hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 21, 2014 16:01:53 GMT -5
Want to talk scandal(and I don't)? Let's talk Christie and Walker.
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Elvado
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Jun 21, 2014 17:25:05 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jun 21, 2014 17:25:05 GMT -5
POD:
Pointing out the lack of McCain's executive experience answers not the lack of any experience for your man.
He has never met a budget, met a payroll nor even run a hot dog stand as far as I can tell.
His performance in office directly reflects same. Lack of executive experience was not a disqualifier, merely an all too accurate predictor of his inevitable failure.
You can defend him all you like. The only difference between him and Carter is 4 extra years.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 21, 2014 18:02:13 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 21, 2014 19:49:40 GMT -5
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 21, 2014 21:59:59 GMT -5
POD: Pointing out the lack of McCain's executive experience answers not the lack of any experience for your man. He has never met a budget, met a payroll nor even run a hot dog stand as far as I can tell. His performance in office directly reflects same. Lack of executive experience was not a disqualifier, merely an all too accurate predictor of his inevitable failure. You can defend him all you like. The only difference between him and Carter is 4 extra years. He was a United States Senator, and the only box that doesn't check is "executive" so let's rail on lack of executive experience, huh? Wasn't Carter governor of Georgia? If that's your litmus test, wouldn't that make them very different? The executive experience test is just being used for you because it's convenient. George Bush was the governor of a large state and will go down as one of the worst presidents we've had. I guess you were very concerned when Gerald Ford became President too, right? Not nearly enough executive experience.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 21, 2014 22:55:42 GMT -5
POD: Pointing out the lack of McCain's executive experience answers not the lack of any experience for your man. He has never met a budget, met a payroll nor even run a hot dog stand as far as I can tell. His performance in office directly reflects same. Lack of executive experience was not a disqualifier, merely an all too accurate predictor of his inevitable failure. You can defend him all you like. The only difference between him and Carter is 4 extra years. He was a United States Senator, and the only box that doesn't check is "executive" so let's rail on lack of executive experience, huh? Wasn't Carter governor of Georgia? If that's your litmus test, wouldn't that make them very different? The executive experience test is just being used for you because it's convenient. George Bush was the governor of a large state and will go down as one of the worst presidents we've had. I guess you were very concerned when Gerald Ford was elected too, right? Not nearly enough executive experience. Hey man, you might want to run a quick Google search on the election of Gerald Ford. I don't think his Vice Presidency or Presidency really tells us a whole lot about what qualities the electorate considered important at the time.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jun 21, 2014 23:16:53 GMT -5
Generally speaking, there's no way in hell that those emails were somehow lost. I'm not aware of any large business that can't retrieve past emails if needed. As for the "debate" about presidential abilities, anyone arguing that the current president is worse than the one preceding him is Editeding into the wind. I'm not a huge fan of many things with regard to the current administration but, keeping that in mind, it's not remotely close. President Obama >>>>>> President Gee Dub. I didn't spell out his name because I'm not sure he could either. Call it an homage. At least he's painting now. I assume they're fingerpaints.
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Elvado
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Jun 22, 2014 6:20:51 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jun 22, 2014 6:20:51 GMT -5
Okay I will play. Putting aside his status as the most uniquely unqualified candidate ever elected, please list the accomplishments that speak to Obama as anything other than an abject failure.
One ground rule for this exercise: you can not say "he is better than W".
Not so easy now is it?
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Jun 22, 2014 7:12:29 GMT -5
Okay I will play. Putting aside his status as the most uniquely unqualified candidate ever elected, please list the accomplishments that speak to Obama as anything other than an abject failure. One ground rule for this exercise: you can not say "he is better than W". Not so easy now is it? Actually it's really easy and I'm not even a big Obama fan. 1. Stock market way up 2. Unemployment way down 3. bin Laden dead 4. Some people may not like it but if you didn't have healthcare before ACA 5. Got rid of don't ask don't tell 6. Ended war in Iraq Now I wouldn't call his 2 terms a success by any measure but it's ludicrous to assert he hasn't accomplished anything.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Jun 22, 2014 7:20:29 GMT -5
Now on the flip side
Gas prices doubled More Americans out of the work force than ever before More Americans on Disability than ever before Rampant illegal immigration encouraged by this Administration IRS used as political hatchet Iraq so bad we have to ask Iran to help Russia rampant after his "reset" Millions paying for health care they liked kicked off plans to accommodate those who don't pay for anything... 5 Taliban leaders released to obtain a deserter...
He is a real winner....
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 22, 2014 12:48:10 GMT -5
Okay I will play. Putting aside his status as the most uniquely unqualified candidate ever elected, please list the accomplishments that speak to Obama as anything other than an abject failure. One ground rule for this exercise: you can not say "he is better than W". Not so easy now is it? In other words, you want to discuss the major political events of the last six years without any reference to historical context. This should prove enlightening.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 22, 2014 13:07:37 GMT -5
For those making the "Bush was the worst president EVER!!!" case:
1. I am impressed that you did not add worst human being in the history of the world, more evil than Hitler. I have to admire your restraint.
2. So what does it say that Obama and his current administration are consistently polling worse than the Bush administration on pretty much anything of importance, including handling foreign policy, competency level and trustworthiness?
Yes, yes, I know. Polls don't matter. Only your sage wisdom.
