tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,350
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Post by tashoya on Jan 13, 2013 21:41:30 GMT -5
Depends what you're talking about. In terms of bringing the ball up the floor, DSR gets minutes over Bowen. Defensively, it's Bowen and it's not very close. Offensively, it's a toss-up in my mind with maybe a slight edge to DSR but the aggressiveness of Bowen is something that is lacking on this squad. As far as Hopkins, it's not so much what Moses has shown. It's what Hop hasn't. Moses rebounds well enough to warrant more time than he's been getting when you take into account where Hop is right now. That could and should change (hopefully) moving forward. But, right this second, Moses should get some of Hop's minutes and Bowen should get some of DSR's. My $.02.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by sleepy on Jan 13, 2013 22:01:39 GMT -5
Depends what you're talking about. In terms of bringing the ball up the floor, DSR gets minutes over Bowen. Defensively, it's Bowen and it's not very close. Offensively, it's a toss-up in my mind with maybe a slight edge to DSR but the aggressiveness of Bowen is something that is lacking on this squad. As far as Hopkins, it's not so much what Moses has shown. It's what Hop hasn't. Moses rebounds well enough to warrant more time than he's been getting when you take into account where Hop is right now. That could and should change (hopefully) moving forward. But, right this second, Moses should get some of Hop's minutes and Bowen should get some of DSR's. My $.02. Eh I disagree I think Bowen's defense is pretty poor. Athletic but plays with his hands, has poor positioning, and no instincts. DSR lacks athleticism but his basics and effort have improved tremendously in such a short time. If Freeman, Wright, or Clark had made half the strides he's made in that area in their four years here we would have made it past the first weekend of the tournament a few times.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 13, 2013 22:17:12 GMT -5
Depends what you're talking about. In terms of bringing the ball up the floor, DSR gets minutes over Bowen. Defensively, it's Bowen and it's not very close. Offensively, it's a toss-up in my mind with maybe a slight edge to DSR but the aggressiveness of Bowen is something that is lacking on this squad. As far as Hopkins, it's not so much what Moses has shown. It's what Hop hasn't. Moses rebounds well enough to warrant more time than he's been getting when you take into account where Hop is right now. That could and should change (hopefully) moving forward. But, right this second, Moses should get some of Hop's minutes and Bowen should get some of DSR's. My $.02. Agree completely. Eh I disagree I think Bowen's defense is pretty poor. Athletic but plays with his hands, has poor positioning, and no instincts. DSR lacks athleticism but his basics and effort have improved tremendously in such a short time. If Freeman, Wright, or Clark had made half the strides he's made in that area in their four years here we would have made it past the first weekend of the tournament a few times.
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Hoyaholic
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Hoyaholic on Jan 13, 2013 22:23:23 GMT -5
But, right this second, Moses should get some of Hop's minutes and Bowen should get some of DSR's. My $.02. Agree. I think each pair should split time, perhaps even 50/50, but I don't think it is a no-brainer for Moses to start, or for Bowen to come in ahead of DSR.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 13, 2013 23:23:38 GMT -5
DSR is always a threat from beyond the arc. This kid can shoot. He just needs more time. That is no rap on Bowen, either. I like his darting, flashing style, AKA Reggie Williams.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 13, 2013 23:35:37 GMT -5
My final thought for the day--I just loved Jabril's unflinching demeanor when the player from SJU hit him (deliberately, I think) smack in the face with the ball. Dude's tough!
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 13, 2013 23:40:28 GMT -5
Bowen has hardly played non garbage time minutes in his career. Tough to say. I did like his attempt to dunk on SJU's center though it was turned back in pretty humiliating fashion.
