deacon
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Post by deacon on Aug 21, 2013 13:02:04 GMT -5
Why would they get involved?
You have three suspects who have stated they were bored, went out with the intention of killing someone, found a random target and carried out the crime. Since then, they have all been arrested and two of then have been charged with first-degree murder with the other being charged with accessory to murder.
I'm sure you're mentioning Rev. Sharpton because of the Trayvon Martin case, but why? There are no similarities whatsoever between this case and that one, so again, why would he in particular get involved in this?
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Aug 21, 2013 13:42:19 GMT -5
Why would they get involved? You have three suspects who have stated they were bored, went out with the intention of killing someone, found a random target and carried out the crime. Since then, they have all been arrested and two of then have been charged with first-degree murder with the other being charged with accessory to murder. I'm sure you're mentioning Rev. Sharpton because of the Trayvon Martin case, but why? There are no similarities whatsoever between this case and that one, so again, why would he in particular get involved in this? Is there a TV camera near by? Because if so, that's usually a good enough reason for Sharpton.
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Aug 21, 2013 18:55:10 GMT -5
Where is Rush when a black kid is murdered? It seems petty to call out some, but not all.
R.I.P. to the guy. These 3 guys will see how bored they are when they are housed in a small box for 23 hours per day.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Aug 21, 2013 20:48:43 GMT -5
You're a disgusting troll.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on Aug 21, 2013 23:13:19 GMT -5
Where the hell is the President? He can weigh in on Trayvon and Skip Gates, but this slaughter of a foreign student on American soil merits not a peep? Your thoughts? He's exactly where he was less than a week after the Trayvon killing, saying nothing. How soon after the shooting do you think Obama made his first public comments? It's easy to look up (not that you actually care about facts or logic on this post), and it certainly wasn't less than a week after the incident.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 21, 2013 23:27:04 GMT -5
Everyone in the country is disgusted and appalled by this. Why are you and so many others so invested in pretending otherwise? Blacks are just as angry about this as whites are, maybe more so, because they know plenty of self-righteous bigots will try to exploit it as if the two black murderers represent all black kids.
I have seen several black leaders talk about how terrible this is. The story is all over the media.
What drove the Martin/Zimmerman case into a national argument was that no one knew what happened and the local police and DA were not going to investigate because it was just some random black kid who was killed.
No one has to campaign on TV to make sure this case isn't swept under the rug.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by deacon on Aug 22, 2013 0:22:45 GMT -5
No similarity? A family is without a son in both cases. In each case the dead guy was killed by someone of a different race. Where is the outrage for the guy who was out running when shot in the back as opposed to the guy involved in a confrontation? Why has our eloquent President not weighed in? Where is the media frenzy? Why no screams about hate crime? Where is Holder's DOJ? Just asking.... Yeah, I can see where this is headed already so I'll just bow out. If you know why the Trayvon Martin case entered the national spotlight in the first place and still think there are similarities between this case and that one, then I truly don't know what to tell you.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 22, 2013 13:12:35 GMT -5
Everyone in the country is disgusted and appalled by this. Why are you and so many others so invested in pretending otherwise? Blacks are just as angry about this as whites are, maybe more so, because they know plenty of self-righteous bigots will try to exploit it as if the two black murderers represent all black kids. I have seen several black leaders talk about how terrible this is. The story is all over the media. What drove the Martin/Zimmerman case into a national argument was that no one knew what happened and the local police and DA were not going to investigate because it was just some random black kid who was killed. No one has to campaign on TV to make sure this case isn't swept under the rug. Also no self defense or "stand your ground" law* to discuss here, which was a big reason the Zimmerman case went national. *Acknowledging that Zimmerman didn't use a "stand your ground" defense at trial, despite media outlets constantly insinuating that he did.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 22, 2013 16:01:48 GMT -5
"Hey, everybody! Just thought I'd drop in an check out what's going on at the Blue & Gray Bo......."
"Oh."
"Oh, my."
[backs away slowly...closes door softly]
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 23, 2013 13:48:15 GMT -5
The Auburn football message board that I read has a disgustingly racist and xenophobic political message board which is basically an echo chamber for the lunatic fringe of the republican party. What's sad is that Elvado's arguments would fit right in over there.
It's insane that anyone can take themselves seriously when they try and make comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case about how the criminals in other cases "look like Obama's son too." Is anyone suggesting that this crime happened because the victim was white and that those who shot him were concerned with his race? Or concerned with anything whatsoever? Isn't that the point of this story? The thing that makes it so appalling? This isn't a widespread phenomenon, so why would the President make a statement? I would say that racism is much more rampant and all encompassing, as one can see from the thinly veiled racism that has become ubiquitous in criticisms of the President.