But perhaps a dose of perspective may be in order.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 22, 2014 13:49:21 GMT -5
Okay I will play. Putting aside his status as the most uniquely unqualified candidate ever elected, please list the accomplishments that speak to Obama as anything other than an abject failure. I've voted Replublican as far back as 1980 and that still reads as hyperbole. The president is just as qualified as anytone else running these days, which is also to say, the bar is not that high for national office-seekers. As for today's menagerie of GOP hopefuls: Rick Perry: Governor, 14 years John (Jeb) Bush: Governor, 8 years Chris Christie: Governor, 3 years Rand Paul: Senate, 3 years Marco Rubio, Senate, 3 years Scott Brown: US Senate, 2 years Ted Cruz: Senate, 1 year Here are the presidents of the 20th and 21st Centuries and their chief elected experience before taking the oath, order of experience: Ford: 24 years (House, 1 year VP) Johnson: 23 years (House, Senate) Nixon: 13 years (House, Senate, VP) Kennedy: 12 years (House, Senate) Truman: 10 years (Senate) Clinton: 10 years (Gov.) Reagan: 8 years (Gov.) GW Bush: 6 years (Gov.) Harding: 5 years (Senate) Carter: 4 years (Gov.) Obama: 3 years (Senate) F.D. Roosevelt: 3 years (Gov.) Bush: 2 years (House) Coolidge: 2 years (Gov.) Wilson: 2 years (Gov.) T. Roosevelt: 2 years (Gov.) Taft: No elected experience Hoover: No elected experience Eisenhower: No elected experience, but Supreme Allied Commander was more than enough FWIW, Abraham Lncoln served a total of one term in the House before being elected President.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Jun 22, 2014 13:59:23 GMT -5
Obviously the truth is somewhere in the middle. Obama is not the total failure that some want to paint him to be. The accomplishments above are a good start. He's also made quite a few mistakes -- some of which are critical. Most important, perhaps, is that on Obama's watch, Congress spiraled into a completely dysfunctional legislative body. Much of that blame is on the steps of the Capitol, but the Obama administration did nothing to salvage matters and in many instances made things worse.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Jun 22, 2014 15:52:40 GMT -5
Like I said above far from a Obama apologist but the amount of vitriol aimed at him you'd think he drove the country into ruin.
Frankly both Bush and Obama left/leave a lot to be desired and both have received a ton of negativity aimed their way, but there is a much angrier nastier undertone to the Obama criticism that reaches unnecessary disrespect.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 22, 2014 16:39:46 GMT -5
Generally speaking, there's no way in hell that those emails were somehow lost. I'm not aware of any large business that can't retrieve past emails if needed. Read the link I posted. The policy is obviously crafted so that emails are not stored, probably to avoid emails being subpoenaed. It's obvious the emails were lost, that if there were a sane storage policy they wouldn't be, and that both political parties take any measures they can to avoid emails being stored in a legally accessible manner.
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Elvado
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Jun 22, 2014 16:58:00 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jun 22, 2014 16:58:00 GMT -5
Like I said above far from a Obama apologist but the amount of vitriol aimed at him you'd think he drove the country into ruin. Frankly both Bush and Obama left/leave a lot to be desired and both have received a ton of negativity aimed their way, but there is a much angrier nastier undertone to the Obama criticism that reaches unnecessary disrespect. I will cop to being hyperbolic in my criticism of this President but to suggest the Left was less vicious and more respectful to GWB is pure fantasy
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TC
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Post by TC on Jun 22, 2014 17:01:47 GMT -5
Obviously the truth is somewhere in the middle. Obama is not the total failure that some want to paint him to be. The accomplishments above are a good start. He's also made quite a few mistakes -- some of which are critical. Most important, perhaps, is that on Obama's watch, Congress spiraled into a completely dysfunctional legislative body. Much of that blame is on the steps of the Capitol, but the Obama administration did nothing to salvage matters and in many instances made things worse. This is the sort of criticism of Obama that I find absolutely ridiculous, and it's the kind that's leveled by people wanting to give both sides equal points rather than an actual objective take on the situation. Obama's not at fault for the House devolving into a leaderless league of lunatics or the Senate becoming an unworkable blockade of filibuster - and there is nothing he could have done to prevent it, other than possibly to have pushed for the death of the filibuster (which would have accomplished nothing for him because the House). If you want to criticize him for not pushing forward on X issue through executive power more (climate, immigration, etc), that's the kind criticism I think is valid. If you want to criticize him for going out of bounds with executive power (NSA, drones), I can get on board with that also. But criticizing him because he can't find ways to work with people who have been elected *specifically* to oppose anything and everything that he puts forward and sometimes opposing the actual idea of a federal government itself is nuts.
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Elvado
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Jun 22, 2014 17:04:36 GMT -5
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Post by Elvado on Jun 22, 2014 17:04:36 GMT -5
God forbid he be asked to be the grown up. Statements like "I won, deal with it" are beneath the office but fit him perfectly.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jun 22, 2014 19:10:09 GMT -5
Like I said above far from a Obama apologist but the amount of vitriol aimed at him you'd think he drove the country into ruin. Frankly both Bush and Obama left/leave a lot to be desired and both have received a ton of negativity aimed their way, but there is a much angrier nastier undertone to the Obama criticism that reaches unnecessary disrespect. I will cop to being hyperbolic in my criticism of this President but to suggest the Left was less vicious and more respectful to GWB is pure fantasy I thought you just said we weren't supposed to compare the two.
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