DSR had a solid game that could have been great if he made shots. He can shoot and will start to hit. I still have pretty high hopes for him. I also hate this idea that you have to be an explosive leaper to finish. That's what skills are for, and DSR is a skilled player who needs to trust himself a little more. Most guards aren't Russell Westbrook.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 14, 2013 8:02:39 GMT -5
The increased pace was good for the defense more so than the offense I think. I wish I had a Kempom subscription so I could see the paces of different games this season. Alas... Hoya Prosectus has pace for all Hoya games, as well as sec/possession, and it's free. DSR is always a threat from beyond the arc. This kid can shoot. He just needs more time. That is no rap on Bowen, either. I like his darting, flashing style, AKA Reggie Williams. He has shot poorly from deep thus far this yr, so to say he is a threat may be a reach. His rep is that of a shooter, and Duquesne teased us. I believe that he will shoot the ball better than he has thus far. I hope he becomes the threat you mentioned, because we will be a much better team offensively if he does.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 14, 2013 8:44:57 GMT -5
Have to agree with sleepy's comments concerning DSR & Bowen's defense. Bowen has the same problem Clark had, very quick straight on but is slow in moving laterally. He compounds that liability by getting too close to the man he is guarding which causes him to have to reach and grab or arm bar him when he starts to go by him. DSR is slower of foot than Bowen, but I must say has showed Saturday that he has a better perspective about positioning. By keeping some space between he and his man, he was able to stay between his man and the basket. This worked because other than Harrison, SJ does not have good outside shooters. He would be a liability against guard who could shoot outside shot and had handle to get to the basket. DSR should still be first off the bench, but Bowen has shown he deserves more minutes especially when Hoyas need speed and aggressiveness on offense. I too, loved Jabril's reaction to the guy throwing ball off his face. He was saying "hey, good basketball play, now don't cry when I knock your butt into the stands going for a rebound".
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 14, 2013 12:38:11 GMT -5
DSR had a solid game that could have been great if he made shots. He can shoot and will start to hit. I still have pretty high hopes for him. I also hate this idea that you have to be an explosive leaper to finish. That's what skills are for, and DSR is a skilled player who needs to trust himself a little more. Most guards aren't Russell Westbrook. You all do realize that DSR had 10 rebounds and 4 assists last game. If Starks or Trawick had had 10 rebounds alot of you would be praising him.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 14, 2013 12:57:59 GMT -5
Nothing about this game changed my opinion about DSR:
* Understand the concerns about the defense but that can be made up with smart play, good footwork and team defense. Once again, our best defense (under III) had Wallace, Sapp and Summers as our perimeter defenders.
* Despite being "slow" to most people, he's got a nice first step/set of moves. Between the pump fakes, using screens and stutter, he gets past his man more than anyone else we've got on the team. I'm well aware Markel is quicker -- but DSR is better at seeing opportunities and exploiting them.
* He needs to learn to finish in college. He is shorter and less athletic than some. Versus Pitt he went right at Adams and it didn't work. Against SJU he actually avoided Obekpa pretty well but missed. It's the latter that's going to work but he needs to learn to make those awkward layups like most guards do. He's a freshman -- it's amazing the leash some players get with years of college experience but DSR doesn't get a few games in.
* I think he's a pretty good passer and would likely get more assists if he was the primary ball-handler (not that I'm advocating).
* When he tries -- and it has been an issue for the whole team -- he's a nice rebounder for a guard.
* His stroke looks like it is going to fall eventually. Greg's shooting 30% from three and everyone assumes his will come around but weirdly DSR does not get similar treatment.
Long term, I think of DSR as a Scottie-Reynolds type with a coach who won't let him shoot us out of a game. I hope he can be as effective at times.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 14, 2013 13:01:38 GMT -5
Nothing about this game changed my opinion about DSR: * Understand the concerns about the defense but that can be made up with smart play, good footwork and team defense. Once again, our best defense (under III) had Wallace, Sapp and Summers as our perimeter defenders. * Despite being "slow" to most people, he's got a nice first step/set of moves. Between the pump fakes, using screens and stutter, he gets past his man more than anyone else we've got on the team. I'm well aware Markel is quicker -- but DSR is better at seeing opportunities and exploiting them. * He needs to learn to finish in college. He is shorter and less athletic than some. Versus Pitt he went right at Adams and it didn't work. Against SJU he actually avoided Obekpa pretty well but missed. It's the latter that's going to work but he needs to learn to make those awkward layups like most guards do. He's a freshman -- it's amazing the leash some players get with years of college experience but DSR doesn't get a few games in. * I think he's a pretty good passer and would likely get more assists if he was the primary ball-handler (not that I'm advocating). * When he tries -- and it has been an issue for the whole team -- he's a nice rebounder for a guard. * His stroke looks like it is going to fall eventually. Greg's shooting 30% from three and everyone assumes his will come around but weirdly DSR does not get similar treatment. Long term, I think of DSR as a Scottie-Reynolds type with a coach who won't let him shoot us out of a game. I hope he can be as effective at times. Agreed on all accounts. DSR also does not turn the ball over very much, which helps avoid easy baskets for the other team. I agree on DSR's shooting. The guy was a 90% free throw shooter in high school and a good shooter all around. There is no reason to think that won't come around with a little time. At least in the case of free throw shooting, we know there's no difference between high school and college (aside from pressure). I agree that people tend to give DSR a lot of difficulties, yet they generally give a free pass to Whittington, who has struggled just as much, if not more, this year (and plays a lot more minutes).
