RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Apr 21, 2023 13:08:29 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 10, 2023 18:30:47 GMT -5
Update from WMATA:
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jul 17, 2023 16:47:04 GMT -5
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 4, 2023 7:05:59 GMT -5
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Oct 19, 2023 6:24:32 GMT -5
Advisory Neighborhood Commission 2E has extended its support to the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority’s plan to bring a Metro station to Georgetown. A new station would address “longstanding transportation challenges for Georgetown,” eight commissioners said in a letter to Metro dated Sept. 21. The ANC sent the letter in response to WMATA’s call for public comment on its expansion proposals. thewash.org/2023/10/17/the-metros-rail-expansion-map-could-include-georgetown/
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 19, 2023 12:20:04 GMT -5
What about the added crime and public urination? 🤣
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 19, 2023 19:33:46 GMT -5
What about the added crime and public urination? 🤣 Throughout the entire "Georgetown 2028" process I was a part of years ago at this point, only a single person brought up those concerns. The support for Metro was remarkably overwhelming.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 19, 2023 20:09:28 GMT -5
What about the added crime and public urination? 🤣 In the most recent statistics (September 2023), 52% of all crime on Metro amounts to one charge: fare evasion. Fix that (and they are) and things begin to improve. Question for the DC residents out there: much of the cost of the Blue Line involves a tunnel under the Potomac to divert traffic out of Rosslyn. Why can't a bridge (think the Yellow Line bridge parallel with the 14th and Long Bridges) be a better alternative?
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 19, 2023 22:00:25 GMT -5
What about the added crime and public urination? 🤣 In the most recent statistics (September 2023), 52% of all crime on Metro amounts to one charge: fare evasion. Fix that (and they are) and things begin to improve. Question for the DC residents out there: much of the cost of the Blue Line involves a tunnel under the Potomac to divert traffic out of Rosslyn. Why can't a bridge (think the Yellow Line bridge parallel with the 14th and Long Bridges) be a better alternative? In NYC, they recently found that +30% of fare evaders had past criminal records.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 20, 2023 21:04:36 GMT -5
What about the added crime and public urination? 🤣 In the most recent statistics (September 2023), 52% of all crime on Metro amounts to one charge: fare evasion. Fix that (and they are) and things begin to improve. Question for the DC residents out there: much of the cost of the Blue Line involves a tunnel under the Potomac to divert traffic out of Rosslyn. Why can't a bridge (think the Yellow Line bridge parallel with the 14th and Long Bridges) be a better alternative? A bridge from/to where?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 20, 2023 21:23:22 GMT -5
Across the Potomac, from Rosslyn to M Street, parallel with the Key. Similar to this one:
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 20, 2023 22:32:40 GMT -5
Across the Potomac, from Rosslyn to M Street, parallel with the Key. Similar to this one: Couple of reasons: #1. It's generally understood that the Old Georgetown Board would never allow, and certainly the residents of Georgetown would mobilize their full political influence against, any new bridge, much as they did against the Three Sisters Bridge plan back in the day. 2. The existing Rosslyn tunnels are quite deep, and in the decades since they were drilled, a number of tall buildings that have rather deep foundations/subterranean parking have been built. It would be extremely challenging, if not impossible, to bring a separated Blue Line tunnel to a level where it could come out of a portal cut into the riverbank (National Parkland, I must note) onto a bridge while avoiding the aforementioned building foundations. 3. The problem on the Georgetown side is also intractable - there's nowhere to build a portal for it to go below ground (and above-ground rail is a complete non-starter for the same reasons as a new bridge, only even more so).
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Oct 21, 2023 11:09:06 GMT -5
Across the Potomac, from Rosslyn to M Street, parallel with the Key. Similar to this one: Couple of reasons: #1. It's generally understood that the Old Georgetown Board would never allow, and certainly the residents of Georgetown would mobilize their full political influence against, any new bridge, much as they did against the Three Sisters Bridge plan back in the day. 2. The existing Rosslyn tunnels are quite deep, and in the decades since they were drilled, a number of tall buildings that have rather deep foundations/subterranean parking have been built. It would be extremely challenging, if not impossible, to bring a separated Blue Line tunnel to a level where it could come out of a portal cut into the riverbank (National Parkland, I must note) onto a bridge while avoiding the aforementioned building foundations. 3. The problem on the Georgetown side is also intractable - there's nowhere to build a portal for it to go below ground (and above-ground rail is a complete non-starter for the same reasons as a new bridge, only even more so). All of this. And I’m not sure a bridge east out of Rosslyn, parallel to the Roosevelt Bridge, is any better. While it solves the Georgetown / OGB issue and you might find an easier place to land (or even integrate with the Kennedy Center a la monorail at DIsney), you still have the problem of transitioning up from Rosslyn and you also likely disturb Roosevelt Island, which is a non-starter. Now, could you run an above-grade bridge from Arlington Cemetery to DC? Probably, but it doesn’t get you much because the Orange and Silver lines are still stuck at the same choke point, and you are now landing far south of any population (though maybe you cut up along the New Hampshire Ave alignment, for a stop at the Watergate/Kennedy Center/Columbia Plaza, then connection at Foggy Bottom, and then a stop in the West End at New Hampshire and M, before extending east along the M Street alignment that is generally discussed for the new blue line. Or maybe you skip the Foggy Bottom connection altogether and just let people walk a couple of blocks up New Hampshire if they want to transfer.. Tie this all in to plans to deck over or altogether remove the Potomac Ave Freeway stub so you can get meaningful density around the new station at New Hampshire and Virginia Aves.
