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Post by unclebeets on Mar 10, 2013 21:22:20 GMT -5
I don't get all the concern about "the college game." NBA-caliber prospects use the school for their own purposes, and vice-versa -- everybody knows the deal. People have to accept that kids on that level are "studying" to be professional basketball players. Making them stay two years rather than one will not change this, nor will it improve the quality of college ball that much.
The minor league model is at least as good an incubator of professional talent as the NCAA. I don't see why these kids couldn't take a crack at the NBDL straight out of HS, see how they do, and go to school later if it doesn't work out (screw amateurism, that concept has been a fraud for years).
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2013 21:47:03 GMT -5
I don't get all the concern about "the college game." NBA-caliber prospects use the school for their own purposes, and vice-versa -- everybody knows the deal. People have to accept that kids on that level are "studying" to be professional basketball players. Making them stay two years rather than one will not change this, nor will it improve the quality of college ball that much.
The minor league model is at least as good an incubator of professional talent as the NCAA. I don't see why these kids couldn't take a crack at the NBDL straight out of HS, see how they do, and go to school later if it doesn't work out (screw amateurism, that concept has been a fraud for years). If player out of HS cannot make in the NBDL, do you think that a school should be able to then offer him a scholarship to play for them?
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 10, 2013 21:50:34 GMT -5
I don't think you ever retire the number. Because of its great legacy you use it as a recruiting tool. Pull out a jersey with the big recruit's name and the #33 on the back of it and have a pen ready for the signing. What do you think about how North Carolina does it? They do not let a recruit touch the #23, that is their Holy Grail.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 21, 2013 7:34:07 GMT -5
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Post by nashvillehoyas on Mar 21, 2013 10:37:26 GMT -5
I still believe that a young person should be allowed to use their God given skills coming out of high school..... If students can go to work at DuPont, GM, IBM, etc, why not NBA or NFL. IMO.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 21, 2013 12:01:12 GMT -5
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DudeSlade
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I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Mar 21, 2013 12:14:26 GMT -5
I don't think you ever retire the number. Because of its great legacy you use it as a recruiting tool. Pull out a jersey with the big recruit's name and the #33 on the back of it and have a pen ready for the signing. What do you think about how North Carolina does it? They do not let a recruit touch the #23, that is their Holy Grail. I actually like the USC football model for jersey numbers. Only if you win the Heisman is the number retired. The corollary would be if you are named Wooden or Naismith POY. Then they use major numbers in their program for recruiting. #55 is only offered to guys they expect to be unbelievable LBs (Junior Seau, Willie McGinest, etc.). #42 to big time safeties (Ronnie Lott, Troy Polamalu). So in our case #33 is retired (Ewing won the Naismith). But you make a big deal of #32 (Jeff Green), #55 (Roy, Dikembe), #3 (A.I.), maybe #21 (Sleepy Floyd). And each has a significance to why you gave it to them.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 21, 2013 12:23:50 GMT -5
I still believe that a young person should be allowed to use their God given skills coming out of high school..... If students can go to work at DuPont, GM, IBM, etc, why not NBA or NFL. IMO. I think even one year of college makes a huge difference in terms of two areas: (1. maturity 2. public speaking). People wonder why we haven't had another Michael Jordan but IMO it's because the best players have been leaving right out of high school and have had their public speaking growth stunted. You look at the georgetown program. And the kids get to work on their public speaking at a gradual level through practice interviews and post game interviews once or twice a week. They also have a mentor to model their speaking off of, in this case JTIII. When I listen to these same kids speak in the NBA I can hear JTIII's style and way of speaking in them whether it be Hibbert, Monroe, Sims or Green. The same goes for kids who have had a year or two absorbing and following Calipari, Pitino, Crean or somebody else. The problem with kids jumping directly from high school is that they never get this public speaking mentorship and education and then are thrown into the fire with games almost everyday. Their growth is stunted as they are overwhelmed and never develop a good style or charisma in public speaking. I see this with Lebron, Dwight Howard, KG, etc, etc. At the end of the day this hurts the NBA product and the players popularity. Even Carmelo Anthony with his 1 year of college, you can see the difference in level of public speaking between him and Lebron/Dwight. Kobe and Amare are probably the rare exceptions but even Kobe has not ever reached the popularity of Michael Jordan because all Kobe does is copy Michael Jordan rather than developing his own style. The other problem is lack of maturity which gets kids like Kobe Bryant and Deshawn Stevenson in trouble.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 21, 2013 12:40:08 GMT -5
