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Post by profquigley on Jan 22, 2013 10:08:57 GMT -5
I have been to a lot of those ugly wins and agree that it is painful watching them. But with the right players those ugly wins are quickly forgotten when the team gets it together. I'm probably being too optimistic (this Saturday will tell) but I think DSR adds so much to this team that come March, if Whit returns, we will be in good shape for a deep run. Can you imagine DSR as a junior or senior?
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 22, 2013 10:23:20 GMT -5
I know Harangody. You sir, are not Harangody. I forget, which Commandment is this? ;D
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Jan 22, 2013 10:25:35 GMT -5
I do not think that it is fair to the kids (or the coaches) to say the problem is the failure to recruit quality players. JT III has been very involved in recruiting the best players in the nation, particularly at the big positions. He simply has not brought enough of them to the team. Could this be a consequence of not having the right staff recruiting these top players? JT3 personally can do so much, but it's up to him to evaluate his recruiting assistants and their success rate. RDF is in sabbatical and could help with this from a perspective of the recruited players and their families, but it's been pointed out time and again. But, the Thompsons are smart, stubborn and loyal. Will JT3 change staff members? If so, how long will it take? Does one success case eclipse ten failures? Answering some of these questions would violate Board rules.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 22, 2013 10:46:15 GMT -5
Ok I could be way off here but did anybody else think that JT3 keep Hopkins in the game when he was in foul trouble just so he would foul out.Then he could give Ayegba more playing time just to see what the big guy can do.Again im probably wrong but I was just thinking how he left Hopkins in there so long tonight. While it was partially this, I also believe that it was JTIII putting Hop in a no-mistake position. He had the luxury of a performing Moses so why not leave Hop in the flow of the game and try to get him using his head.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 22, 2013 10:47:20 GMT -5
"We need to recruit better for this offense." This keeps being posted time and time again. Maybe, recruits do not want to come because of the offense. Yes it can be successful but if the recruits don't come or it takes the recruits too long to learn the offense then maybe the offense and our coach need to change. I also think it is fair for those of us who are fans of the program and the school to state we don't find Georgetown's offensive brand of basketball entertaining. Yes, we did beat ND at home ... good win. The question is whether these results will consistently be reproducible. We need to see wins against teams that are firing on all cylinders. Yes, ND offensive ineptitude was, in part, due to our defense but when is the last time we won against a team playing at the top of their game? Exactly. And for those who say "an ugly win is still a win", that's absolutely true. But we don't win enough to overlook how awful it is to watch us on offense at times.
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Post by centercourt400s on Jan 22, 2013 10:59:10 GMT -5
Occam's Razor: Among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.
Low scoring offense? Hypothesis = very inexperienced team running semi-advanced offensive system. Recent volatility? Hypothesis = the loss (and in the case of Pittsburgh the impending loss) of one of the team's 5 starters who was one of the more talented players, the 2nd highest scorer and 2nd leading rebounder.
Sometimes the answers are easy.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 22, 2013 11:05:07 GMT -5
I think people are taking this way too far. Again, please use examples of basketball games that have showcased complete offensive and defensive juggernautry this season. Would you refer to the Cincinnati-Syracuse game which was 22-18 at half time? and 57-55 as a final? There were bricks flying all over the place. The Butler-Zaga and Lville-Syr games were entertaining, but mainly because they were close. None of those teams were putting on a clinic of half court offense. The fact of it is, this is the nature of college basketball. The talent is spread across too many different teams. When Butler, Gonzaga and VCU are recruiting hotspots with elite 8 caliber teams, we are not going to be able to pick up two 4-5 star recruits every season.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 22, 2013 11:07:38 GMT -5
Man, some of you guys are real downers. We have a lot of problems, but we just played well against a good team and came away with a win that no one thought was likely (at least after Saturday's debacle).
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 22, 2013 11:12:04 GMT -5
Guess a win didn't bring everyone off the ledge. Too bad we've already lost some over the edge. This years team is not like previous JT3 teams, it is defensively focused. We are a very young team that doesn't have upperclassmen; That leads to our offense being played ugly since the players don't make all the reads fluidly and automatically. In fact I am happy that JTIII first focused on defense with this team because that is what will win us games this year. Our players are still learning and refining the offense and it will come around.
Are we working with some sub-par players, yes, especially down low. But to blame that on JT3 is ridiculous, recruiting is very fickle and he has gone after the top targets. Yes, our offense would be light years better with a 5 that can hit the elbow shot and drive from there. Unfortunately we don't have one of those this year so coach has emphasized defense to cover our deficiencies.
If you're willing to give up on the team because we are playing ugly basketball at times this year, I'm sorry. This isn't the NBA, you don't get to draft/sign whoever you want. You don't get a team consisting only of the cream of the crop. Yes JTIII is stubborn but he is a great coach and coaches to the players he has, not the ones we wish he got.
We've all seen this current team for two years now and everyone is ready to declare them offensively inept. Personally I think this is nonsense. They ARE young (even if we are familiar with them) and WILL improve on offense (and D). Will the lack of a true post threat hurt us? Probably but this isn't the first season where, due to unforeseeable events, we don't have an offensively effective 5.
