Bowen thread, so I figured I would start a new topic so that the Bowen thread can be used to discus Bowen. Out of curiosity, I looked back at the John Thompson Jr. years to see if the rotation was any broader. First, I looked at 1981-1982:

1981-1982 Georgetown:

Floyd: 32.4
Ewing: 28.8
E. Smith: 31.5
Brown: 25.8
Hancock: 20.7
Jones: 17.3
Spriggs: 16.9
Martin: 13.3

All of these guys played at least 35 of the 37 games. After that, there's a pretty steep drop, with
G. Smith playing 21 games (10.4 mpg) and Kaull playing 19 games (5.95 mpf). Everybody else on the team played less.

I would argue that at most, John Thompson Jr. played, at maximum, a 9 player rotation, which is really not far off where we are today. It's true that he might have given the guys at the bottom a little more time than John Thompson III does, but it's fairly minimal.


Let's fast forward to the 1983-1984 Championship season:

Ewing: 31.9
Wingage: 27.3
Jackson: 25.7
G. Smith: 23.2
Martin: 22.0
Williams: 20.7
Brown: 17.0
Graham: 13.6
Broadnax: 12.8
Dalton: 9.3

Again, these 10 played in at least 27 of the 33 games that season. Thus, one could argue John Thompson Jr. used a 10 man rotation - but that was on a team with NCAA Championship talent! Our current team isn't nearly as talented, so it's a bad comparison.

You do see a pretty big difference when looking at Iverson's sophomore year:

Iverson: 32.8
Williams: 27.5
Harrington: 26.6
Page: 26.2
Aw: 18.8
Nichols: 14.3
Toumou: 14.3
Dia: 12.8
White: 11.1
Jackson: 10.1
Owinje: 6.3

I only included guys who played 26 of the 37 games that year. Here, we see that John Thompson Jr. had a 10 man or 11 man rotation, depending on whether you want to include Owinje. That's clearly very different from John Thompson III, but again, it's hard to compare the talent levels.

While John Thompson III clearly plays a tighter rotation than his father, I don't think the 1980s teams were too significantly different, except that the "stars" got less time than people like DSR or Starks. The Iverson sophomore year rotation size is simply not feasible, I would argue. We do not have 11 guys who can contribute as well as the top 8 or 9, and thus, I think it's justifiable to have a tighter rotation.

Everybody else on here probably has more familiarity with the players on these teams, and how they compare to the current talent level, so I'll leave that to others.

[FrazierFanatic]

Good analysis. Of course Georgetown was a bigger name in the 80's and we were able to recruit more talent, which makes it easier to go 10 deep and play the bench more minutes. Hopefully next year's class is a sign that the talent level and the recruiting success are rising, which may make a difference in the rotations.

[skyhoya]

It is hard to believe that it is 30 years since we won it all

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 6, 2014 10:02:18 GMT -5 skyhoya said:

It is hard to believe that it is 30 years since we won it all

It's definitely time to add another banner. I'm not sure that is within reach this season (highly unlikely), but with the good recruiting class coming in and our new assistants pulling in better talent, I am hopeful.

[TBird41]

Can't say I watched the JT2 era teams, but the extra 1-2 players in the rotation also likely had to do with the different style of play--much more uptempo / pressing. You need more rest time at that speed than you do at JT3's speed (even if we press, I don't think we do it as frequently, or as aggressively as the JT2 era).

That being said, I thought it was probably a mistake not to get Domingo/Cameron more time against SJU.

[calhoya]

Jan 6, 2014 11:03:12 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

Can't say I watched the JT2 era teams, but the extra 1-2 players in the rotation also likely had to do with the different style of play--much more uptempo / pressing. You need more rest time at that speed than you do at JT3's speed (even if we press, I don't think we do it as frequently, or as aggressively as the JT2 era).

That being said, I thought it was probably a mistake not to get Domingo/Cameron more time against SJU.

Yes this is a correct observation. I was able to attend many of those games during my time on the Hilltop.

Big John relished the in-your-face approach--particularly on defense--that characerized the old Big East in the 1980's-1990's. In fairness to JT III, I believe that much of the distress over his shorter rotation is a function of the system he prefers on offense and defense. Yet even Big John modified his approach on offense to reflect the type of players in the system. The Ewing era was not the same as the Mutombo/Mourning teams. Reggie Williams last season was also different. I also have to admit that there does seem to be some modification in JT III's approach in recent years and I have noticed more of a push in tempo. That trend is not as evident this year on offense as the addition of Smith clearly does not support a quick tempo attack. On the other hand, this year--like the beginning of last year-- JT III is employing more pressure on defense and it is achieving results.

I like JT III's recently professed desire to go with length and quickness and more athletic players. I think it affords the team a number of options like having a perimeter defense with 6'8" players--recall Whittington. Obviously, that is not going to happen every year, but if you acquire that recruiting reputation then those players will arrive. Next, if they come, they must be worked into the rotation.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jan 6, 2014 11:03:12 GMT -5 TBird41 said:

Can't say I watched the JT2 era teams, but the extra 1-2 players in the rotation also likely had to do with the different style of play--much more uptempo / pressing. You need more rest time at that speed than you do at JT3's speed (even if we press, I don't think we do it as frequently, or as aggressively as the JT2 era).

That being said, I thought it was probably a mistake not to get Domingo/Cameron more time against SJU.

The way the refs are instructed to call games this season, the old Hoya Destroya teams would have fouled out everybody but the walk-ons by halftime most games!

[prhoya]

Short of time right now, but for discussions purposes only given the subject is rotation, how many minutes per game does a player need to be considered part of the rotation? For me, it seems the cut-off in the JT3 era is 5 mpg.