OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Apr 9, 2014 20:58:12 GMT -5
The fact that White, who I think will log more minutes on next years team, is ranked the lowest of the three should make us all smile. If Tre Campbell can learn the system as quick as Jon Wallace did his freshman year, then this team the next two years will be special. I say two years because if White, Copeland, or Peak perform as advertised, then look to see one or more going the Otto Porter route to the NBA. A Trey Mourning addition at this point for next year would be great, if he can hit the 3pt shot as advertised. This would let the Hoyas use him as Creighton used Graggy this year to spread the defense and open up the lane for the human highlight reel named LJ Peak. The team could help him out guarding a physical center by constantly double teaming him when he got the ball. While Paul White will log plenty of minutes next season, he's not playing more minutes than Copeland. There's a reason he's a five star. He's 6-10 and an elite, ELITE athlete, capable of playing the three and the four. He can shoot it from three and he puts it on the floor and finishes superbly in transition. Put it this way: Copeland is as good a run and jump athlete as Bowen, just four inches taller, 20 pounds heavier and infinitely more skilled. If he keeps developing, he's for sure a lotto pick in two years. And that takes nothing at all from White, who will play a ton next season and is very cerebral. I think we get three guys to the NBA from this class E end of the game he has It's great that we are all enthusiastic about each of the four commits next year. I said when Copeland, the first of the four to commit, committed, that Copeland would be a star at Georgetown, and I stand by that. However, III is a coach that gives PT based on the players ability to learn and play his defensive schemes. In watching both players on video, Copeland is more dynamic in his moves to the basket and his finishes at the basket. He is an elite athlete as you say, but White is an Otto Porter type player, nothing flashy, but at the end of the game he is among the leaders in points,rebounds, and assists. He also is fundamentally sound in getting and maintaining defensive position. Copeland and Peak will give us many highlights to cheer about, but I believe White will provide that steady play on offense and defense that will make III more comfortable with his continued presence on the court.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 9, 2014 21:37:44 GMT -5
I should stress to you that PW and IC aren't mutually exclusive. You don't have to play one or the other. Both are 3's and 4's and both are capable of being on the floor together. So say Paul White plays 35 minutes. You don't have to play Copeland 15 minutes. They can and will play a ton together. And while Paul is very Otto Porter-ish, Aaron Bowen, LJ Peak and Jabril Trawick are all capable of playing that small forward slot. At the end of the day, Copeland is very much needed for his length and athleticism and skill set. 6-10 guys who are his type of athlete and can put the ball on the floor and shoot it from 3 just don't grow on trees. His athleticism will make his transition to Division I basketball a little easier than it will for White. And the only guy he really has to contend with at his position is Mikael. Paul has a lot more competition.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Apr 9, 2014 21:43:50 GMT -5
You can go look back at the Copeland recruiting thread and see where - after seeing him in a local tournament in January of last year - I was frothing at the mouth at the possibility of him playing at Georgetown and predicted he would eventually be a five-star in this class. I say that to say nothing against him whatsoever, but White will start and play heavy minutes off the break because of how much he brings to the table. Copeland without question has a higher ceiling, but JTIII will find it very hard to keep White out of games for even 4-5 minute stretches.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 9, 2014 22:04:32 GMT -5
Now that AB is back, you think White starts at the three?
1) DSR 2) Bril 3) AB/PW 4) Isaac/Mikael 5) Josh
Think those are the five, with those two positions up in the air. should be really interesting
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 9, 2014 22:16:44 GMT -5
I would expect to start the year to see:
DSR Jabril Bowen Hopkins Josh
later in the year hopefully:
DSR Jabril White Copeland Josh
I think our rotation is: DSR,Jabril, Tre(10 or less minutes) Jabril, Peak, DSR Bowen, White, Peak, Jabril Hopkins, Copeland, Cameron(10 or less minutes) Josh, Hopkins, Hayes (10 or less minutes)
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Apr 9, 2014 22:25:00 GMT -5
When I first signed on here and made my first comment I was asked if I was a troll due to the limited amount post. Well this is my 43-post but its funny that I have a member with 6700 plus post trolling my every word. Grow up!!