The Jeff/Roy/Jon that everyone loves were Jr/Sr year by the time they were running the offense effectively all the time (well after it clicked at the Duke game). As awesome as Jeff was, he wasn't a top 5 pick before his Jr year and our run to the FF.
I agree that this team looks ugly at this time but I feel bad for anyone that is giving up on the team for that reason.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 22, 2013 11:12:44 GMT -5
Occam's Razor: Among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected. Low scoring offense? Hypotheses = very inexperienced team running semi-advanced offensive system. Recent volatility? Hypotheses = the loss (and in the case of Pittsburgh the impending loss) of one of the team's 5 starters who was one of the more talented players, the 2nd highest scorer and 2nd leading rebounder. Sometimes the answers are easy. Exactly!
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 22, 2013 11:17:23 GMT -5
Guess a win didn't bring everyone off the ledge. Too bad we've already lost some over the edge. This years team is not like previous JT3 teams, it is defensively focused. We are a very young team that doesn't have upperclassmen; That leads to our offense being played ugly since the players don't make all the reads fluidly and automatically. In fact I am happy that JTIII first focused on defense with this team because that is what will win us games this year. Our players are still learning and refining the offense and it will come around. Are we working with some sub-par players, yes, especially down low. But to blame that on JT3 is ridiculous, recruiting is very fickle and he has gone after the top targets. Yes, our offense would be light years better with a 5 that can hit the elbow shot and drive from there. Unfortunately we don't have one of those this year so coach has emphasized defense to cover our deficiencies. If you're willing to give up on the team because we are playing ugly basketball at times this year, I'm sorry. This isn't the NBA, you don't get to draft/sign whoever you want. You don't get a team consisting only of the cream of the crop. Yes JTIII is stubborn but he is a great coach and coaches to the players he has, not the ones we wish he got. We've all seen this current team for two years now and everyone is ready to declare them offensively inept. Personally I think this is nonsense. They ARE young (even if we are familiar with them) and WILL improve on offense (and D). Will the lack of a true post threat hurt us? Probably but this isn't the first season where, due to unforeseeable events, we don't have an offensively effective 5. The Jeff/Roy/Jon that everyone loves were Jr/Sr year by the time they were running the offense effectively all the time (well after it clicked at the Duke game). As awesome as Jeff was, he wasn't a top 5 pick before his Jr year and our run to the FF. I agree that this team looks ugly at this time but I feel bad for anyone that is giving up on the team for that reason. The game before beating Duke in 2006, the Hoyas scored 50 points against South Florida at home.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Jan 22, 2013 11:21:43 GMT -5
This is by far the least productive offense on a JT3 Hoya team ever. And in terms of offensive efficiency, we're still ranked 63 spots ahead of the 2004 Hoyas under Craig Esherick (146th vs. 209th).
#neverforget
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 22, 2013 11:29:09 GMT -5
The commandment for that shot of moses is MOSES WILL LEAD US TO THE MOUNTAINTOP YUP ten rebbies and helped shut down cooley ps hops did aok vs him also despite the fouls yup centers one and all. go hoyas beat the ville A + game needed by all for forty minutes or MORE. ;D ;D
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 22, 2013 11:30:01 GMT -5
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 22, 2013 11:30:42 GMT -5
ice and strong too just like reported in the kenner coming along JUST FINE. oak hill player member? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 22, 2013 11:38:45 GMT -5
My feeling is that the offense is working better for a few reasons:
(1) Hopkins is seeing less time and usage. Hopkins usage had been so high and his offensive efficiency so low, that simply not playing (or using) Hopkins as much is a net positive for the offense. It seems that Hopkins has been instructed not to shoot nearly as much, and that's been important.
(2) Otto Porter seems to be taking a more prominent role in the offense. His usage seems to be rising, and he continues to be a great offensive player. Whittington's absence has allowed (or forced) Porter to take a larger role, and I think that's been a net positive.
(3) Starks seems to be taking a more prominent role as well, but thus far, he seems streaky. He will have stretches of greatness and other stretches where he seems to disappear for a time. Starks keeping up his play is probably key for the rest of the season.
(4) DSR's increased role in the offense has also been huge. Again, I think that this has been partially the result of Whittington's absence, but DSR needs to continue to have a larger role in the offense, even when Whittington comes back. DSR is possibly the second best offensive player we have, and he's definitely better on offense than Whittington (not saying on defense or overall, but he has clearly played better on offense).
If these four things continue into the future, I think our offense will be improved by default. It may not work as well as it did against Notre Dame every game, but I also think it should be better than what we had against Pittsburgh.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 22, 2013 11:49:51 GMT -5
Guess the Hoyas have to win by 50 points and run up and down the court for some to be happy. We beat the tar out of the Irish at South Bend and people are still complaining? Give me a break.
And, RDF, bye. I will not miss your insults nor your know-it-all attitude.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Jan 22, 2013 12:03:33 GMT -5
We all go a little mad sometimes...haven't you?
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Post by wildhoya on Jan 22, 2013 12:06:03 GMT -5
Please don't go!! WWAAAAAH
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 22, 2013 12:20:33 GMT -5
I know Harangody. You sir, are not Harangody. I forget, which Commandment is this? ;D Thou shalt get that weak crap out of my house.
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