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 22, 2023 8:32:55 GMT -5
All of this. And I’m not sure a bridge east out of Rosslyn, parallel to the Roosevelt Bridge, is any better. While it solves the Georgetown / OGB issue and you might find an easier place to land (or even integrate with the Kennedy Center a la monorail at DIsney), you still have the problem of transitioning up from Rosslyn and you also likely disturb Roosevelt Island, which is a non-starter. Now, could you run an above-grade bridge from Arlington Cemetery to DC? Probably, but it doesn’t get you much because the Orange and Silver lines are still stuck at the same choke point, and you are now landing far south of any population (though maybe you cut up along the New Hampshire Ave alignment, for a stop at the Watergate/Kennedy Center/Columbia Plaza, then connection at Foggy Bottom, and then a stop in the West End at New Hampshire and M, before extending east along the M Street alignment that is generally discussed for the new blue line. Or maybe you skip the Foggy Bottom connection altogether and just let people walk a couple of blocks up New Hampshire if they want to transfer.. Tie this all in to plans to deck over or altogether remove the Potomac Ave Freeway stub so you can get meaningful density around the new station at New Hampshire and Virginia Aves. The thing is, all of those concepts are not 'Metro to Georgetown,' which is one of the main selling points to begin with. I confess, I actually don't think the separated blue line is the next thing that should be built. Rather, given the disaster that is the American Legion Bridge at most times of day with people commuting between MoCo and NoVa, the biggest bang for the buck (especially assuming it came with heavy upzoning around stations) would be a line paralleling 270 from, say, Germantown down to Montgomery Mall, then paralleling the Beltway down to Tysons, ending at Fair Oaks by way of Downtown Fairfax City. It's nice to dream...
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 22, 2023 17:12:17 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 22, 2023 18:58:43 GMT -5
Couple of reasons: #1. It's generally understood that the Old Georgetown Board would never allow, and certainly the residents of Georgetown would mobilize their full political influence against, any new bridge, much as they did against the Three Sisters Bridge plan back in the day. 2. The existing Rosslyn tunnels are quite deep, and in the decades since they were drilled, a number of tall buildings that have rather deep foundations/subterranean parking have been built. It would be extremely challenging, if not impossible, to bring a separated Blue Line tunnel to a level where it could come out of a portal cut into the riverbank (National Parkland, I must note) onto a bridge while avoiding the aforementioned building foundations. 3. The problem on the Georgetown side is also intractable - there's nowhere to build a portal for it to go below ground (and above-ground rail is a complete non-starter for the same reasons as a new bridge, only even more so). I do not think the OGB has jurisdiction on the Potomac, as this goes to the Park Service. The Three Sisters Bridge was not shelved due to architectural concerns, but that it was part of the simultaneous funding for I-266 (the Potomac River Freeway, which would have built a 6-8 lane freeway west from the Whitehurst along what is now Prospect and Canal Roads to connect via the Three Sisters to I-66 at Spout Run) and the North Central Freeway, which would have bulldozed numerous neighborhoods from Union Station north to connect to I-495 at Silver Spring. "Brookland would likely not exist as we know it," wrote the Washingtonian. "Nor would Brightwood, Petworth, Fort Totten, Takoma, West Potomac Park, Georgetown, or the Palisades." Were I-266 to have been built, New South and the future Village A and SW Quad (were they allowed to be built at all) would have abutted a service road: The outflow exit onto 44th St in Foxhall was as big an issue to the gentry as the bridge itself, along with the paving-over of the C&O Canal. Combined with a slogan used by inner-city freeway opponents ("White man's roads through black men's homes") the overall highway funding bill eventually died in Congress and with it, the Three Sisters Bridge. The need for a Blue Line reroute is not a feel-good measure for a Chamber of Commerce or a development scheme. Rosslyn is the third busiest station in the Metro system (up 39 percent this year alone) and the transfer points for Orange and Silver Line transit puts an added strain on throughput across the entire network. Unlike the parallel lines of the NYC Subway, where traffic can somewhat be diverted onto other lines, Metro has no such redundancy. If they do not relieve the pressure on Rosslyn to handle 26 8-car trains per hour, it will impact the entire system. It's not an "if", it's a "when", but every delay adds to the cost. Boring a tunnel from 35th and K east to Union Station is the pressing long term situation, inasmuch as construction on K Street does not have the community outrage factor as it would on M or points north, and ground level railcars would be a nightmare on traffic. A bridge "may" address the need to reach the right elevation entering K under the Whitehurst and heavy rail is inefficient going up or down an incline. The only other option is submerging a tube to the bottom of the river and running the trains through this, but that's an environmental study (or 100) waiting to happen.