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 14, 2013 13:34:06 GMT -5
My final thought for the day--I just loved Jabril's unflinching demeanor when the player from SJU hit him (deliberately, I think) smack in the face with the ball. Dude's tough! Uh yeah, would be nice if the BE had something to say about that to Garrett. I assume Jabril was trash talking the whole game, but that seemed like a fairly obvious intent to injure on that play.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 14, 2013 14:56:19 GMT -5
I agree on DSR's shooting coming around with more games and more PT. His defensive effort looks like it's improving. I'm sure JT3 remembers how pi--ed off he was with Austin's effort and he does not want (or should not want) to go back to it. His 10 rbs and 4 assists point to high bball I.Q. and knowing where to be and how to help the team.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Jan 14, 2013 15:11:14 GMT -5
Uh yeah, would be nice if the BE had something to say about that to Garrett. I assume Jabril was trash talking the whole game, but that seemed like a fairly obvious intent to injure on that play. PE2 did the exact same thing to Harangody. No one complained then.
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Boz
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123 Fireballs!
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Post by Boz on Jan 14, 2013 15:18:51 GMT -5
Uh yeah, would be nice if the BE had something to say about that to Garrett. I assume Jabril was trash talking the whole game, but that seemed like a fairly obvious intent to injure on that play. PE2 did the exact same thing to Harangody. No one complained then. You shut up!
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Post by vahoyafan on Jan 14, 2013 15:24:01 GMT -5
I think the reason people seem to disagree so much on DSR and his play is due to expectations. I think DRS is a role player and will be that throughout his career. It seems that some people were expecting a star player. He does a few things well but most things he is average or below, if he is not shooting wide open jump shots, he is going to struggle scoring.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 14, 2013 15:59:33 GMT -5
Uh yeah, would be nice if the BE had something to say about that to Garrett. I assume Jabril was trash talking the whole game, but that seemed like a fairly obvious intent to injure on that play. PE2 did the exact same thing to Harangody. No one complained then. Is THAT what happened to his nose? I didn't recall. EDIT: anyone have video of this? I need a backup avatar in case this Bowen thing doesn't work out.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 14, 2013 16:33:01 GMT -5
I think the reason people seem to disagree so much on DSR and his play is due to expectations. I think DRS is a role player and will be that throughout his career. It seems that some people were expecting a star player. He does a few things well but most things he is average or below, if he is not shooting wide open jump shots, he is going to struggle scoring. This idea he is only a set shooter is preposterous. He was our primary ball handler against SJU and grabbed 10 rebounds. But all he can do is shoot set shots? Where is this garbage coming from? I think the problem is people are coming to a definitive conclusion after only 14 games and inconsistent playing time. How is that enough time to assess anyone? The problem is there are a few on this board with very hardened preconceived notions about DSR based on what he did or did not do in high school. For me, I wipe the slate clean once a kid is at Georgetown and under JT3 and the staff's tutelage. That is all this really comes down to, those who remain open-minded versus those that have already determined DSR is a bum, which to me is crazy unfair so early in a kid's career.
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DoctorHoya
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Post by DoctorHoya on Jan 14, 2013 17:23:55 GMT -5
I think the reason people seem to disagree so much on DSR and his play is due to expectations. I think DRS is a role player and will be that throughout his career. It seems that some people were expecting a star player. He does a few things well but most things he is average or below, if he is not shooting wide open jump shots, he is going to struggle scoring. This idea he is only a set shooter is preposterous. He was our primary ball handler against SJU and grabbed 10 rebounds. But all he can do is shoot set shots? Where is this garbage coming from? I think the problem is people are coming to a definitive conclusion after only 14 games and inconsistent playing time. How is that enough time to assess anyone? The problem is there are a few on this board with very hardened preconceived notions about DSR based on what he did or did not do in high school. For me, I wipe the slate clean once a kid is at Georgetown and under JT3 and the staff's tutelage. That is all this really comes down to, those who remain open-minded versus those that have already determined DSR is a bum, which to me is crazy unfair so early in a kid's career. Agreed about the premature judgments. Remember that we are posting on a board where 40minutes of a game results in weeks of discussion. We tend to over analyze things.
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