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Apr 9, 2014 22:33:25 GMT -5
I would expect to start the year to see: DSR Jabril Bowen Hopkins Josh later in the year hopefully: DSR Jabril White Copeland Josh I think our rotation is: DSR,Jabril, Tre(10 or less minutes) Jabril, Peak, DSR Bowen, White, Peak, Jabril Hopkins, Copeland, Cameron(10 or less minutes) Josh, Hopkins, Hayes (10 or less minutes) If all goes well (no injuries, no dysfunctional attitudes, or academic issues) this could be a pretty deep team.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 9, 2014 23:00:43 GMT -5
If Mikael is starting, we aren't good enough
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by deacon on Apr 9, 2014 23:37:36 GMT -5
Now that AB is back, you think White starts at the three? 1) DSR 2) Bril 3) AB/PW 4) Isaac/Mikael 5) Josh Think those are the five, with those two positions up in the air. should be really interesting First of all, I agree 100% with you that if Mikael is still starting next season, we aren't good enough but it just seems like something JTIII would do, despite all of the evidence to the contrary that he shouldn't. However, seeing all of the things White brings to the table, it also seems like starting him is something he'd do as well. However, Bowen must feel like he's in for a starting position or starters minutes next season since he decided to come back, but he ultimately is what he was for us this past season, a 20 mpg player who provides energy on both ends off of the bench. If he's playing 30 mpg next season, we aren't good enough. If it were up to me, I'd go DSR, Jabril, White, Cope and Smith and see what happens, but I just see JTIII going with Hopkins for some reason at the 4, at least initially.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 10, 2014 1:03:52 GMT -5
1) I think Mikael was bad enough this season that JTIII won't have any irrational loyalty towards him going into next season.
2) Mikael is the only guy on the team capable of playing the four and the five. Having him back up both spots seems really logical.
3) Knowing how much III loves his baby - his offense - I think he's seen enough of having his offense have no spacing this season to last a lifetime. Putting Josh and Mikael on the floor at the same time is death to this offense. No other way to put it.
Paul can shoot it. Isaac can shoot it. Josh needs space to work on the interior.
I would be surprised if either Paul or Isaac aren't starting from day one
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 10, 2014 1:06:28 GMT -5
When I first signed on here and made my first comment I was asked if I was a troll due to the limited amount post. Well this is my 43-post but its funny that I have a member with 6700 plus post trolling my every word. Grow up!! ? Oh...snap you are referring to me! So let me see here. I think I have only responded to two or three of your posts. If you think that means I am trolling your every word you are either paranoid or you have yet to reach that school grade that teaches the old ancient art of math. Second of all I let you off easy in my previous post. You asked what is surely one of the most ignorant questions that I can recall which was essentially "hey, doncha think if we got a big man we would, like, be seen as a, you know, blue blood program too". I pointed out, as gently as was warranted, that being considered on the level of a blue blood comes down to winning multiple championships. For example UConn just won a championship even though it doesn't have a dominating big man. That makes four for them. They are true blue bloods. However recruiting a single big man, particularly that dude from New York that you apparently want to marry, would not put Georgetown in the same discussion with the true elites of college basketball. Raising championship banners would. To even ask the question meant you were attempting sarcasm (a word in which you will probably have to scramble to look up on Google) or you are a moron (seems more likely). I suppose I could have been kinder by simply suggesting that you are green when it comes to college hoops but since you want to accuse me of trolling I decided it would be best if I lived up to your expectations. Get a clue. How's that for trolling?
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 10, 2014 1:25:20 GMT -5
. 3) Knowing how much III loves his baby - his offense - I think he's seen enough of having his offense have no spacing this season to last a lifetime. Putting Josh and Mikael on the floor at the same time is death to this offense. No other way to put it. Paul can shoot it. Isaac can shoot it. Josh needs space to work on the interior. I would be surprised if either Paul or Isaac aren't starting from day one III's ideal offense is using up 30 seconds of the shot clock so his players can truly figure out "what the defense is giving them" and then take the appropriate action. Okay, there was some snark in that remark, but I suppose I'm tired of the drumbeat that we have to get back to the Look-For-The-Backdoor-Cut offense to thrive (daytona, that may not have been your message but it has been the message of others). Frankly I like how the offense evolved this year and that individual players were actually taking it upon themselves to drive and create more often. Who gives a bleep about spacing when you only use it to open up a lane that a teammate will spring towards for a backdoor basket? Spacing should alos lead to drives, drives and more drives. And besides Gtown faltered this year not because of the offense but because the defense wasn't up to par and quality depth went out the window without Whittington and Smith. Next of all I don't understand this notion to throw Mikael under the bus. Granted Mikael shot like garbage this past season and before, but when he was on the floor with Josh he actually would at times stand 17 feet or more from the basket. He did so because he was actually far more willing to take a jumpshot than Nate. Nate almost never took a jumpshot. When Nate was on the perimeter it was only to set screens or to toss (force) some pass for a backdoor cut basket. Thus there was more spacing issues when Josh was on the floor with Nate, than there were when Josh was on the floor with Mikael. It can be argued that Mikael looked his best when playing PF alongside Josh. Surely he looked better in that capacity than he did when he was playing center alongside Nate as the power forward. Of course I do have greater trust in Paul and Isaac to make their perimeter shots and therefore be more effective from the perimeter than I do Mikael. But funny how people weren't making the same complaint against Nate (that he could not spread the floor because he wasn't a threat from the perimeter) for most of the three years he started.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 10, 2014 1:27:05 GMT -5