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RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 22, 2023 21:46:25 GMT -5
I do not think the OGB has jurisdiction on the Potomac, as this goes to the Park Service. I have no idea what this is supposed to mean... a bridge has to meet the shore somewhere, it doesn't just plunge into the river. And wherever it does, it would be within the OGB's jurisdiction, obviously.I am very familiar with the Three Sisters Bridge saga and other unbuilt/uncompleted DC-area freeways - in addition to being detailed in Zachary Schrag's "The Great Society Subway," there are many Greater Greater Washington and other journalistic dives into the topic (not to mention an entire website devoted to the topic by a notorious and cartoonishly anti-Catholic weirdo named Douglas Andrew Willinger). I did not claim it was shelved due to "architectural concerns" - while that freeway plan would have been far more disruptive than what cut-and-cover Metro construction would entail, the latter is still understood to be a non-starter. The need for a Blue Line reroute is not a feel-good measure for a Chamber of Commerce or a development scheme. Rosslyn is the third busiest station in the Metro system (up 39 percent this year alone) and the transfer points for Orange and Silver Line transit puts an added strain on throughput across the entire network. Unlike the parallel lines of the NYC Subway, where traffic can somewhat be diverted onto other lines, Metro has no such redundancy. If they do not relieve the pressure on Rosslyn to handle 26 8-car trains per hour, it will impact the entire system. It's not an "if", it's a "when", but every delay adds to the cost. I go through Rosslyn nearly every workday, so I am very familiar with conditions there as well. That 39% increase is over what was a still heavily-depressed post-pandemic ridership. It certainly can get crowded, but the relative lack of redundancy in the event of service disruption is a bigger challenge in many ways that actual crowding. The 8-car trains you allude to are a perceived nearer-term resolution - WMATA has to upgrade the electrical infrastructure to make universal 8-car train operations possible. The " 8carcoalition" never really went anywhere , and the pandemic plus a spate of issues with the 7000 series trains have moved the issue to the backburner, but the concept is still relevant. Boring a tunnel from 35th and K east to Union Station is the pressing long term situation, inasmuch as construction on K Street does not have the community outrage factor as it would on M or points north, and ground level railcars would be a nightmare on traffic. A bridge "may" address the need to reach the right elevation entering K under the Whitehurst and heavy rail is inefficient going up or down an incline. The only other option is submerging a tube to the bottom of the river and running the trains through this, but that's an environmental study (or 100) waiting to happen. There is, of course, no 35th and K... but if there was, it would be right here, where the Key Bridge anchorage sits. The topography just does not work.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 22, 2023 23:06:51 GMT -5
There is, of course, no 35th and K... but if there was, it would be right here, where the Key Bridge anchorage sits. The topography just does not work. Good discussion here. My reference to 35th and K, if a little jumbled, was essentially where the Whitehurst Freeway begins at Key Bridge, where it parallels above what becomes K Street to roughly 27th Street. Is there a solution out there to address these issues?
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RusskyHoya
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In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 24, 2023 20:33:32 GMT -5
There is, of course, no 35th and K... but if there was, it would be right here, where the Key Bridge anchorage sits. The topography just does not work. Good discussion here. My reference to 35th and K, if a little jumbled, was essentially where the Whitehurst Freeway begins at Key Bridge, where it parallels above what becomes K Street to roughly 27th Street. Is there a solution out there to address these issues? The only real solution is to bore a tunnel, which is why that has always been the only option ever studied. A buried tube won't work, as the Potomac is far too shallow there - drilling below the riverbed is the only way to go.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Oct 25, 2023 8:39:25 GMT -5
Oof. As a daily rider, I’m hard pressed to think of something more challenging than riding on the grade of that kind of tunnel. It would be fun biking downhill to the bottom of the riverbed, but the uphill on the back would be like a Tour de France mountain stage!
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