And once again, Elvado, for all goodwill you've harvested over on the main board because of your son's moving struggle, you lose any and all credibility as anything more than a right wing troll when you post drivel like this.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Aug 23, 2013 15:18:12 GMT -5
Gretchen, stop trying to make this thread happen. It's not going to happen!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 23, 2013 15:50:30 GMT -5
OK, enough is enough. It is time to put a stop to this. Once and for all.
Can we please stop pretending that Mean Girls was a quality movie in any way.
It wasn't good on its own. It wasn't good as a ripoff (like Jawbreaker was). It was complete milquetoast.
And it wasn't even "Heathers for a New Generation" good. (The way The Girl Next Door somewhat succeeded as a "Risky Business for a New Generation.")
This movie doesn't deserve to be remembered and certainly not quoted. Not here. Not on the White House Twitter feed. Not anywhere.
Now, what else were you talking about?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Aug 23, 2013 16:01:17 GMT -5
We will agree to disagree. That said, was Trayvon shot because he was black or because he jumped Zimmerman? I for one have no idea. Do you? If so, bazed upon what? I'm going to use small words so you can understand. Each crime must be weighed on its own merits, and viewed by its own facts. The facts in the Zimmerman case - at least the relevant facts (to me) - which allow a very strong (if apparently rebuttable) inference that he racially profiled TM are: GZ had made numerous 911 calls about suspicious black males in the neighborhood. He termed TM "suspicious," even though TM was merely walking down the street. He expressed concern that "these Editeds always get away." Further muddying the waters is the fact that the Sanford Police, for whatever reason, declined to arrest GZ. Arguably, no black man has ever been released after shooting anyone, except in the most blatant of self-defenses (and likely only against another minority) and it is completely unimaginable and unrealistic that one would be released after shooting an unarmed white teenager. Saying one is "bored," and shooting the next person to happen by isn't profiling. It isn't "following" (read: stalking) someone through a dark and rainy night through a neighborhood after the 911 dispatcher has "suggested" that you stay in your safe, comfy, dry vehicle. There, at least from what I am reading, was no consideration, no drawn out thought process to this shooting, which would be required for actual "profiling" to have been accomplished. Even historical evidence backs this up: Black males most often shoot other black males. Why would these three suddenly, THOUGHTFULLY (of all things), deviate from the general rule? (Which is also applicable to white males: Their victims are also generally of the same race/ethnicity.) The fact is, they very likely would not. It has been amusing in these months post-GZ verdict to watch and read how every closet racist comes out, faux-whining about how black people (especially the President; insert eyeroll here) don't come out in defense of every victim of black criminals. MOST PEOPLE, including black people, are tired of criminals of all ethnicities preying on people. I don't need to prove to you - and cannot prove to you, because you don't want to hear it - that the black community DOES denounce senseless violence at the hands of criminals of all shades. You don't actually want to know what anti-crime steps black communities have taken upon themselves, either by actual, real and visible community policing or mentoring or what have you. It would paint too complex a picture of the problem, and attempts at solutions in which you apparently think you have no stake. You would have to admit some historical root to the problems that exist, the problems of a lack of properly funded public education, and grinding, generational poverty just to name a few. You'd have to admit the part that the easy availability of guns plays into these crimes. You might be forced to look at how the criminal "justice" system fails to rehabilitate, but actually victimizes black and other minority criminals by forcing longer sentences on them specifically. I could go on, but I know your attention span has waned already.