If we had signed say Elbert Robinson, we'd have a top 3 or 4 class. Same could be said if we had signed Oubre.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
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Post by calhoya on Apr 10, 2014 7:12:40 GMT -5
I also hope that JT III does not attempt to "return" to the so-called system. Although the team has definitely utilized Princeton principles much of the time, the lack of an effective inside game has forced the coaching staff to modify the approach to the offense. In fact, the past two seasons--perhaps out of necessaity--the coach has shown flexibility on both sides of the ball. Using more pressure on defense, with Whittington, Bowen and Trawick on top has been effective in disrupting other teams from getting into the flow of their offense. Allowing the players to run more and this year allowing/encouraging the guards to drive into the lane to create scoring opportunities has also helped open up opposing defenses that ignored our inside players and attempted to deny the outside game. Not always effective and there were many out-of-control moments but it was much preferable to watching the team pass the ball around the perimeter until heaving a desperation shot before the 35 second clock expired. Next year appears to have more talent at every position except the 5. That position will be manned by the same players that were present for part or all of this season. Hopefully JT III sees the value of continuing to adapt his system to fit the skillset on the floor.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Apr 10, 2014 8:28:22 GMT -5
The reason why I could see starting with Hopkins at least in the beginning of the year is he is our best rebounder at this point. Based on last year Josh was terrible on the boards. We need someone who can rebound and the defend at the 4. Those are 2 things Mikael can do. He was a good rebounder last year after being a bad one the year before and by far our best shot blocker and post defender. Now hopefully Copeland can cme in and show he can man the 4 defensively and rebound, but I don't think it's a bad idea to start Hopkins.
We're deep and long enough that I expect us to press even more than we did this year. We should be able to play a better zone too with Jabril and DSR up top instead of DSR and Starks.
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jsk793
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by jsk793 on Apr 10, 2014 8:31:40 GMT -5
Completely agree Cal. This class has so much potential and elite athleticism in peak and copeland. White is a perfect fit for the princeton because he is so versatile and can do a bit of everything. And peak and copeland are both smart players that they can adapt. However, they need to have some freedom. I think, especially with this class coming in, it might be time to start a quicker system. Push the ball. Less standing around and being stagnant. I think in particular near the end of this season it was nice to see Jabril open up his game more and score more than he had. I think JTIII understands he cannot just stay on the princeton offense with the elite athletes he has coming in. I hope he changes the offense up a little bit where these guys can really run the floor
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,352
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Post by calhoya on Apr 10, 2014 9:05:58 GMT -5
The true key next year is how they incorporate Smith--assuming that he is back. He is realistically not going to arrive 70 pounds lighter. However, if he arrives 40-50 pounds lighter and is at least committed to trying to defend and get up and down the floor it can make a big difference. The pace at which Smith played this year and that of virtually every other player on the team are simply not compatible. Too many times during his career, Smith's benefit to the offense is offset or exceeded by the liabilities of his defensive effort and inability to rebound balls not coming directly at him.
I was disappointed with Hopkins too this year, but not because of his athleticism or effort. His problems are as much mental as anything. He tries and plays very hard, but not very smart. I know that it is not conventional wisdom here, but if this kid can get his mental game under control--know when to dribble and when to keep the ball off the floor, avoid the dumb fouls and practice and gain the confidence to finish shots, he will not only help his game, but could be a very real asset to Smith. He can slide into the 5 when needed. He can offset Smith's lack of mobility around the basket by providing help defense.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 10, 2014 9:23:40 GMT -5
Remember Hopkins from the Indiana game two years ago. If we can get that guy, we are in business.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 10, 2014 9:47:17 GMT -5
I actually agree that much of Hopkins' problems are probably mental (though his inability to finish at the rim probably is not). I think that became more accentuated at the end of the season when he was a foul machine and couldn't seem to stop. Hopkins has, from time to time, put out really good performances. The Syracuse-Georgetown BET game in 2013 is another one. The problem is that for every very good game he has, there are a lot more bad ones.
I like Hopkins and he seems to play hard, but he really has to get it together if he wants to contribute this year. Otherwise, if Smith is back, and the freshman turn out to be as good as advertised, Hopkins will (rightfully) see his minutes drop.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 10, 2014 10:01:47 GMT -5
Here is my question for those in the know: Does LJ Peak project as a shooting guard or small forward? He is short for a small forward, but also appears to not be a shooter. Can a lineup of DSR/Campbell and Peak at the two guard positions could operate? If so, a lineup of DSR, Peak, Copeland, White, [anyone at Center] could be downright scary in 15-16.
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