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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Oct 9, 2013 8:13:21 GMT -5
What's particularly frustrating here is that we were supposedly the clear leader for Elbert during the summer. If that were true, how did we go from that position to not even being among his last four schools? If the factors mentioned in the various posts above were truly important to Elbert, why would we have been his "clear leader?" I know these situations can be fluid, and I'm not one to scream "cheat" every time we lose a prospect, but in this case, I can't help but smell a rat. Take with a grain of salt, but both Casual and Balla had his AAU coach (same one who got Perry Jones of Baylor suspended) with his hand out, with Balla seeing it at a Nike Top 100 event over the summer. I agree that we can't cry cheat every time we lose out on someone and that fit and personality are significant considerations, but something seems to have been rotten in the states of Robinson, Noel and Christmas.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Oct 9, 2013 9:35:56 GMT -5
Well, you always have to worry about (coach and develop) the birds you have in the hand, and not worry about the birds still in the bush. In addition, nothing is yours until you have it in the palm of your hands. I don't know why I was called into question when I said this or something similar a couple of weeks ago.
Finally, we have great talent on our team. We just need to develop them. I would even go so far as to say we are a solid basketball team without any additions.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Oct 9, 2013 10:23:18 GMT -5
Well, you always have to worry about (coach and develop) the birds you have in the hand, and not worry about the birds still in the bush. In addition, nothing is yours until you have it in the palm of your hands. I don't know why I was called into question when I said this or something similar a couple of weeks ago. Finally, we have great talent on our team. We just need to develop them. I would even go so far as to say we are a solid basketball team without any additions. I agree with this. I feel we are in good shape in 2014-15 because we have a hopefully developing Junior Hayes and potentially 5th year Moses if needed. 2015 would then become critical with only Senior Hayes on the roster. Smith dropped in our lap so, I'm not to worried. These things always tend to work themselves out.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Oct 10, 2013 6:22:49 GMT -5
I think the staff should look to Moses as the number two center this year and next--if he opts to play a fifth year. The kid is strong, has a strong desire to win, and seems like an intelligent player. Josh Smith when, when he is eligible, should be our starter. Hayes needs this year to develop. But the coaches need to push him (play him significant minutes).
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Oct 10, 2013 9:09:30 GMT -5
Still wish we'd redshirt Hayes (or wish we had redshirted him last year). Can't imagine he's going to see much time sitting behind Smith, Hop, and Moses, but he'll be needed next year and going forward.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Oct 10, 2013 9:31:15 GMT -5
Still wish we'd redshirt Hayes (or wish we had redshirted him last year). Can't imagine he's going to see much time sitting behind Smith, Hop, and Moses, but he'll be needed next year and going forward.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Oct 10, 2013 9:34:12 GMT -5
I think the coaching staff knew all along that Hayes was a long-term project. I don't think Hopkins wants to play the center position. And quite frankly, with his athleticism and knack for driving into the lane, I would have to agree.
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 10, 2013 9:34:38 GMT -5
What use would redshirting Hayes do? If he's not good enough to serve as injury insurance by his sophomore year, why did we sign him? What's the guarantee that he'd stick around for a fifth year if we end up landing one of the top bigs targets?
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Oct 10, 2013 9:45:39 GMT -5
What use would redshirting Hayes do? If he's not good enough to serve as injury insurance by his sophomore year, why did we sign him? What's the guarantee that he'd stick around for a fifth year if we end up landing one of the top bigs targets? Exactly. I would be pretty sure the 5 spot-Center will be rotated between Smith (NCAA?), Moses & Hayes only this year. You have to play Hayes this year to see what you have in the future. He potentially may be the only true Center on the roster in 2014-2015. He needs the experience. Hop & Nate should play the 4
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Oct 10, 2013 9:52:03 GMT -5
What use would redshirting Hayes do? If he's not good enough to serve as injury insurance by his sophomore year, why did we sign him? What's the guarantee that he'd stick around for a fifth year if we end up landing one of the top bigs targets? The use would be not using a full year of eligibility just to serve as injury insurance. What's the point of using a full year for 3 minutes a game for a guy who could probably use the extra development time?
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Oct 10, 2013 10:09:31 GMT -5
What use would redshirting Hayes do? If he's not good enough to serve as injury insurance by his sophomore year, why did we sign him? What's the guarantee that he'd stick around for a fifth year if we end up landing one of the top bigs targets? The use would be not using a full year of eligibility just to serve as injury insurance. What's the point of using a full year for 3 minutes a game for a guy who could probably use the extra development time? Hayes is a project, not a Blue chip recruit. He needs to play in games this year to develop. If he can't play meaningful minutes by his Junior & Senior season's the team may be in trouble. There is no need to "save" his eligibility. If Hayes is a liability on the floor this year, issues will need to be addressed next off season. The team needs to know what their needs will be for 2014-2015. Does the team need a top flight Center or another project if they think Hayes can start and be productive in 2014-2015??