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 23, 2013 16:18:14 GMT -5
Can we please stop pretending that Mean Girls was a quality movie in any way. It wasn't good on its own. It wasn't good as a ripoff (like Jawbreaker was). It was complete milquetoast. And it wasn't even "Heathers for a New Generation" good. (The way The Girl Next Door somewhat succeeded as a "Risky Business for a New Generation.") This movie doesn't deserve to be remembered and certainly not quoted. Not here. Not on the White House Twitter feed. Not anywhere. Boz, Boz, Boz, I don't know where to start. Are you trying to troll us too? Comparing Mean Girls (83% Rotten Tomatoes, a really well-written and casted movie) to Jawbreaker (7% Rotten Tomatoes, horrible) is the type of insane comparison that's getting Elvado in trouble here. Next you'll be telling us that Drive Me Crazy or god forbid She's All That are better than 10 Things I Hate About You. I won't stand for it.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 23, 2013 16:25:46 GMT -5
Next you'll be telling us that Drive Me Crazy or god forbid She's All That are better than 10 Things I Hate About You. I won't stand for it. Um, excuse me? You mean the Drive Me Crazy that featured Faye Grant? Greatest actress of her generation? That Drive Me Crazy? Granted, it loses some points for not showing Faye Grant in a skin tight unitard surrounded by circles of light, but every movie can't have everything. However, I will not bash 10 Things very much. Both movies featured the lovely and talented Susan May Pratt, playing....well, basically the same character. But she kind of perfected the role. Mean Girls would have been better with her in it. But she wasn't. And, accordingly, that movie sucks. Completely sucks.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Aug 23, 2013 16:37:41 GMT -5
We will agree to disagree. That said, was Trayvon shot because he was black or because he jumped Zimmerman? I for one have no idea. Do you? If so, bazed upon what? I'm going to use small words so you can understand. Each crime must be weighed on its own merits, and viewed by its own facts. The facts in the Zimmerman case - at least the relevant facts (to me) - which allow a very strong (if apparently rebuttable) inference that he racially profiled TM are: GZ had made numerous 911 calls about suspicious black males in the neighborhood. He termed TM "suspicious," even though TM was merely walking down the street. He expressed concern that "these Editeds always get away." Further muddying the waters is the fact that the Sanford Police, for whatever reason, declined to arrest GZ. Arguably, no black man has ever been released after shooting anyone, except in the most blatant of self-defenses (and likely only against another minority) and it is completely unimaginable and unrealistic that one would be released after shooting an unarmed white teenager. Saying one is "bored," and shooting the next person to happen by isn't profiling. It isn't "following" (read: stalking) someone through a dark and rainy night through a neighborhood after the 911 dispatcher has "suggested" that you stay in your safe, comfy, dry vehicle. There, at least from what I am reading, was no consideration, no drawn out thought process to this shooting, which would be required for actual "profiling" to have been accomplished. Even historical evidence backs this up: Black males most often shoot other black males. Why would these three suddenly, THOUGHTFULLY (of all things), deviate from the general rule? (Which is also applicable to white males: Their victims are also generally of the same race/ethnicity.) The fact is, they very likely would not. It has been amusing in these months post-GZ verdict to watch and read how every closet racist comes out, faux-whining about how black people (especially the President; insert eyeroll here) don't come out in defense of every victim of black criminals. MOST PEOPLE, including black people, are tired of criminals of all ethnicities preying on people. I don't need to prove to you - and cannot prove to you, because you don't want to hear it - that the black community DOES denounce senseless violence at the hands of criminals of all shades. You don't actually want to know what anti-crime steps black communities have taken upon themselves, either by actual, real and visible community policing or mentoring or what have you. It would paint too complex a picture of the problem, and attempts at solutions in which you apparently think you have no stake. You would have to admit some historical root to the problems that exist, the problems of a lack of properly funded public education, and grinding, generational poverty just to name a few. You'd have to admit the part that the easy availability of guns plays into these crimes. You might be forced to look at how the criminal "justice" system fails to rehabilitate, but actually victimizes black and other minority criminals by forcing longer sentences on them specifically. I could go on, but I know your attention span has waned already. I think the issue with your Zimmerman analysis is that you aren't putting the facts into context. There had been a major uptick in burglaries in his neighborhood over the last two years, almost all were African American teenagers. Weeks before the shooting a kid Zimmerman had reported for looking in windows was arrested for possessing stolen items and breaking into the house of a single mother with a baby ad stealing their tv. After researching all the facts in the case I don't see the racial undertones in Zimmermans words or actions that I did when they were presented to me without context. As for the poor guy in Oklahoma, I wish people would focus on the actual problems on display in cases like this instead if making it some crazy race issue. Neither of the two cases had anything to do with race from everything I've seen.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Aug 23, 2013 17:52:49 GMT -5
It shouldn't matter so much to people, but 1.5 of the 3 Oklahoma killers are white. The shooter lived with his white mother.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Aug 23, 2013 20:14:53 GMT -5
To say the Zimmerman case had nothing to do with race is to see the world through white colored glasses.
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 23, 2013 21:45:04 GMT -5
OK, enough is enough. It is time to put a stop to this. Once and for all. Can we please stop pretending that Mean Girls was a quality movie in any way. It wasn't good on its own. It wasn't good as a ripoff (like Jawbreaker was). It was complete milquetoast. And it wasn't even "Heathers for a New Generation" good. (The way The Girl Next Door somewhat succeeded as a "Risky Business for a New Generation.") This movie doesn't deserve to be remembered and certainly not quoted. Not here. Not on the White House Twitter feed. Not anywhere. Now, what else were you talking about? When I clicked over to this thread, I thought "Well, it couldn't possibly have gotten any worse." And with is blasphemy, Boz, you proved me wrong.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Aug 23, 2013 22:17:01 GMT -5
To say the Zimmerman case had nothing to do with race is to see the world through white colored glasses. They don't hear you though.
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