TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 21, 2013 13:36:45 GMT -5
Would anyone really be shocked to see us at #2 over UConn, especially since they seem to be emphasizing superstars? I'd take Zo, Dikembe and AI over Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton and Caron Butler/Rudy Gay (and Hibbert, Jeff and Greg over the rest of UConn's above average guys)
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 21, 2013 13:59:28 GMT -5
or #1 for that matter UNC's top 5 per their tops of the ACC list is : Vince Carter, Antwan Jamison, Jerry Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, and Raymond Felton.
total all star appearances 16
Uconn all star appearances: 17
Georgetown's top 4:
AI, Mourning, Mutombo, Hibbert total all star appearances 27!
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 21, 2013 15:08:32 GMT -5
The other option is Eammon just totally forgot about Gtown and did rank them. I remember Gary Parrish doing this one week in his Top 25 (and one). Man, I was thinking the same thing. Didn't want to post it though, for fear of bad karma.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 21, 2013 15:27:01 GMT -5
No there's no way they left us out because they included us on the list of team that have underachieved with the amount of NBA talent we've produced.
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
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Post by DudeSlade on Jun 21, 2013 17:31:44 GMT -5
So the 3 obvious ones left are us, UConn, and UNC, right? Any chance we jumped UNC too? Their top 3 are Vince Carter, Antawn Jamison, and Jerry Stackhouse (at least according to their Top 10 from the ACC column). That seems pretty weak compared to A.I., Mutombo, and Mourning. They are much deeper in terms of number of pros, but it seems similar to Kentucky in that they put a lot in the pros based on reputation, but they don't become superstars. I'm definitely expecting to be #3 though. Seems fair.
We also could be moving up soon with Roy becoming a beast this playoffs, Jeff looking like the future with Rondo in Boston, Greg as the future in Detroit (he's gotta make an all-star in the next 2 years, right?), and Otto soon to be a Top 3 pick. That seems as much upside as almost any team on the list for true star potential, especially with them being on the cusp due to performance, rather than projections based on draft position.
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Post by sdhoya97 on Jun 24, 2013 9:51:32 GMT -5
UCONN was Number 3... So we are either 1 or 2... which will it be... could we be #1....
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hoyafan23
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 290
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Post by hoyafan23 on Jun 24, 2013 10:00:34 GMT -5
are you sure? Number 3 is still not up for me...
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BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Jun 24, 2013 10:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jun 24, 2013 11:34:13 GMT -5
It's a nice honor and all, and I suppose it can only help in recruiting (although I doubt it would make much of a difference at all). But to be honest, it's also kind of embarrassing given that teams 1, 3, 4, and 5 all have 3 national titles since 1989 to show for all of that talent, and we have a solitary Final 4 appearance.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 11:38:21 GMT -5
It's a nice honor and all, and I suppose it can only help in recruiting (although I doubt it would make much of a difference at all). But to be honest, it's also kind of embarrassing given that teams 1, 3, 4, and 5 all have 3 national titles since 1989 to show for all of that talent, and we have a solitary Final 4 appearance. The article isn’t based on quantity, it’s based on quality. If it were based on quantity we would not be rated as high. We have not had as much talent as any of those teams...
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jun 24, 2013 11:48:25 GMT -5
It's a nice honor and all, and I suppose it can only help in recruiting (although I doubt it would make much of a difference at all). But to be honest, it's also kind of embarrassing given that teams 1, 3, 4, and 5 all have 3 national titles since 1989 to show for all of that talent, and we have a solitary Final 4 appearance. The article isn’t based on quantity, it’s based on quality. If it were based on quantity we would not be rated as high. We have not had as much talent as any of those teams... That may be so, although the 1989, 1995 and 1996 squads all had as much basketball talent as just about anybody, and certainly more than, say, UNC in 1993 or UK in 1998. Still, I don't think it can be validly argued that a program with as many quality players as we have had over the past 24 years has not underachieved in terms of postseason success. And that is not a recent trend; as noted above, JTII, as much as I love him, certainly did not make the most of the talent at his disposal from 1989 through 1996 (he also clearly fell off on the recruiting front, particularly with the high school classes of 1989 (Kenny Anderson), 1990 (Grant Hill) and 1991 (anyone other than Chico Church et al), in which he could have surrounded Alonzo and Dikembe with some perimeter talent so that their teams would not underachieve).