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Oct 10, 2013 11:16:50 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 10, 2013 11:34:44 GMT -5
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jester
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Post by jester on Oct 10, 2013 12:37:52 GMT -5
What's the deal with JUCO? Is it harder to find serviceable bigs there than guards? Seems like I see other elite teams occasionally finding someone there.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 10, 2013 15:11:18 GMT -5
[quote author=" BigmanU" source="/post/561380/thread" timestamp="1381416339"He potentially may be the only true Center on the roster in 2014-2015. He needs the experience.[/quote] This may be true, but Hopkins will still be around, and if he saw a lot of time at center last year, I'd expect John Thompson III wouldn't hesitate to use him the same way during his senior season. That said, I agree it's not an ideal situation at all. Hopefully, Josh Smith gets a waiver or Moses sticks around. That's probably our best case scenario at the position. I'm not super concerned about it, though. We have a lot of strength everywhere else in the lineup, so I think we can still be a very good team in 2014-2015 even if we don't have a great center. Really, since Hibbert graduated in 2008, we've only had 2 season with a "real" top quality center, and we've done well regardless. That said, a great big man could really complete the team.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Oct 10, 2013 15:47:19 GMT -5
Agree. In many ways a big line-up, like the Hoyas expected to have last year before losing Whittington, can be more difficult on opponents than having a traditional center. Hopkins is long and athletic and Moses is shorter but very strong and athletic. Their problems had less to do with playing the post position than with the fact that neither was particularly skilled offensively. That could change and in my opinion will change with experience. In some ways, I believe an out-of-condition Josh Smith or E. Robinson, though possessing all of the skill that you want in a traditional center, could prove to be more of a limitation than having Moses and Hopkins playing that position. Hopkins is farther along as a junior than Henry Sims was at the same point in his career. Moses is raw and unpolished but has already shown flashes of promise and will likely continue to improve with playing time.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 10, 2013 17:57:45 GMT -5
What use would redshirting Hayes do? If he's not good enough to serve as injury insurance by his sophomore year, why did we sign him? What's the guarantee that he'd stick around for a fifth year if we end up landing one of the top bigs targets? Seeing that a team can remove the "redshirt" from a player at any point in the season, Hayes can still be used if other players went down with injuries. The team has 13 scholarships and the coach barely plays 8 of them.. Why wouldn't we want the staff to be patient with a 7 ft 250lb athletic player who was brought in as a project? A kid who didn't play much in HS and was injured the entire summer before his freshman year.. A kid who just turned 19 in late August.. Hayes has the physical tools to be a productive player he just needs to learn the game, what's the hurry in getting him out of here? I'll worry about the "top Big" when he gets to G'town, the truth of it is the staff hasn't landed a top target big in 3 straight classes now. In fairness they've been tremendous with the SF types in those years..
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 10, 2013 18:03:16 GMT -5
The use would be not using a full year of eligibility just to serve as injury insurance. What's the point of using a full year for 3 minutes a game for a guy who could probably use the extra development time? Hayes is a project, not a Blue chip recruit. He needs to play in games this year to develop. If he can't play meaningful minutes by his Junior & Senior season's the team may be in trouble. There is no need to "save" his eligibility. If Hayes is a liability on the floor this year, issues will need to be addressed next off season. The team needs to know what their needs will be for 2014-2015. Does the team need a top flight Center or another project if they think Hayes can start and be productive in 2014-2015?? If the past is any indicator Bigman I don't see very much time for Hayes this year. JT3 doesn't play kids to develop them for future seasons, he's all about the present. With Nate, Hopkins & Josh there won't be a lot of time for Moses let alone Hayes this season..
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Post by professorhoya on Oct 10, 2013 19:24:57 GMT -5
. I don't think Hopkins wants to play the center position. And quite frankly, with his athleticism and knack for driving into the lane, I would have to agree. I don't want Hopkins to play center. No way.
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Post by professorhoya on Oct 10, 2013 19:27:33 GMT -5
What's the deal with JUCO? Is it harder to find serviceable bigs there than guards? Seems like I see other elite teams occasionally finding someone there. When was the last time a 7 foot JUCO center went on to a top D1 school and became a star in the NCAA or NBA. I think you have to go back to the 70s for something like that to have happened.
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