I still believe that a young person should be allowed to use their God given skills coming out of high school..... If students can go to work at DuPont, GM, IBM, etc, why not NBA or NFL. IMO. If you try to work for DuPont out of high school and they decide you need more chemistry courses, you are not banned from going to college and taking chemistry just because you were paid by DuPont. DuPont could even pay you to take chemistry classes in college.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 21, 2013 14:33:15 GMT -5
I still believe that a young person should be allowed to use their God given skills coming out of high school..... If students can go to work at DuPont, GM, IBM, etc, why not NBA or NFL. IMO. If you try to work for DuPont out of high school and they decide you need more chemistry courses, you are not banned from going to college and taking chemistry just because you were paid by DuPont. DuPont could even pay you to take chemistry classes in college. There are a few problems with this comparison. First, DuPont is not going to hire anybody straight out of high school, unless the person is some sort of scientific genius. Pretty much all jobs of that nature require a college degree, at minimum, so I think it's highly unlikely someone would get such a job, even if they could go back to college to get classes. The major difference is that there are no prerequisites for being a professional athlete. You simply need to be good enough to compete at that level. The unique thing about basketball is that kids who are 17, 18, or 19 are often good enough to compete at the professional level, which is not the case in many other sports (for example, in baseball). It's a tough situation. I do agree that if you are 17 or 18, and talented enough, it makes sense to be able to go into the NBA. Similarly, I can see where requiring players to go to college for a year or two strengthens their skill set and makes them more mature individuals better prepared for the NBA lifestyle. I'm not sure where I land on this, but I like what John Thompson III suggested in an interview - allow the best players to jump from high school, if they want, but if you choose to go to college, require a minimum of 2 years. I think it would greatly stabilize the college game and make recruiting easier (and for self-interest, this would likely help Georgetown since we don't rely on one-and-dones anyway).
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 21, 2013 15:05:11 GMT -5
I agree it is not a good comparison. I was not the one who made the analogy. I accepted the assumption that someone might be smart enough to work for DuPont early. I pointed out one of several ways that going pro in basketball is very different from leaving early to work for DuPont or IBM or GM. Signing with DuPont does not preclude changing your mind and going to college in your field.
Those companies also do not have a draft that gives only one of them the right to sign the top science prospect each year. If they did, they might start drafting geniuses out of prep school and developing farm systems to develop them.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 21, 2013 18:56:14 GMT -5
If somebody is smart enough to work for DuPont out of HS, that person would want to get his Ph.D. And then there is post-doctoral research. That is the way it works in chemistry. Take your BS and you are still relegated to technician status for the most part. Right out of HS, you wash dishes for a few years. Of course, the smart HS kid can work at DuPont during the summer.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 21, 2013 19:20:03 GMT -5
Of course, but that is beside the point. Never mind DuPont. It wasn't my analogy. I was responding to the argument that people should not be required to go to college if they can go straight into their chosen field without it. I didn't appreciate that everyone would want to argue about whether someone could do that at DuPont. The company or the field is irrelevant to the point. I was trying to point out that the rules for basketball are different in that once you open the door you can't go back. This is not about DuPont. Please stop arguing about whether someone could work at DuPont without a college degree.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 21, 2013 21:47:19 GMT -5
I'm sure DuPont needs secretaries and janitors. Or would they contract those jobs out to a third-party vendor?
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Mar 21, 2013 21:55:50 GMT -5
The problem is that for every Lebron that doesn't go to college and straight to the NBA, their are fifty guys who get bad advice and end up nowhere in three years, unable to go to college because they can't afford it anymore, and who just get flat out screwed.
Don't let people go straight from high school, make em go to college for two. As far as the people that go to Europe go, there is no perfect solution. They always have that option. Cut your losses. It won't be come a mainstream thing, Brandon Jennings was an exception.
Actually, now that I think of it, around the same time that Brandon Jennings went overseas, I believe a few others did. Anyone able to name them? Didn't think so.
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gahoya
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Post by gahoya on Mar 21, 2013 21:56:19 GMT -5
Also dudeslade got it right in terms of how retiring numbers go.
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