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BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
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Post by BigmanU on Jun 24, 2013 11:57:19 GMT -5
The article isn’t based on quantity, it’s based on quality. If it were based on quantity we would not be rated as high. We have not had as much talent as any of those teams... That may be so, although the 1989, 1995 (guard play was not solid) and 1996 squads all had as much basketball talent as just about anybody, and certainly more than, say, UNC in 1991 1993 or UK in 1998. Still, I don't think it can be validly argued that a program with as many quality players as we have had over the past 24 years has not underachieved in terms of postseason success. And that is not a recent trend; as noted above, JTII, as much as I love him, certainly did not make the most of the talent at his disposal from 1989 through 1996 (he also clearly fell off on the recruiting front, particularly with the high school classes of 1989 (Kenny Anderson), 1990 (Grant Hill) and 1991 (anyone other than Chico Church et al), in which he could have surrounded Alonzo and Dikembe with some perimeter talent so that their teams would not underachieve). I agree their were a lot of recruits who were interested and not picked up in the early 90's. The only teams that make me wonder were the 89' & 96' teams. NCAA's are such a crap shoot you can't sneeze at elite appearances. If they were getting bounced in the first round with that talent that would be another story. I understand your point however.
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jgalt
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,380
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Post by jgalt on Jun 24, 2013 11:57:49 GMT -5
Only one team can win a championship every year and the format of the tournament lends itself to great amounts of luck.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 11:59:03 GMT -5
The article isn’t based on quantity, it’s based on quality. If it were based on quantity we would not be rated as high. We have not had as much talent as any of those teams... That may be so, although the 1989, 1995 and 1996 squads all had as much basketball talent as just about anybody, and certainly more than, say, UNC in 1993 or UK in 1998. Still, I don't think it can be validly argued that a program with as many quality players as we have had over the past 24 years has not underachieved in terms of postseason success. And that is not a recent trend; as noted above, JTII, as much as I love him, certainly did not make the most of the talent at his disposal from 1989 through 1996 (he also clearly fell off on the recruiting front, particularly with the high school classes of 1989 (Kenny Anderson), 1990 (Grant Hill) and 1991 (anyone other than Chico Church et al), in which he could have surrounded Alonzo and Dikembe with some perimeter talent so that their teams would not underachieve). UNC and Duke combined have signed close to 20% of all of the Burger Boys. In other words 1 out of every 5 Mcdonalds All American chooses one of those schools. Georgetown has not had that type of talent, and it’s not remotely close. We’ve had 6 AA’s since 1990 Duke and Unc have had 42 a piece. statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college
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Post by JohnnyTwoTimes on Jun 24, 2013 12:07:39 GMT -5
That may be so, although the 1989, 1995 and 1996 squads all had as much basketball talent as just about anybody, and certainly more than, say, UNC in 1993 or UK in 1998. Still, I don't think it can be validly argued that a program with as many quality players as we have had over the past 24 years has not underachieved in terms of postseason success. And that is not a recent trend; as noted above, JTII, as much as I love him, certainly did not make the most of the talent at his disposal from 1989 through 1996 (he also clearly fell off on the recruiting front, particularly with the high school classes of 1989 (Kenny Anderson), 1990 (Grant Hill) and 1991 (anyone other than Chico Church et al), in which he could have surrounded Alonzo and Dikembe with some perimeter talent so that their teams would not underachieve). UNC and Duke combined have signed close to 20% of all of the Burger Boys. In other words 1 out of every 5 Mcdonalds All American chooses one of those schools. Georgetown has not had that type of talent, and it’s not remotely close. We’ve had 6 AA’s since 1990 Duke and Unc have had 42 a piece. statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college But as you know well, sometimes the schools chosen by the prospect play a role in that prospect making McDonald's AA, especially with UNC and dook. In addition, 4 of our top 6 players in that timespan (AI, Mutombo, JG, Roy) were not McDonald's All-Americans. I don't disagree that recruiting a team's worth of HS All-Americans, as UNC and dook do, gives them a depth that allows them to contend every year. But are you actually disputing that, on the whole, given the quality -- if not quantity of quality -- of players we have seen come through this program since 1989, the program has underachieved? Even if you take out the 3 nationals titles each for the other top 5 entrants, we should at least have seen more Final 4s, no? I haven't bothered to check, but I would guess that the majority of teams in this top 20 have multiple Final Fours during this time period.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 24, 2013 20:53:25 GMT -5
Is anyone really arguing our beloved Hoyas have NOT underachieved in March over the years sine '84? if so, where were you guys every March since '07? Clearly not reading the board.
