Freezing the shooter-question for the board

[Deleted]

I was watching the Seattle Atlanta football game and once again, a time out was called to "FREEZE" the kicker and once again, it backfired. (I have never seen it work in football). However, it frequently works in basketball, such as when Greg W had one more foul shot to make to tie the score in the Marquette game. Is it nerves?? Is it thinking about the shot?? I don't think it is either. It is leaving the court, sitting down and losing the groove you were in.

I have always felt that the foul shooter, instead of going off the court, should actually stay on the foul line and have one of the other players feed him the ball, so he can continue to shoot foul shots and stay in a groove. I have never seen this done. However, to me it makes sense.

What do you guys think??

[nychoya3]

I'm almost positive you aren't allowed to practice shooting during time outs. Sometimes guys take one shot after the whistle, but I've never seen anyone do that with free throws or any other kind of shot. Don't you have to return to your bench during a time out?

Also, I don't think there's any actual evidence freezing the shooter works in basketball any more than it does it football for a kicker. Greg missed the third, but it's not like he's Ray Allen from the FT line.

[HoyaPride]

Funny you mention that, because in one of the football games this weekend, the kicker went onto the field during a timeout (not used to freeze him) but as the team was driving- to practice. It wasnt with the long snapper and holder but rather a staff member, looked like a trainer. The Refs stood and watched and the commentators said that they had never seen that before, neither had I.
It would make sense. I wouldn't be surprised if you started seeing it more often (in football)
Not sure about the rule in basketball

[SFHoya99]

It's not legal in football, but there's also no penalty for it, according to what I've read. In other words, the refs should have stopped it.

[lichoya68]

ask the refs adn try it sounds good to me go ;D hoyas

[nychoya3]

From the NCAA rule book:

Art. 2. During any timeout or before any extra period, bench personnel and players shall locate themselves inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.

[DoctorHoya]

Jan 15, 2013 9:59:58 GMT -5 HoyaPride said:

Funny you mention that, because in one of the football games this weekend, the kicker went onto the field during a timeout (not used to freeze him) but as the team was driving- to practice. It wasnt with the long snapper and holder but rather a staff member, looked like a trainer. The Refs stood and watched and the commentators said that they had never seen that before, neither had I.
It would make sense. I wouldn't be surprised if you started seeing it more often (in football)
Not sure about the rule in basketball

It happened in the ravens-broncos game

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2013 10:45:12 GMT -5 nychoya3 said:

From the NCAA rule book:

Art. 2. During any timeout or before any extra period, bench personnel and players shall locate themselves inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.

Well so much for that idea

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Jan 15, 2013 9:32:06 GMT -5 @jerrylh said:

I was watching the Seattle Atlanta football game and once again, a time out was called to "FREEZE" the kicker and once again, it backfired. (I have never seen it work in football). However, it frequently works in basketball, such as when Greg W had one more foul shot to make to tie the score in the Marquette game. Is it nerves?? Is it thinking about the shot?? I don't think it is either. It is leaving the court, sitting down and losing the groove you were in.

I have always felt that the foul shooter, instead of going off the court, should actually stay on the foul line and have one of the other players feed him the ball, so he can continue to shoot foul shots and stay in a groove. I have never seen this done. However, to me it makes sense.

What do you guys think??

I thought about that also...I don't think you could have anyone feeding him the ball but the player can stay on the foul line and work on his form & focusness to make the crucial foul shot...

[RDF]

Can't compare the sports either--because football wise the team's who take the timeouts are not "freezing" the kicker as much as attempting to set up a play to try and block the kick. Does it work? Rarely-but they want to see the alignment and try and come up with best plan to do this--and with Seattle it made sense because they are one of the best kick blocking teams in NFL. I'd compare it more to late game situation in possession game where team takes a timeout after seeing what set the opponent with the ball has come out of their timeout with rather then a FT situation.

[glidehoyas (Inactive)]

Jan 15, 2013 9:56:13 GMT -5 nychoya3 said:

I'm almost positive you aren't allowed to practice shooting during time outs. Sometimes guys take one shot after the whistle, but I've never seen anyone do that with free throws or any other kind of shot. Don't you have to return to your bench during a time out?

Also, I don't think there's any actual evidence freezing the shooter works in basketball any more than it does it football for a kicker. Greg missed the third, but it's not like he's Ray Allen from the FT line.

Buzz's freeze was right on point...that was some very strategic coaching...you don't see many coaches to this at crucial times in the game...I've done it and won...

[rosslynhoya]

Jan 15, 2013 9:32:06 GMT -5 @jerrylh said:

I was watching the Seattle Atlanta football game and once again, a time out was called to "FREEZE" the kicker and once again, it backfired. (I have never seen it work in football).

The end of the first half of the Belk Bowl this year was an absolute travesty. Duke readied themselves to attempt a 53-yarder, Cincy had no time outs, so Cincy's coach (seemingly) intentionally carried out an illegal substitution instead: the ball was snapped, Duke's kicker nailed the 53-yarder, a personal best, but the dead-ball foul on the Cincy defense nullified the attempt. The refs spotted Duke 5 yards and the kicker unfortunately couldn't repeat the effort from 48 yards out.

The seams in the college football rulebook are just insane.

[hoyainspirit]

The percentage was in Marquette's favor. Greg shoots 60.6% from the line. That said, good call by Buzz.

[GUJook97]

Jan 15, 2013 11:34:00 GMT -5 RDF said:

Can't compare the sports either--because football wise the team's who take the timeouts are not "freezing" the kicker as much as attempting to set up a play to try and block the kick. Does it work? Rarely-but they want to see the alignment and try and come up with best plan to do this--and with Seattle it made sense because they are one of the best kick blocking teams in NFL. I'd compare it more to late game situation in possession game where team takes a timeout after seeing what set the opponent with the ball has come out of their timeout with rather then a FT situation.

Why do you say this? I dont think that's true at all. Teams call TOs in that situation to mess with the kicker.

[nychoya3]

People have looked at the freezing the kicker play and there's no evidence it makes any difference. Sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't. I don't see why it would be any different with free throws.

[GUJook97]

Oh, I agree, but that is surely why Buzz called TO then, and it's also why Pete Carroll called TO in the Seattle game.

[rockhoya]

Jan 15, 2013 11:59:06 GMT -5 nychoya3 said:

People have looked at the freezing the kicker play and there's no evidence it makes any difference. Sometimes they make it, sometimes they don't. I don't see why it would be any different with free throws.

And Matt Bryant missed the first kick on purpose because he heard the whistle

[SFHoya99]

Biggest difference here is college and pro athletes.

[Boz]

I'm not sure if this thread is replete with confirmation bias, illusory correlation or both.

Probably both. ;D


And this is from the most superstitious person around.

[RDF]

Jan 15, 2013 12:00:05 GMT -5 GUJook97 said:

Oh, I agree, but that is surely why Buzz called TO then, and it's also why Pete Carroll called TO in the Seattle game.

Seattle has one of the best kick blocking units in NFL and Red Bryant is among leaders in blocking field goals. He called the timeout well before Bryant attempted the kick--this wasn't one of those wait until he's ready to kick--whistle had blown well before the ball was snapped and that's why Carroll was upset--why was Bryant allowed to kick when he took the timeout. There are times you freeze a guy--this wasn't one of them--a 49 yd FG attempt is worth changing your alignment to go for the block and many teams do this. Does it work? Rarely but that is the method behind timeout--just as you see basketball teams do this back and forth late in a game--unlike the FT situation.