It's OK to acknowledge we've had some outstanding talent over the years, won some BE conference and tourney titles, beaten many major programs, had lots of top 10 rankings, put some outstanding ballers in the NBA - but we have fallen short (luck or no luck) in March. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Hasn't stopped any of us from being big time fans of the program.
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Post by professorhoya on Jun 24, 2013 21:40:54 GMT -5
UCONN was Number 3... So we are either 1 or 2... which will it be... could we be #1.... We've analyzed the stats, sir, and there is a danger, however small that we are not ranked in the top 20. Should I have your ship standing by?
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 24, 2013 23:43:25 GMT -5
UNC and Duke combined have signed close to 20% of all of the Burger Boys. In other words 1 out of every 5 Mcdonalds All American chooses one of those schools. Georgetown has not had that type of talent, and it’s not remotely close. We’ve had 6 AA’s since 1990 Duke and Unc have had 42 a piece. statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college But as you know well, sometimes the schools chosen by the prospect play a role in that prospect making McDonald's AA, especially with UNC and dook. In addition, 4 of our top 6 players in that timespan (AI, Mutombo, JG, Roy) were not McDonald's All-Americans. I don't disagree that recruiting a team's worth of HS All-Americans, as UNC and dook do, gives them a depth that allows them to contend every year. But are you actually disputing that, on the whole, given the quality -- if not quantity of quality -- of players we have seen come through this program since 1989, the program has underachieved? Even if you take out the 3 nationals titles each for the other top 5 entrants, we should at least have seen more Final 4s, no? I haven't bothered to check, but I would guess that the majority of teams in this top 20 have multiple Final Fours during this time period. There is nothing new here to see. It has been plainly obvious. On the one hand this program should be proud that it puts out better pros DESPITE not getting nearly the amount of high profile recruits as about two dozen other programs, most specifically UNC, Duke, Syracuse and, most recently, Kentucky. Gtown sends less guys to the pros but there is far less of a bust factor with its players. Duke and UNC send maybe five times as many guys to the pros but at the same time they are getting probably ten to twenty times as many McDAAs as Georgetown does. Do the math. The results of Duke and UNC are inferior on that front because they require a much higher volume of top line high school prospects in order to inflate their NBA numbers. Again, this is not something newly discovered. This has come up as topics on these boards before. On the other hand for all the good Gtown does in developing meaningful pro players, it has not taken adavantage of those players as far as the post season goes. How does a team have two players like Mourning and Mutombo and not make it to the Final Four or not even to the second weekend during the M&M Boys final two seasons together? How is it that Greg Monroe never notched one victory in the NCAA tournament during his two seasons at GU and why is it that Otto wasn't much better on that front? Sometimes it is the other personnel as was the case in the final seaons of Mourning and Mutombo. Neglect at recruiting meant that those two big men would be surrounded by all five opponents on the floor because the other players on the Hoyas were at best three star recruits. At best.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 4:13:52 GMT -5
UNC and Duke combined have signed close to 20% of all of the Burger Boys. In other words 1 out of every 5 Mcdonalds All American chooses one of those schools. Georgetown has not had that type of talent, and it’s not remotely close. We’ve had 6 AA’s since 1990 Duke and Unc have had 42 a piece. statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college But as you know well, sometimes the schools chosen by the prospect play a role in that prospect making McDonald's AA, especially with UNC and dook. In addition, 4 of our top 6 players in that timespan (AI, Mutombo, JG, Roy) were not McDonald's All-Americans. I don't disagree that recruiting a team's worth of HS All-Americans, as UNC and dook do, gives them a depth that allows them to contend every year. But are you actually disputing that, on the whole, given the quality -- if not quantity of quality -- of players we have seen come through this program since 1989, the program has underachieved? Even if you take out the 3 nationals titles each for the other top 5 entrants, we should at least have seen more Final 4s, no? I haven't bothered to check, but I would guess that the majority of teams in this top 20 have multiple Final Fours during this time period. 42 to 6? Maybe if the margins were a little closer I would say it’s not relevant but that’s a wide margin. Postseason depends on your viewpoint, I put less stock in it than probably every person on this board but no, I’m not arguing that. My argument is what I said "We have not had as much talent as any of those (Teams)“ And I don’t believe it to be close...
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Jun 25, 2013 6:14:00 GMT -5
go hoyas number one in our minds and hearts and number one BIG MAN U whats the debate go hoyas and it IS about much more than just the bball look at the quality of CHARACTER of our hoya nba players THATS whats important and loyalty GEORGETOWN FOREVER YES FOR GENERATIONS TO COME
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